Who else thinks that anyone caught faking their vaccine credentials should be banned from Cruising for life?

[cantstopingcruising]

1 hour ago, K.T.B. said:

 

While not wholly incorrect, it's been proven that it's highly unlikely a vaccinated person can spread Covid.  

I know of one case

[K.T.B.]

1 hour ago, cantstopingcruising said:

I know of one case

 

One.  Out of tens of millions who have been vaccinated.

 

Good odds.

[iancal]

Being baned from one cruise line is not enough.

 

I would suggest a criminal charge with a corresponding large fine, plus  cancellation  of their speedy border pass if applicable.

 

And....... a choice of either  walking the  plank, being keel hauled,  or 40 lashes with the cat'o'nine tails.

Edited May 27, 2021 by iancal

[Denny01]

With the announcement that the Edge will be cruising out of Ft Lauderdale starting 26 June, and all passengers (>16yold) and crew must be  vaccinated, and masks not required, it looks like somewhere along the way some idiot who lied will get caught and we’ll all know what the consequences are.

 

With all of this info, it seems more than a few of the popular threads here will die away. 

 

Celebrity is starting cruising, and out of a US port; The Fla silliness of trying to block private companies protecting their customer and themselves is moot; masks aren’t required; somebody who didn’t get vaccinated will get caught somewhere along the way and all our Very Important questions will be answered (my Bread and Water in a Brig will probably not happen..darn).

 

I guess I’ll sign off this thread unless something comes up that’ll be fun to respond to. We can start posting about actually cruising and how to enjoy a wonderful vacation. 

 

Den 

[Pinboy]

Pages and pages and pages on the same thing---

Be smart ---get the vaccine, protect yourself and others, never mind that " I got my rights " BS---

So, if you need to prove you've been vaccinated, big deal-- show your proof.

It will take less effort than getting a fake document and " sweating bullets " throughout the whole cruise hoping you don't get caught.

It's getting extremely frustrating reading some of the nonsense comments posted lately on CC.

Yea, I know---- " You don't like it----- Bye Bye "

 

[amypet]

They might just ban (cancel) themselves right of the planet so we won't have to worry about them.🤷‍♀️

[cantstopingcruising]

3 hours ago, K.T.B. said:

 

One.  Out of tens of millions who have been vaccinated.

 

Good odds.

Silly. There are others. I know personally of one case. I  don't know that many people personally

[cscurlock]

Life is a long time for some people.  I would say 5 years.  

[nevadajack]

Cruising is probably the best test for the vaccines....  It will be interesting to see if any 100% "vaccinated" cruises have any Covid cases......

[cangelmd]

11 hours ago, cantstopingcruising said:

I know of one case

Fascinating - was the vaccinated person ill? How did they know they had Covid? Did the person who caught Covid get sick? Was the first person 2 full weeks post second shot (or post J and J).

[K.T.B.]

10 hours ago, cantstopingcruising said:

Silly. There are others. I know personally of one case. I  don't know that many people personally

 

You said you know of one case, not that you personally know of one case.  Huge difference in how that's perceived.  

 

Regardless, they're still learning how well the vaccines protect us.  Direct quote from HERE:  "Early data show that vaccines help keep people with no symptoms from spreading COVID-19, but we are learning more as more people get vaccinated."

[Alakegirl]

Now is the time to come back to the original issue.  With Cruising starting up, What should be the appropriate response/punishment/outcome for someone caught faking their vaccine credentials?

 

I say that the cruise line banishes them, keeping them off cruise ships forever for their deceit.

[cantstopingcruising]

4 hours ago, cangelmd said:

Fascinating - was the vaccinated person ill? How did they know they had Covid? Did the person who caught Covid get sick? Was the first person 2 full weeks post second shot (or post J and J).

I will tell you all I know. This was a friend of a friend. The husband was vaccinated. The wife and child were not. The wife and child were not exposed to anyone except the husband. The wife and child got Covid. So they tested the husband and lo and behold he tested positive even though he had no symptoms.

[graphicguy]

56 minutes ago, Alakegirl said:

Now is the time to come back to the original issue.  With Cruising starting up, What should be the appropriate response/punishment/outcome for someone caught faking their vaccine credentials?

 

I say that the cruise line banishes them, keeping them off cruise ships forever for their deceit.

My TA, who's been doing this for a long time, even during the shutdown, has said most cruise lines will take a hard line on fake CDC government issued COVID vaccine cards.  They would deny the culprit to embark on the ship and the passenger would forfeit their cruise fare, given they didn't board.  Plus, their information would be shared with the local authorities.  There's already been some prosecutions based on selling and buying fake  CDC COVID vaccines.

 

I guess some will try.  But seriously, you want to risk thousands of dollars in cruise fare and prosecution just to board a ship with a fake CDC COVID ID?

[MamaFej]

Why do the vaccinated care whether  others are vaccinated? Here are a few of the myriad reasons:

 

1) The vast majority of us are not selfish people who only care about ourselves. We care about our fellow human beings. We want to live on a planet that is as healthy as possible.

 

2) We are well-informed enough to know that every time the virus spreads, it replicates. Every time it replicates, it has the opportunity to mutate into something even more contagious and harmful, further endangering our fellow earthlings and their economies.

 

3) We know that when our healthcare professionals and facilities are overwhelmed, or even just occupied, with Covid patients, they aren't focused on other healthcare needs. Cancer and other screenings are delayed, treatments are deferred, etc. This increases healthcare costs for all of us, and leads to worse outcomes for those whose diagnoses are delayed.

 

4) We care about children and young people. As older folks become vaccinated, and more things open, the virus (for lack of a better term) focuses on more and more younger folks. Of course, it then has the chance to mutate into something more dangerous for them and others. Children of anti-vaxxers or the vaccine-hesitant should not suffer because of their parents being misinformed, neither should the children who are not yet eligible, whose parents will/would have them vaccinated as soon as possible.

 

5) We would like our medical and scientific professionals who have done such an amazing job treating and trying to prevent Covid infections, many of them dying or becoming longhauers along the way, to be able to focus their expertise on other medical issues. Those who refuse to help end this pandemic are actively choosing to prolong it. 

 

6) We want our businesses and economies to get back on track. Those who refuse to help end this pandemic are actively choosing to prolong it. By prolonging it, they are delaying economic growth that benefits more than the billionaires who've become richer during the pandemic, but benefits all of us.

 

7) We want the world to be a better place for all of us. We want to bring this pandemic to an end, not prolong it. 

 

8) We understand that the vaccines were developed by experts who have dedicated their lives and careers to the health of others. We paid enough attention to understand that they aren't "untested" (they have been extensively tested). We understand that corners were not cut (time between stages was cut) etc. We understand that the technology has been in deveopment for decades, that the deliberately missing piece was the spike protein and that this technology can also be used in the future.

 

The very idea that those of us who want good health, good healthcare, and healthy economies for all of humanity should not care if the unvaccinated continue to get sick and die is abhorrent and says far more about people who think we shouldn't care about anyone but ourselves than it does about us. 

 

Those who refuse to help end this pandemic are actively choosing to prolong it. 

 

Etc., etc., etc.

 

 

[mom says]

@MamaFej- I think you just won the Internet today. 👍👍

Edited May 27, 2021 by mom says

[cangelmd]

2 hours ago, cantstopingcruising said:

I will tell you all I know. This was a friend of a friend. The husband was vaccinated. The wife and child were not. The wife and child were not exposed to anyone except the husband. The wife and child got Covid. So they tested the husband and lo and behold he tested positive even though he had no symptoms.

Thanks for responding.

[cantstopingcruising]

7 minutes ago, cangelmd said:

Thanks for responding.

You are welcome!

[Catherine Janaway]

4 hours ago, cantstopingcruising said:

I will tell you all I know. This was a friend of a friend. The husband was vaccinated. The wife and child were not. The wife and child were not exposed to anyone except the husband. The wife and child got Covid. So they tested the husband and lo and behold he tested positive even though he had no symptoms.

I think you ought to research the vaccine a little more. While it does give you protection from the virus it is not 100% BUT it reduces the chances of death or serious symptoms.

 

I wish people generally knew facts before they posted misinformation.

 

This is not aimed at you specifically but generally people just don't know the full facts and as they say a little knowledge is a dangerous thing.

 

If you had 4 people in a room and only 2 had been vaccinated it would obviously obviously be less effective than if all 4 had been vaccinated.

 

All this is just common sense, basic common sense.

 

Edited May 27, 2021 by Catherine Janaway

[nocl]

9 hours ago, cangelmd said:

Fascinating - was the vaccinated person ill? How did they know they had Covid? Did the person who caught Covid get sick? Was the first person 2 full weeks post second shot (or post J and J).

I will fall back on the UK study that was specifically sent up to look at transmission from vaccinated individuals that have been fully vaccinated with AZ or Pfizer.  It looked at a large number (in the thousands) of households and compared the spread between those households where the initial infection was a vaccinated individual, compared to where the initial infection was a person that was not vaccinated.

 

That study did show that the spread by vaccinated individuals to others in the household was reduced by 40-50% compared to unvaccinated individuals.

 

As such I would not depend very much on the claim that an ill vaccinated individual cannot spread the virus to unvaccinated individuals, as much as the vaccine keeps them from getting infected in the first place.

 

The tests measuring the about of virus shed by vaccinated vs unvaccinated individuals showed that the amount of virus shed was reduced by 75%.  The problem is that there is now good measurement about the amount of virus needed for transmission.  So while the reduction would indicate that a vaccinated individual should be less infectious, it does not say that they are not infectious.

[jagoffee]

7 hours ago, nocl said:

I will fall back on the UK study that was specifically sent up to look at transmission from vaccinated individuals that have been fully vaccinated with AZ or Pfizer.  It looked at a large number (in the thousands) of households and compared the spread between those households where the initial infection was a vaccinated individual, compared to where the initial infection was a person that was not vaccinated.

 

That study did show that the spread by vaccinated individuals to others in the household was reduced by 40-50% compared to unvaccinated individuals.

 

As such I would not depend very much on the claim that an ill vaccinated individual cannot spread the virus to unvaccinated individuals, as much as the vaccine keeps them from getting infected in the first place.

 

The tests measuring the about of virus shed by vaccinated vs unvaccinated individuals showed that the amount of virus shed was reduced by 75%.  The problem is that there is now good measurement about the amount of virus needed for transmission.  So while the reduction would indicate that a vaccinated individual should be less infectious, it does not say that they are not infectious.

But enough for the CDC to say it is “highly unlikely”, correct?

[nocl]

17 minutes ago, jagoffee said:

But enough for the CDC to say it is “highly unlikely”, correct?

It depends.  If you look at the entire vaccinated population and look at the odds of a person first getting infected (reduced by over 90%) and then passing the virus on, then is is unlikely, largely because of the odds of the person getting infected in the first place.  This is what I believe is how the CDC is looking at it. Especially since with cases now down to less than 25,000 per day the odds of someone that is vaccinated encountering an infected individual, in order to get infected, the vaccine efficacy ,and the odds of them encountering another individual that has either not been vaccinated or been previous infected, would make transmission highly unlikely from an vaccinated individual today.

 

On the other hand if you start with an infected vaccinated person, then the UK data indicates that the risk of transmission in particular settings is only reduced by 50% than no it is not highly unlikely that the infected vaccinated will infect someone else.

 

All depend upon the definition you  are starting with.

Edited May 28, 2021 by nocl

[songbird1329]

On 5/26/2021 at 9:29 AM, ch175 said:

The government would be spending billions(?) of dollars to build a database. Are you actually naive enough to believe covid vaccination info would be the only thing ever stored in it?

 

Did you pay income tax?  Do you have a driver’s license?  A passport? Then the government knows a lot about you a,ready.

[Ride-The-Waves]

6 hours ago, songbird1329 said:

Did you pay income tax?  Do you have a driver’s license?  A passport? Then the government knows a lot about you a,ready.

...and "the government" doesn't care.  The government is us.  The "private sector," however, is out to get your ever last dollar, pound, shekel, dinar, whatever and leave you in their debt forever.

[graphicguy]

19 hours ago, MamaFej said:

Why do the vaccinated care whether  others are vaccinated? Here are a few of the myriad reasons:

 

1) The vast majority of us are not selfish people who only care about ourselves. We care about our fellow human beings. We want to live on a planet that is as healthy as possible.

 

2) We are well-informed enough to know that every time the virus spreads, it replicates. Every time it replicates, it has the opportunity to mutate into something even more contagious and harmful, further endangering our fellow earthlings and their economies.

 

3) We know that when our healthcare professionals and facilities are overwhelmed, or even just occupied, with Covid patients, they aren't focused on other healthcare needs. Cancer and other screenings are delayed, treatments are deferred, etc. This increases healthcare costs for all of us, and leads to worse outcomes for those whose diagnoses are delayed.

 

4) We care about children and young people. As older folks become vaccinated, and more things open, the virus (for lack of a better term) focuses on more and more younger folks. Of course, it then has the chance to mutate into something more dangerous for them and others. Children of anti-vaxxers or the vaccine-hesitant should not suffer because of their parents being misinformed, neither should the children who are not yet eligible, whose parents will/would have them vaccinated as soon as possible.

 

5) We would like our medical and scientific professionals who have done such an amazing job treating and trying to prevent Covid infections, many of them dying or becoming longhauers along the way, to be able to focus their expertise on other medical issues. Those who refuse to help end this pandemic are actively choosing to prolong it. 

 

6) We want our businesses and economies to get back on track. Those who refuse to help end this pandemic are actively choosing to prolong it. By prolonging it, they are delaying economic growth that benefits more than the billionaires who've become richer during the pandemic, but benefits all of us.

 

7) We want the world to be a better place for all of us. We want to bring this pandemic to an end, not prolong it. 

 

8) We understand that the vaccines were developed by experts who have dedicated their lives and careers to the health of others. We paid enough attention to understand that they aren't "untested" (they have been extensively tested). We understand that corners were not cut (time between stages was cut) etc. We understand that the technology has been in deveopment for decades, that the deliberately missing piece was the spike protein and that this technology can also be used in the future.

 

The very idea that those of us who want good health, good healthcare, and healthy economies for all of humanity should not care if the unvaccinated continue to get sick and die is abhorrent and says far more about people who think we shouldn't care about anyone but ourselves than it does about us. 

 

Those who refuse to help end this pandemic are actively choosing to prolong it. 

 

Etc., etc., etc.

 

 

Thank you for stating eloquently the crux of the matter.  What a great post.