Who else thinks that anyone caught faking their vaccine credentials should be banned from Cruising for life?

[TeeRick]

3 minutes ago, Alakegirl said:

There are too many legal jurisdictions to make any land-based punishment or fines work.  But the cruiselines can certainly ban the offenders who intentionally put all the passengers and crew at risk.  A lifetime ban is reasonable

Yes it is.  I agree.  But I think as I stated in my earlier post that additional stiff fines and penalties are needed since a number of cruisers will not care about a ban for various reasons.

[TeeRick]

How to catch a vaccine forgery?  In the US the CDC cards have vaccine dates and lot numbers.  Perhaps that is a place to start.  Each passenger who is COVID+ during or after a cruise should have their vaccination record checked against these lot numbers.  And random checks of passengers on board.  Yes it sounds like the vaccine police but if there is not a way to check records then it is the honor system at best.

[koolZip]

19 hours ago, need2cruisesoon said:

Please tell me how you or the cruiseline will determine if anyones credentials are real or fake?

Irrelevant to the question posed by the OP. 

But to answer your question, a crudely done fake might be easily discernible.

Edited May 23, 2021 by koolZip
Grammatical error

[cl.klink]

Another sad reality:

 

Some people, who HAVE been vaccinated, will convert to COVID+, and a small number of them will get sick with (usually) mild symptoms. Some of them will incur the wrath of others (surely not on this forum) who will conclude that their vaccination proof was forged. 
 

Just another layer. 
 

- Joel
 

 

Edited May 23, 2021 by cl.klink

[TeeRick]

22 hours ago, cl.klink said:

Another sad reality:

 

Some people, who HAVE been vaccinated, will convert to COVID+, and a small number of them will get sick with (usually) mild symptoms. Some of them will incur the wrath of others (surely not on this forum) who will conclude that their vaccination proof was forged. 
 

Just another layer. 
 

- Joel
 

 

I don't really agree with this.  There will be a percentage of vaccinated people who will become COVID+ as you point out.  This was seen in the clinical trials and in the post-vaccination public data from many countries now.  I think most people know this basic fact and probably most people on a fully vaccinated cruise know this even more.  There is no shame in this and those that deliver "the wrath" to a vaccinated, Covid+ person will be and should be criticized.  It might be a few uninformed people like everything else.  There is no link to the people who actually forge documents.  If a "forger" gets sick too bad for them.  Their documents will be checked (probably after the cruise) and they will be dealt with.

[dogs4fun]

On 5/22/2021 at 9:54 AM, cruisestitch said:

I want the cruise line to institute and enforce such a ban.

Same here - perhaps with a stiff fine if forgeries are found.

[gerelmx]

falsifying vaccination credentials and / or covid tests should be considered a criminal act with attempted murder due to the possibility of voluntarily infecting others. Those who are discovered should have their trips suspended for life and if they already boarded kick them at the next stop.

[sanger727]

On 5/23/2021 at 12:26 AM, Buckeye94 said:

I've seen posts here and on other threads questioning how they would know if documentation was fake or how they would confirm vaccination.  I'm sure someone here has traveled to a destination that required other vaccinations beforehand, e.g. African safari or countries where malaria is prevalent? How was that handled? 

  

There is no vaccine for malaria. There are preventative medications you can take (as in here are 30 days of a pill and during the 30 days you take it you are less likely to contract malaria than if you didn't). But you aren't required to take any preventative medications to travel to a country with malaria. In fact, there are very very few times you are REQUIRED to get a vaccine to travel. The only one I am aware of is yellow fever. People who get the yellow fever vaccine get a paper record that they received it, and no way to verify. So similar to covid in that regard.

 

I don't believe the cruise lines will have the resources to verify covid vaccinations. So they will never know if your record is legit or fraudulent. 

[bizeemom4]

28 minutes ago, sanger727 said:

  

There is no vaccine for malaria. There are preventative medications you can take (as in here are 30 days of a pill and during the 30 days you take it you are less likely to contract malaria than if you didn't). But you aren't required to take any preventative medications to travel to a country with malaria. In fact, there are very very few times you are REQUIRED to get a vaccine to travel. The only one I am aware of is yellow fever. People who get the yellow fever vaccine get a paper record that they received it, and no way to verify. So similar to covid in that regard.

 

I don't believe the cruise lines will have the resources to verify covid vaccinations. So they will never know if your record is legit or fraudulent. 

 

Unless something goes horribly wrong, like Diamond Princess, and then the world would know who faked their cards to get on board. 

[vermonter16]

On 5/22/2021 at 6:05 PM, Fouremco said:

On the other hand, there are many jurisdictions in which the documentation has no government seal or logo, so there would be no similar charge available to punish forgers of these documents. 

I was in the vaccine trials and unfortunately, my vaccine has not been approved by the CDC but has been distributed in other countries.  My vaccine card says it has not been approved by the CDC for emergency use.....  So, where does that leave me?  I don't know quite yet.  But, I do have a legit vaccine.

[dallasdan]

First, there is no way to know who faked their vaccine cards and who didn't .  So if a vaccinated person gets sick with Covid do we make them walk the plank because they cannot prove they were vaccinated.  This is a slipper slope of mob mentality.

 

How many people on this thread lied on their health questionaries' back in the day.  Should you have been banned for life?

 

[Orator]

All new builds and additions to older ships should include a plank at the bow.

[wrk2cruise]

53 minutes ago, dallasdan said:

First, there is no way to know who faked their vaccine cards and who didn't .

 

While they may be easy to forge I don't think it's impossible to verify.

 

54 minutes ago, dallasdan said:

How many people on this thread lied on their health questionaries' back in the day.  Should you have been banned for life?

 

Yes.  That sort of blatant disregard for others health would deserve that penalty in my opinion.   Would be different if they didn't ask.

[Baron Barracuda]

3 hours ago, TeeRick said:

I don't really agree with this.  There will be a percentage of vaccinated people who will become COVID+ as you point out.  This was seen in the clinical trials and in the post-vaccination public data from many countries now.  I think most people know this basic fact and probably most people on a fully vaccinated cruise know this even more.  There is no shame in this and those that deliver "the wrath" to a vaccinated, Covid+ person will be and should be criticized.  It might be a few uninformed people like everything else.  There is no link to the people who actually forge documents.  If a "forger" gets sick too bad for them.  Their documents will be checked (probably after the cruise) and they will be dealt with.

When treating "forgers" ship's sick bay should quadruple their already shockingly high treatment rates and their travel insurance should be invalidated.

[MrCruzdoggie]

They should have to buy a round for the whole ship. 

[Orator]

11 minutes ago, MrCruzdoggie said:

They should have to buy a round for the whole ship. 

AI renders this meaningless unless they mandate a drink that will go significantly over the premium price.

Edited May 24, 2021 by Orator

[Denny01]

1 hour ago, dallasdan said:

First, there is no way to know who faked their vaccine cards and who didn't .  So if a vaccinated person gets sick with Covid do we make them walk the plank because they cannot prove they were vaccinated.  This is a slipper slope of mob mentality.

 

How many people on this thread lied on their health questionaries' back in the day.  Should you have been banned for life?

 

dallasdan, you should remember the term ‘tongue-in-cheek’ with some of the comments. My ‘input’ would be a Navy response to lying at this level, and can still be done when at sea: Bread and Water in the Brig for 3 days…..and Marines are the Brig guards and all of us Navy guys Know how much the Marines just Love swabbies. 

 

But no way of knowing? I’d assume someone so ignorant that they’d not get a shot and then fake a shot card so they can cruise wouldn’t be able to keep from ‘sharing’ their stupidity…..and I’d nail them as soon as I heard. And that isn’t mob mentality, that is taking care of our community and protecting it from criminals. 

 

Enough. Comparing using a fake vaccine card isn’t quite the same as not saying I had a cough prior to boarding. Both are wrong, but that is more than a stretch, that’s an excuse to defend the indefensible. 

 

den

[Orator]

1 hour ago, dallasdan said:

First, there is no way to know who faked their vaccine cards and who didn't .  So if a vaccinated person gets sick with Covid do we make them walk the plank because they cannot prove they were vaccinated.  This is a slipper slope of mob mentality.

 

How many people on this thread lied on their health questionaries' back in the day.  Should you have been banned for life?

 

They could check the card for bamboo content.

[MamaFej]

I'm going to give my fellow humans the benefit of the doubt and postulate that the vast, vast majority of Covid vaccine documents presented will be genuine. Cruiselines could choose to randomly spot check a small percentage of cards (like schools do for reduced preice or free lunches). 

 

If the lot number matches the shot location, it's "Have a nice cruise." If not, "Buh bye."

 

If someone became symptomatic, check their document. After verifying the lot number matches the location (as a good fake would) contact the adminisering agency and make sure that the person is in their records. If they are, "Bummer, I guess you're one of the small percentage for whom it didn't work as well. Let's treat your sympotoms and keep you away from others." If they aren't: release the full power of whatever the consequences are upon them. 

 

It would take some effort, but it would certainly not be impossible, with a miniscule number of possible exceptions. I've made sure that my information is verifiable, and I'm thinking that most others would as well, especially if the consequences were made clear upfront. 

[CroozFanatic]

After the genius that works for the cruise line determines that we have a hot one (fake card)... 

 

The situation is almost always going to be "BUT I DID GET VACCINATED."

 

And, now you do what? 

 

[Fouremco]

1 hour ago, vermonter16 said:

I was in the vaccine trials and unfortunately, my vaccine has not been approved by the CDC but has been distributed in other countries.  My vaccine card says it has not been approved by the CDC for emergency use.....  So, where does that leave me?  I don't know quite yet.  But, I do have a legit vaccine.

Proof of vaccination aside, I'd enquire with my doctor whether the vaccine is deemed effective, even if not approved in the US, and if not, would there be any harm in receiving an approved vaccine now or in the near future.

 

Another thought: is the vaccine approved in any country? If so, Celebrity would presumably accept proof of having received vaccine "X" as sufficient to board. In which case, your proof of having received it should suffice, the "not approved" wording notwithstanding.

[Fouremco]

6 minutes ago, CroozFanatic said:

After the genius that works for the cruise line determines that we have a hot one (fake card)... 

 

The situation is almost always going to be "BUT I DID GET VACCINATED."

 

And, now you do what? 

 

Follow whatever policy is in place for passengers failing to provide proof. The passenger hasn't provided the necessary proof and the verbal claim is meaningless. 

[CalTexCruiser]

1 hour ago, Orator said:

All new builds and additions to older ships should include a plank at the bow.

 

Or on the Retreat sundeck.

 

Added Suite class perk: watch forgers walk the plank at 4pm each afternoon on sea days, while our butlers serve drinks with afternoon snacks.

[CroozFanatic]

8 minutes ago, Fouremco said:

Follow whatever policy is in place for passengers failing to provide proof. The passenger hasn't provided the necessary proof and the verbal claim is meaningless. 

 

You didn't understand the point. Without a back-end database to authenticate, the situation is unworkable. Maybe the guy smells funny...must be a fake card. Maybe he's got his hair wrapped in a towel...must be a fake card.

[DandDM]

52 minutes ago, CroozFanatic said:

After the genius that works for the cruise line determines that we have a hot one (fake card)... 

 

The situation is almost always going to be "BUT I DID GET VACCINATED."

 

And, now you do what? 

 

This reminds me of a college house mate from a long time ago.  He forged a season ski pass (poorly) and was busted by the ski resort.  When confronted with legal action, he made up a long story about buying it from one of their employees at an event.  The ski resort banned him, but never pressed charges...in hind sight, regardless of his elaborate lie, I bet their practice was to scare the kids they caught and rarely took legal action.

 

Nonetheless, after this went down, other roommates and I asked the guy to move out at the end of the semester and we just didn't trust living with him any longer (he was also a bit of a jerk...)