FORCED DISEMBARKATION

[K32682]

15 minutes ago, klfrodo said:

So, what I'm hearing is that it's more about you and the other 2500 passengers and crew can fend (or not) for themselves.

 

Already confirmed in post #11. 

 

On 8/11/2022 at 11:27 AM, K32682 said:

The fact is there are times you can expect people to put their own personal interests ahead of vague fretting about "public health." If the choice is testing positive and being dumped in a locale not of your choosing or avoiding a test because of the possibility of testing positive and staying onboard don't be too shocked and appalled if people take the second option. 

 

[ontheweb]

14 hours ago, CPT Trips said:

So far. But nobody knows how the virus will mutate going forward.

It is called survival of the fittest. If a virus mutates toward being more deadly, it would kill off its hosts and not survive. What this virus is doing by becoming more contagious but less deadly is exactly what the model says it would do to survive.

[jsn55]

5 hours ago, d9704011 said:

What is the scary thing to you?  The virus or the hysteria?  Now I don't know whether you think the virus concern is what people may be considering when deciding what to do or the hysteria has taken over and tainted rational decision-making.

The following is my opinion, so nobody should feel that it has to be critiqued; it's just my opinion.  I am 'old' but have always enjoyed extremely good health, so my view is skewed by that fact.  I contracted the virus in Wuhan November 2019, when nobody even knew that it existed.  I just had it again 3 weeks ago.  It was miserable, but not scary.  The virus gives most people a 'bad cold' with some other annoying symptoms.  People who are frail and/or not in robust health should be scared of a virus they might catch on a trip, and they probably shouldn't travel.  The bureaucrats and politicians preventing everyone from doing anything for 2+ years was a hysterical reaction to the virus.  People are scared to get sick while travelling with good reason.  We were scheduled to come home a week after Wuhan, and I was scared of having to stay in China until I was well.  If a cruise ship can disembark you in a port with less than good health care, that's scary.  Being quarantined in a cabin for two weeks is scary.  As a reminder, the above is not right or wrong, it's just my opinion.

[CPT Trips]

48 minutes ago, ontheweb said:

It is called survival of the fittest. If a virus mutates toward being more deadly, it would kill off its hosts and not survive. What this virus is doing by becoming more contagious but less deadly is exactly what the model says it would do to survive.

Not always . . . it’s not a given. See HIV, hepatitis, several strains of flu, West Nile, Ebola, and Zika. 

One of many articles pointing out that “the model” isn’t universally as you assert. . https://apnews.com/article/fact-checking-011488089270 

A literature search would lead to tons of articles the hows and whys tip-off viruses evolving to be more or less lethal to their hosts (both human and not human).

[LHT28]

17 hours ago, K32682 said:

 

We aren't talking heart attacks. We are talking COVID and there are examples of passengers who test positive being put off and left to fend for themselves. Therefore, I am not going to run to be tested should I come down with symptoms that are mild but might be COVID. 

I have not heard of  people being  taken off the ship  & left there  ..

[klfrodo]

5 hours ago, K32682 said:

 

Already confirmed in post #11. 

 

 

well, that's how pandemics start. When infected people don't give a damn about others and only worry about themselves.

[jwattle]

On 8/11/2022 at 4:29 AM, whogo said:

I would think the port would want you to stay on the ship and get your sick self away from their city. It is the cruise ship that would put you off. I don't know about COVID, but passengers have been transferred to hospitals ashore when the cruise ship is unable or unwilling to care for them. Yes, it is disturbing. I would not want to be disembarked in a developing country where I do not speak the language.

In Europe it was (and still might be) the ports that required you be put off the ship if you were Covid positive, NOT the cruise line...

[momofmeg]

On 8/11/2022 at 11:34 PM, K32682 said:

 

We aren't talking heart attacks. We are talking COVID and there are examples of passengers who test positive being put off and left to fend for themselves. Therefore, I am not going to run to be tested should I come down with symptoms that are mild but might be COVID. 

 Hank needs to post here. He has taken several cruises since the ships started up again a year ago. He said those who tested positive were quarantined in their cabins and if possible were moved to a suite if there were empty suites on the cruises he had taken.

 Now the nightmares I read about, were not people being dumped off ship. It was when they tested positive, and the cruise ENDED, and they were still positive. The USA was requiring negative COVID tests before flying home.  But the CDC dropped that back in June. We flew home from England 2 weeks ago and no one asked us even if we felt unwell.

 

besides I think it is a moot point now with most cruise lines dropping vaccination requirements, and even the ones that still require you be vaccinated are not requiring a COVID test anymore. 

 

thankfully COVIDF is less of a threat now. Yes, people still die of it but finally less people are dying form COVID than the flu. The only people who still need to worry are those immune compromised. The rest of us can breathe a sigh of relief.

Now I am a bit concerned because I got whooping cough 10 years ago after our Italy cruise when there was an outbreak. (Summer 2012) Five years ago come October I came home with the flu when there was an outbreak on our Norwegian Jade Canada cruise. So, I am concerned for myself Healthwise somewhat, but lol not just COVID. I just know my immune system is not as good as it was.

[smilesback]

Have to say I have thought deeply about my personal responsibility and the good for all more than usual now that we are signed up for a cruise.  I can only do so much and trust that it will all work out.  That seems to help.  We did buy travel insurance and check that we have medical coverage overseas to be prepared.  We will do what it takes to deal with viruses,  the social distance thing, masking in crowds, choosing outdoor activities to try to protect ourselves from getting infected as well as others. You know what we have been doing for the last 2 1/2 years.  What more can you do?  I think it is likely that most people do their best with their situation and so cannot really judge others.  I cannot predict what will happen on our trip,  just hope for the best.  And hope to have fun, meeting people, making new friends, enjoying the ports and activities.  Wishing the same for everyone.  Cheers!

[Hlitner]

On 8/12/2022 at 4:41 PM, LHT28 said:

I have not heard of  people being  taken off the ship  & left there  ..

We have witnessed something of that order.  In March-April we took a 27 day Seabourn Ovation cruise which went from Miami to Monte Carlo.  The first segment ended in Lisbon after 14 days.  Drinking friends of ours (who would join us every evening in the Ovation Bar) contracted COVID about 3 days before we got to Lisbon (we had quite a few COVID cases from the 2nd day out of Miami).  As per Seabourn protocols they were quarantined in their Suite (I think the quarantine suites were full).  Being quarantines on SB is not too bad as you have unlimied (and excellent) room service food and booze, a nice suite, balcony, etc.  But the protocol was that you had to be in quarantine for 7 days after which you were "let out of jail" with no further testing.  Since these folks, and some others, could not serve out their 7 days prior to arriving in Portugal, apparently the Portuguese rules were that they had to leave the ship and finish their quarantine at a local hotel (because we are talking Seabourn they were taken to the Intercontinental.)   We never saw that couple again (we assume they decided not to catch up to the ship) so they either spend some time in Europe or immediately flew home (after Quarantine).  At that time we still had to have a negative test (or physicians note) to fly back to the USA.

 

We also know of another Seabourn cruise, from Aug 2021, in the Greek Islands (a few weeks after we left that same ship) where a group of folks (I think it was 8 got COVID onboard.  By order of the Greek government, they were all forced to debark (with their partners), in mid cruise, at the island of Rhodes where they were quarantined until deemed OK to fly home.  We later heard that 1 or possibly 2 of that group were hospitalized on Rhodes, but eventually all did go home. 

 

This is just one cruise line but one for which we have fpersonal knowledge.  There were plenty of similar stories with some other lines which I cannot confirm because of no first-hand knowledge.  

 

So what is the situation today?  I think we would be on very firm ground if we said it depends on the ports, the seriousness of the sickness, and the cruise line.

 

Hank

[K32682]

15 hours ago, momofmeg said:

 Hank needs to post here. He has taken several cruises since the ships started up again a year ago. He said those who tested positive were quarantined in their cabins and if possible were moved to a suite if there were empty suites on the cruises he had taken.

 
Now the nightmares I read about, were not people being dumped off ship. It was when they tested positive, and the cruise ENDED, and they were still positive. The USA was requiring negative COVID tests before flying home.  But the CDC dropped that back in June. We flew home from England 2 weeks ago and no one asked us even if we felt unwell.

 

Your conclusion is incorrect. Please read post #35. 

[LHT28]

10 hours ago, Hlitner said:

We have witnessed something of that order.  In March-April we took a 27 day Seabourn Ovation cruise which went from Miami to Monte Carlo.  The first segment ended in Lisbon after 14 days.  Drinking friends of ours (who would join us every evening in the Ovation Bar) contracted COVID about 3 days before we got to Lisbon (we had quite a few COVID cases from the 2nd day out of Miami).  As per Seabourn protocols they were quarantined in their Suite (I think the quarantine suites were full).  Being quarantines on SB is not too bad as you have unlimied (and excellent) room service food and booze, a nice suite, balcony, etc.  But the protocol was that you had to be in quarantine for 7 days after which you were "let out of jail" with no further testing.  Since these folks, and some others, could not serve out their 7 days prior to arriving in Portugal, apparently the Portuguese rules were that they had to leave the ship and finish their quarantine at a local hotel (because we are talking Seabourn they were taken to the Intercontinental.)   We never saw that couple again (we assume they decided not to catch up to the ship) so they either spend some time in Europe or immediately flew home (after Quarantine).  At that time we still had to have a negative test (or physicians note) to fly back to the USA.

 

We also know of another Seabourn cruise, from Aug 2021, in the Greek Islands (a few weeks after we left that same ship) where a group of folks (I think it was 8 got COVID onboard.  By order of the Greek government, they were all forced to debark (with their partners), in mid cruise, at the island of Rhodes where they were quarantined until deemed OK to fly home.  We later heard that 1 or possibly 2 of that group were hospitalized on Rhodes, but eventually all did go home. 

 

This is just one cruise line but one for which we have fpersonal knowledge.  There were plenty of similar stories with some other lines which I cannot confirm because of no first-hand knowledge.  

 

So what is the situation today?  I think we would be on very firm ground if we said it depends on the ports, the seriousness of the sickness, and the cruise line.

 

Hank

so  they were not taken off the ship & dumped to fend for themselves as the poster I responded to implied

They were taken to a hotel/hospital  & the last time I was in Greece  they spoken English in the tourist areas 

[Hlitner]

49 minutes ago, LHT28 said:

so  they were not taken off the ship & dumped to fend for themselves as the poster I responded to implied

They were taken to a hotel/hospital  & the last time I was in Greece  they spoken English in the tourist areas 

With the couple in Lisbon, we only know that they were quarantined in the Intercontinental Hotel (a 5* Property) but never heard from them after that day.  I assume they served out their quarantine in that hotel.  They would have needed to see a physician to get a recovery letter (in lieu) of a negative test in order to fly back to the USA.   The group that was quarantined (Aug 2021) on the island of Rhodes actually posted on FB so we did follow their situation.  They were treated by a local physician and received daily phone calls from the ship's local agent.  That group always had support from Seabourn and their agents who also handled their modified air arrangements.

 

I will add that Seabourn is luxury cruise line so there is nothing surprising that they continued to provide decent support even on land.  We have read some reports (here on CC) about folks who were quarantined in various places and did not receive much after support from their respective cruise lines.   But the situation has really changed since June because folks no longer need a negative test or a physicians recovery letter to fly home to the USA.  So once off the ship there would generally be nothing stopping them from must leaving their hotel (assuming they were feeling well enough) and going home.  I would assume plenty of folks who are testing positive for COVID simply travel home since nobody is requiring tests these days.   In a sense it would be similar to any cold, flu, etc. in that you just do what you think is best.

 

Hank

[K32682]

3 hours ago, LHT28 said:

so  they were not taken off the ship & dumped to fend for themselves as the poster I responded to implied

They were taken to a hotel/hospital  & the last time I was in Greece  they spoken English in the tourist areas 

 

Dumped off at a hospital/hotel and then left to fend for themselves. How did they get home? How long were they held in the country? What was the additional cost of the hotel? How much more did their flights cost? Who booked the flights? 

 

If a positive test risks being dropped off at the next port then I'm going to everything I can to avoid being tested onboard.  

[shipgeeks]

1 hour ago, K32682 said:

 

Dumped off at a hospital/hotel and then left to fend for themselves. How did they get home? How long were they held in the country? What was the additional cost of the hotel? How much more did their flights cost? Who booked the flights? 

 

If a positive test risks being dropped off at the next port then I'm going to everything I can to avoid being tested onboard.  

A good way to avoid that, then, is to not cruise.

[Hlitner]

1 hour ago, K32682 said:

 

Dumped off at a hospital/hotel and then left to fend for themselves. How did they get home? How long were they held in the country? What was the additional cost of the hotel? How much more did their flights cost? Who booked the flights? 

 

If a positive test risks being dropped off at the next port then I'm going to everything I can to avoid being tested onboard.  

What you describe is akin to independent travel which is something we have been doing for about 50 years!   Even if folks are on a land trip they face the similar situation of being sick in a foreign land and having to fend for one's self.  

 

As to avoiding being tested aboard, on many of our cruises this was not an option although things have recently changed.  But, for example, when we cruised in Greece in July-Aug 2021 we had to be tested before we flew to Greece, tested again at embarkation, and then tested once a week on the ship.  In addition we had to get ourselves tested before flying home.  When we cruised the Caribbean (out of Barbados) in October we had to be tested prior to flying to Barbados, after arriving in Barbados. at embarkation, and a couple of days prior to debarkation.   

 

But in the future we will likely face much less mandatory testing.  However, the reality of travel and cruising is that some folks do get sick and need to access medical care (which will often result in testing).  And trying to hide being sick is difficult to do on a cruise ship.  

 

For those taking relatively short cruises out of US Ports it does look like the testing protocols are now being eased or even eliminated.  But even as those cruises move back to something akin to the old norms, the reality is that COVID does cause some folks to get sick and that is not going to change in the near future.

 

Hank

 

[ontheweb]

4 minutes ago, Hlitner said:

 

Um, where are the words of experience and wisdom one has come to expect from you?

[Hlitner]

8 minutes ago, ontheweb said:

Um, where are the words of experience and wisdom one has come to expect from you?

ROFL,  I will plead guilty to the "experience" but not so sure about wisdom.   But for us, this COVID - travel situation has been quite simple.  We only stopped traveling for about 4 months (Feb - June 2020) and then adopted the attitude that COVID would be with us forever and we must learn to live with the disease as we have with other diseases.  So, in June 2020 we resumed travel (both domestically and internationally).  We resumed cruising in July 2021 and have returned to almost a normal cruise life (75 - 120 cruise days a year).    As to wisdom, well, we find it interesting that just about everyone we know who has stayed near home, locked down, taken all kinds of precautions, etc. have had COVID (some have had it multiple times).  As of today (knock on a bulkhead) DW and I have somehow (we think luck plays a part) avoided getting COVID (as far as we know).

 

Regarding wisdom, we do not dare to suggest that anyone follow our example of living a normal life.  We think that kind of decision is very personal, based on each person's risk tolerance, and that is the way it should be!  We also think that most governments have done what most governments always do which is to screw up just about everything related to COVID.   

 

Hank

[K32682]

1 hour ago, Hlitner said:

What you describe is akin to independent travel which is something we have been doing for about 50 years!   Even if folks are on a land trip they face the similar situation of being sick in a foreign land and having to fend for one's self.  

 

The difference on a land trip is I get to choose where I go and when. Should I fall ill there is no risk someone else will be making the decisions where I end up. The cruise line policies of deboarding positive passengers makes land trips far more attractive because you control your own destiny.   

 

For example, I starting showing symptoms of what might have been COVID while in Florida. A negative test was required to board a flight to Canada at the time. Not wanting to risk being stranded in Florida, I took a domestic flight to Buffalo, was tested there and crossed by land at Fort Erie. Even if the test were positive I could not be denied entry to Canada. 

[Hlitner]

12 minutes ago, K32682 said:

 

The difference on a land trip is I get to choose where I go and when. Should I fall ill there is no risk someone else will be making the decisions where I end up. The cruise line policies of deboarding positive passengers makes land trips far more attractive because you control your own destiny.   

 

For example, I starting showing symptoms of what might have been COVID while in Florida. A negative test was required to board a flight to Canada at the time. Not wanting to risk being stranded in Florida, I took a domestic flight to Buffalo, was tested there and crossed by land at Fort Erie. Even if the test were positive I could not be denied entry to Canada. 

We are thinking on a slightly different wavelength.  You speak of North America where I would have no concerns being stranded.   But my focus is primarily on Europe, Asia and South America.  Being stranded by being tossed off a ship or while traveling on land does become more of a challenge.  When we were on that Seabourn cruise, DW and I talked about what we would do if one or both of us got Covid and we were kicked off the ship in Portugal (like are friends).  We were actually working on a Plan B to stay in Europe for a few weeks (after quarantine) and eventually making our way to Prague (from where we had our return flight).  Of course that assumed that we would not be "too sick" and would physically be up to continuing our travels.

 

I should add that we have had some experience getting sick (or injured) in foreign lands and it is always an "interesting" challenge.  And this was before COVID.  I think many folks have forgotten that there were other diseases prior to COVID.  Having a real bad case of the flu can be a lot worse than a mild case of COVID.  Real flu can put a person down for more than a week!  And injuries can happen anywhere (once had to evacuate DW from Japan back to the USA).

 

Hank

[donaldsc]

19 minutes ago, K32682 said:

 

The difference on a land trip is I get to choose where I go and when. Should I fall ill there is no risk someone else will be making the decisions where I end up. The cruise line policies of deboarding positive passengers makes land trips far more attractive because you control your own destiny.   

 

For example, I starting showing symptoms of what might have been COVID while in Florida. A negative test was required to board a flight to Canada at the time. Not wanting to risk being stranded in Florida, I took a domestic flight to Buffalo, was tested there and crossed by land at Fort Erie. Even if the test were positive I could not be denied entry to Canada. 

 

I must be missing something.  If you tested positive in Buffalo why would they let you into Canada.  As a follow up should they have let you into Canada.  As a follow follow up if I were a resident of Canada my attitude would be that you should stay home so you infect Americans and not Canadians.

 

DON

[K32682]

6 minutes ago, donaldsc said:

 

I must be missing something.  If you tested positive in Buffalo why would they let you into Canada.  As a follow up should they have let you into Canada.  As a follow follow up if I were a resident of Canada my attitude would be that you should stay home so you infect Americans and not Canadians.

 

DON

 

I'm a Canadian citizen with a right of return. At the time a negative test was required to board a plane to Canada.  Even if I'd tested positive I could not have been denied entry into Canada if I got to the border.

 

 

Edited August 15, 2022 by K32682

[d9704011]

2 minutes ago, donaldsc said:

 

I must be missing something.  If you tested positive in Buffalo why would they let you into Canada.  As a follow up should they have let you into Canada.  As a follow follow up if I were a resident of Canada my attitude would be that you should stay home so you infect Americans and not Canadians.

 

DON

I'm thinking K32682 is a Canadian citizen.

[K32682]

4 minutes ago, Hlitner said:

We are thinking on a slightly different wavelength.  You speak of North America where I would have no concerns being stranded.   But my focus is primarily on Europe, Asia and South America.  Being stranded by being tossed off a ship or while traveling on land does become more of a challenge.  When we were on that Seabourn cruise, DW and I talked about what we would do if one or both of us got Covid and we were kicked off the ship in Portugal (like are friends).  We were actually working on a Plan B to stay in Europe for a few weeks (after quarantine) and eventually making our way to Prague (from where we had our return flight).  Of course that assumed that we would not be "too sick" and would physically be up to continuing our travels.

 

I should add that we have had some experience getting sick (or injured) in foreign lands and it is always an "interesting" challenge.  And this was before COVID.  I think many folks have forgotten that there were other diseases prior to COVID.  Having a real bad case of the flu can be a lot worse than a mild case of COVID.  Real flu can put a person down for more than a week!  And injuries can happen anywhere (once had to evacuate DW from Japan back to the USA).

 

Hank

 

I limited my travel to North America while the Canadian government had the testing requirements in place. Once they were lifted I began traveling in Europe and the UK again. If I start showing symptoms of COVID and they are not too debilitating my plan is to take the first flight home. 

[Hlitner]

32 minutes ago, K32682 said:

 

I limited my travel to North America while the Canadian government had the testing requirements in place. Once they were lifted I began traveling in Europe and the UK again. If I start showing symptoms of COVID and they are not too debilitating my plan is to take the first flight home. 

I gather you have not been flying in recent weeks.  Trying to change a flight will often mean waiting for days to even get a seat on another flight.  And yeah, everyone on your flight will thank you for flying with a contagious disease.

 

Hank