Who else thinks that anyone caught faking their vaccine credentials should be banned from Cruising for life?

[phoenix_dream]

1 hour ago, need2cruisesoon said:

Please tell me how you or the cruiseline will determine if anyones credentials are real or fake?

That remains to be seen, depending on how they plan to verify results.  I do agree that right now there are so many different procedures worldwide it would indeed be difficult.

[spiritkat090909]

A ban for life? Is that all?  Support the DEATH penalty?...that is the next step, you know.  WTH happened to due process and laws?  Or innocent until proven guilty?  I don't get it... your vax protects you doesn't it?  According to..Fauci!

 

Don't want unvaxed on your precious vacation, then get the laws changed accordingly. But, the mob mentality throw them overboard is ridiculous.  The darn thing is supposed to protect YOU!  What are you so afraid of?!  Dying yourself?  We all get there eventually.... where you go after death...is that the real fear?

[cruisestitch]

Huge leap from not letting someone go on another cruise to supporting a death penalty? That is “reductio ad absurdum” at its worst.

 

And if you think cruise lines abide by innocent until proven guilty, you have never taken a look at your cruise contract. They have pretty much absolute rights on their ships to do as they see fit.

 

[excitedofharpenden]

I do sometimes feel I've stepped straight into the Twilight Zone with some thread replies on this board 😳

 

Phil 

[cscurlock]

4 minutes ago, cruisestitch said:

Huge leap from not letting someone go on another cruise to supporting a death penalty? That is “reductio ad absurdum” at its worst.

 

And if you think cruise lines abide by innocent until proven guilty, you have never taken a look at your cruise contract. They have pretty much absolute rights on their ships to do as they see fit.

 

They are foreign powers at sea.  So yeah they can do pretty much whatever they want except rules that are mandated so they can port somewhere.  Although death is one of those weird exception rules where courts can take action.  

[WestLakeGirl]

Try striking a cruise employee and see how the process plays out. You’ll be confined to your room at first and and then put off the ship ASAP.

Edited May 22, 2021 by WestLakeGirl

[WonderMan3]

5 hours ago, WestLakeGirl said:

Anyone else share this opinion?

100% agree

[C-Dragons]

9 minutes ago, spiritkat090909 said:

 

Don't want unvaxed on your precious vacation, then get the laws changed accordingly. But, the mob mentality throw them overboard is ridiculous.  The darn thing is supposed to protect YOU!  What are you so afraid of?!  Dying yourself?  We all get there eventually.... where you go after death...is that the real fear?

A little over dramatic perhaps? Some of the remarks you refer to were made tongue in cheek, Imo.

 

X's Terms and Conditions cover the current rules and requirements for all booked passengers.

If any adult chooses not to be vaccinated, they are making the choice not to sail. 

[cangelmd]

Sounds good, but proving it will be impossible.

As I have said before, even with cheaters it will be safer than be at home, at least for me, because the large majority of people won't cheat and will be vaccinated. I'm willing to take the risk of the amount of virus circulating on the mostly vaccinated ship.

 

how about this - cheaters get caught, they get vaccinated.

[ipeeinthepool]

Just now, cangelmd said:

Sounds good, but proving it will be impossible.

As I have said before, even with cheaters it will be safer than be at home, at least for me, because the large majority of people won't cheat and will be vaccinated. I'm willing to take the risk of the amount of virus circulating on the mostly vaccinated ship.

 

how about this - cheaters get caught, they get vaccinated.

 

Maybe the best suggestion.  You win Post of the Day. 😀

[Fouremco]

1 minute ago, cangelmd said:

Sounds good, but proving it will be impossible.

As I have said before, even with cheaters it will be safer than be at home, at least for me, because the large majority of people won't cheat and will be vaccinated. I'm willing to take the risk of the amount of virus circulating on the mostly vaccinated ship.

 

how about this - cheaters get caught, they get vaccinated.

I'm not sure about impossible, but certainly difficult. Quite frankly, I think that Celebrity's embarkation staff will look at whatever document passengers present and, unless something jumps out at them as clearly fraudulent, will make no effort to challenge passengers. I also don't think that there will be more than a very small handful of potential cheats, and if I'm vaccinated and the vast majority of other passengers are vaccinated, I too am willing to take the risk.

 

Anyone caught at embarkation should be refused boarding, denied a refund and banned for a period of time, maybe in the three to five year range. If caught once underway,  confined to their cabin or placed in the brig for the duration, no refund and banned.

[C-Dragons]

It's 15 pages long, but here are a couple of items of note from the Passenger Contract for my upcoming X cruise:
 

c.    COVID-19 Policies and Procedures. Passenger understands that Carrier’s COVID-19 Policies and Procedures may or will include (but are not be limited to): (1) providing an accurate, truthful and complete health questionnaire in a form and containing any and all health or travel-related questions as required by Carrier in its sole discretion, for each Passenger prior to boarding

 

d.      Mandatory Compliance with COVID-19 Policies and Procedures. Notwithstanding any other provision contained herein or in Carrier’s Refund Policy, any noncompliance by Passenger or members of Passenger’s travelling party with Carrier’s COVID-19 Policies and Procedures or this Ticket Contract shall be grounds for refusal to board, refusal to reboard after going ashore, quarantine onboard the Vessel, disembarkation, reporting to governmental or health authorities, or other steps deemed necessary in Carrier’s sole discretion under the circumstances to protect the health and well-being of others. Under these circumstances, Passenger shall not be entitled to a refund or compensation of any kind. Passenger will be responsible for all related costs and fines, including without limitation travel expenses and for proper travel documentation for any port, or for departure from or arrival to Passenger’s country of residence. Under no circumstances shall Carrier be liable for any damages or expenses whatsoever incurred by any Passenger as a result of such denial of boarding, refusal to re-board, quarantine, disembarkation, or other steps taken by Carrier.

[nocl]

5 hours ago, mom says said:

I agree with this. It might be an idea to have federal laws similar to those about forged passports. Make it a criminal offense with a high fine and possible jail time. Or maybe it could be pursued under current fraud laws.

There already is.  Since the CDC card has a government logo on it, any forgery on such a card is considered to be misuse of a federal seal and is punishable by  fine of $5,000 and up to 5 years in jail.

[Lastdance]

40 minutes ago, Fouremco said:

I'm not sure about impossible, but certainly difficult. Quite frankly, I think that Celebrity's embarkation staff will look at whatever document passengers present and, unless something jumps out at them as clearly fraudulent, will make no effort to challenge passengers. I also don't think that there will be more than a very small handful of potential cheats, and if I'm vaccinated and the vast majority of other passengers are vaccinated, I too am willing to take the risk.

 

Anyone caught at embarkation should be refused boarding, denied a refund and banned for a period of time, maybe in the three to five year range. If caught once underway,  confined to their cabin or placed in the brig for the duration, no refund and banned.

I agree with passengers being denied boarding if their information and paperwork does not meet Celebrity's standards, along with taking them off the ship if they are found out to be in violation of ship's rules.  Knowing whether it is fraudulant or not is another question.  Turning passengers away who are not forthcoming with being truthful will hopefully mean that others will get the message.  Anyway, having a vaccination, IMHO, makes me feel a lot better getting onboard a cruise ship, so I understand what is at stake.  Nothing is perfect, but life needs to go on with cruising being a choice for all of us.  I will gladly follow the rules and take precautions as I feel are necessary for me.  It's time!!!

Edited May 22, 2021 by Lastdance

[Fouremco]

5 minutes ago, nocl said:

There already is.  Since the CDC card has a government logo on it, any forgery on such a card is considered to be misuse of a federal seal and is punishable by  fine of $5,000 and up to 5 years in jail.

On the other hand, there are many jurisdictions in which the documentation has no government seal or logo, so there would be no similar charge available to punish forgers of these documents. 

[nocl]

2 hours ago, Fouremco said:

On the other hand, there are many jurisdictions in which the documentation has no government seal or logo, so there would be no similar charge available to punish forgers of these documents. 

Again I was referring to US law and the US documentation since clearly the CDC card is only relevant to those that received their vaccination in the US.

[Fouremco]

6 minutes ago, nocl said:

Again I was referring to US law and the US documentation since clearly the CDC card is only relevant to those that received their vaccination in the US.

Exactly my point. This thread is about faking vaccinations, not just US vaccinations. The suggestion made by @mom says would cover forged documents in all cases, not just those involving CDC cards. 

[mom says]

4 hours ago, spiritkat090909 said:

A ban for life? Is that all?  Support the DEATH penalty?...that is the next step, you know.  WTH happened to due process and laws?  Or innocent until proven guilty?  I don't get it... your vax protects you doesn't it?  According to..Fauci!

 

Don't want unvaxed on your precious vacation, then get the laws changed accordingly. But, the mob mentality throw them overboard is ridiculous.  The darn thing is supposed to protect YOU!  What are you so afraid of?!  Dying yourself?  We all get there eventually.... where you go after death...is that the real fear?

What did you not understand about the topic of this thread? The subject is not vaxx or no vaxx. The subject is what to do about the disgusting fraudsters who forge a vaccination document in order to board a cruise. What kind of person knowingly commits an illegal act like that? And never mind any risk to other cruisers who ARE vaccinated; what about these cheaters possibly carrying the virus and infecting unprotected people in their ports of call? I'll tell you what kind of people they are- amoral, narcissistic, sociopaths who only care about themselves.

 

 

Gee, did that sound a bit harsh? Sorry, not sorry.

Edited May 23, 2021 by mom says

[Buckeye94]

I've seen posts here and on other threads questioning how they would know if documentation was fake or how they would confirm vaccination.  I'm sure someone here has traveled to a destination that required other vaccinations beforehand, e.g. African safari or countries where malaria is prevalent? How was that handled? 

[K.T.B.]

11 hours ago, TeeRick said:

Would ban for life be as meaningful as a very high fine and possibly criminal charges?  A ban for life is not very meaningful if you were on your first cruise or are not a frequent cruiser.  Of course a ban for life for the few percent of cruisers that are Cruise Critic members would be quite a penalty.  But the majority of cruise passengers are not CC members and are not frequent cruisers.  So I am more in favor of very stiff financial penalties if caught.

[K.T.B.]

8 hours ago, spiritkat090909 said:

A ban for life? Is that all?  Support the DEATH penalty?...that is the next step, you know.  WTH happened to due process and laws?  Or innocent until proven guilty?  I don't get it... your vax protects you doesn't it?  According to..Fauci!

 

Don't want unvaxed on your precious vacation, then get the laws changed accordingly. But, the mob mentality throw them overboard is ridiculous.  The darn thing is supposed to protect YOU!  What are you so afraid of?!  Dying yourself?  We all get there eventually.... where you go after death...is that the real fear?

 

The thing is, if you have numerous people on board unvaccinated, we all run the risk of our cruise being cancelled and being returned to port immediately.  So thousands of people should have to pay the price because a few dozen yahoos decide they wanted to fake their way on board and get sick from Covid.  Yeah, people who are vaccinated are mostly protected, but it seems we now need to be protected for cheats.

[Gracie115]

13 hours ago, cangelmd said:

 how about this - cheaters get caught, they get vaccinated.

 

This would never happen, but I love the idea....I have a picture in my mind of someone kicking & screaming being held down by several crew members (gloves & masks on of course) while Nurse Ratched sticks the needle in his/her arm. Followed by tossing them in the brig for the rest of the cruise while they wait for the vaccine to take full effect. 

[DWhit]

I would ban for life only if they also bring on their untrained pet and declare it an emotional support service dog 😋

[bizeemom4]

I think they should be yeeted off the ship and then banned forever. Also, prison time or a hefty fine for the felony.

[Alakegirl]

There are too many legal jurisdictions to make any land-based punishment or fines work.  But the cruiselines can certainly ban the offenders who intentionally put all the passengers and crew at risk.  A lifetime ban is reasonable