HAL updates "Travel Well" Covid-19 Protocols & Procedures

[BermudaBound2014]

5 hours ago, cruisemom42 said:

I agree it's about providing the illusion of safety but with a big wink (or maybe middle finger to those who are truly concerned about safety). 

 

Respectfully, I see it differently.

 

The cruise lines are no more giving the middle finger to those who are still "truly concerned" about safety then they were previously giving the middle finger to those who chose not to vaccinate (or did not want to pre-test). Cruise lines (and the CDC) are working off the best data available at this moment in time, much like vaccination requirements were based on the best data available previously. 

 

It's sad, because I want everyone to feel safe cruising and do wish that niche markets would evolve to cater to those still 'truly concerned about safety."

[cruisemom42]

6 minutes ago, BermudaBound2014 said:

Cruise lines (and the CDC) are working off the best data available at this moment in time, much like vaccination requirements were based on the best data available previously. 

 

I'm not trying to challenge you, but how can requiring folks to show the results from an unsupervised test be considered "working off the best data available"? You know, I know, and the cruise lines know that people are not going to be truthful. 

 

They are simply trying to do as little as possible to impede filling their berths every week. And yes, I know they are a business and they need to make money. But they also have to be held to a higher standard -- to uphold basic standards related to public health. Just like we don't want meat packers using rotten or contaminated meat just because it is cheaper and allows them to be more profitable. ("The Jungle" for those who know their history.)

 

Actually, come to think of it, there are a lot of similarities between the early 20th century meat packing industry and the early 21st century cruise industry.  Both industries dominated by a small handful of major players. Both depending primarily on unskilled labor working long hours for relatively low wages. Both largely (at the time) unregulated by US laws.

 

Hmmmm....

[TiogaCruiser]

5 hours ago, Horizon chaser 1957 said:

So, a family of five could self test. If one person (or a friend if needed) tests negative, they take five photos with each person holding the same negative stick?

Why bother asking for a test at all?

I’m not arguing with your interpretation. I’m just saying if that’s the case, then they aren’t really asking for tests from anyone.

Exactly.

[BermudaBound2014]

22 minutes ago, cruisemom42 said:

 

I'm not trying to challenge you, but how can requiring folks to show the results from an unsupervised test be considered "working off the best data available"? You know, I know, and the cruise lines know that people are not going to be truthful. 

 

They are simply trying to do as little as possible to impede filling their berths every week. And yes, I know they are a business and they need to make money. But they also have to be held to a higher standard -- to uphold basic standards related to public health. Just like we don't want meat packers using rotten or contaminated meat just because it is cheaper and allows them to be more profitable. ("The Jungle" for those who know their history.)

 

Actually, come to think of it, there are a lot of similarities between the early 20th century meat packing industry and the early 21st century cruise industry.  Both industries dominated by a small handful of major players. Both depending primarily on unskilled labor working long hours for relatively low wages. Both largely (at the time) unregulated by US laws.

 

Hmmmm....

 

 Agreed. Unsupervised testing is Theatre at best. Not data driven. I suspect the rule about unsupervised testing will be gone before we can blink an eye and will be replaced by something similar to the old health questioner.

 

When I mentioned emerging data, I was speaking specifically about the decision to allow unvaccinated to cruise. 

 

Edited August 17, 2022 by BermudaBound2014

[Nymich]

45 minutes ago, BermudaBound2014 said:

 

Respectfully, I see it differently.

 

The cruise lines are no more giving the middle finger to those who are still "truly concerned" about safety then they were previously giving the middle finger to those who chose not to vaccinate (or did not want to pre-test). 

 

 

As someone who likes to look at all sides when there is a polarizing topic like this I have to admit this is a valid point.

[JesseLivermore]

On 8/15/2022 at 10:20 AM, DCThunder said:

Cruises to Alaska from Vancouver will still require a test, as that's what the Canucks require.

 

how about ex SEA and  Canuck stops? 

[Mary229]

7 hours ago, BermudaBound2014 said:

It's sad, because I want everyone to feel safe cruising and do wish that niche markets would evolve to cater to those still 'truly concerned about safety."

The successful travel industry should be concerned only with safety of its operations, its systems and its facilities.  People should understand this is no different than a hotel or resort.  Be thankful they tell you openly what they are doing.  Did the last hotel or restaurant you patronize tell you if their employees were tested and vaccinated, did they inform you on the vaccination status of your fellow guests?  Put this in perspective.
 

 It only takes a minute not 16 days to be infected with a disease. This has never been theater or safety it has been following government directives and to some degree following consumer sentiment.

Edited August 17, 2022 by Mary229

[CruiserBruce]

6 hours ago, JesseLivermore said:

 

how about ex SEA and  Canuck stops? 

If your cruise touches Canada, you need a negative test to sail, and you need to use the ArriveCan system.

[Nymich]

1 hour ago, CruiserBruce said:

If your cruise touches Canada, you need a negative test to sail, and you need to use the ArriveCan system.

Oh Canada.  They are tough up there so I passed on a cruise out of Vancouver.  Seemed like flying up there, the testing, and the Arrivecan was just too much of a hassle so I "kicked the can" (anyone remember that game) and am going out of a US Port.

Edited August 17, 2022 by Nymich

[jeff74]

2 hours ago, Mary229 said:

The successful travel industry should be concerned only with safety of its operations, its systems and its facilities.  People should understand this is no different than a hotel or resort.  Be thankful they tell you openly what they are doing.  Did the last hotel or restaurant you patronize tell you if their employees were tested and vaccinated, did they inform you on the vaccination status of your fellow guests?  Put this in perspective.
 

 It only takes a minute not 16 days to be infected with a disease. This has never been theater or safety it has been following government directives and to some degree following consumer sentiment.

I agree that the cruise industry has been treated more harshly with the standards that they’ve been held up to relative to other parts of the travel industry.  However, the I would think average stay on a cruise ship is a good bit longer than the average stay at a hotel which increases your cumulative odds for contracting Covid.  Also, I can leave a hotel at any time that I please but that’s not logistically possible on a cruise.

[jeff74]

Also, what is somewhat head scratching is that vaccinated people have to bring their actual vaccination cards as proof instead of only needing to take a photo which would be more in line with the unvaccinated testing result requirements.

[Mary229]

16 minutes ago, jeff74 said:

I agree that the cruise industry has been treated more harshly with the standards that they’ve been held up to relative to other parts of the travel industry.  However, the I would think average stay on a cruise ship is a good bit longer than the average stay at a hotel which increases your cumulative odds for contracting Covid.  Also, I can leave a hotel at any time that I please but that’s not logistically possible on a cruise.

I was assuming a destination hotel or resort.  If your cruise ship is in port everyday from 8 to 4 you can be off the ship as much as anyone at a resort if destination hotel.  I was not saying the cruise industry being treated differently.  That was their problem to take up with the government and they were mealy mouthed and did not.  Why should I care if they don’t?  
 

I was pointing  out people’s unrealistic expectations of who is looking out for their personal health

[BermudaBound2014]

3 hours ago, Mary229 said:

It only takes a minute not 16 days to be infected with a disease. This has never been theater or safety it has been following government directives and to some degree following consumer sentiment.

 

 A niche market would provide those still in fear of covid (whether real or imagined) an avenue to cruise.  Thus appealing to customer sentiment for those still 'truly concerned". 

 

Mental health is a very real causality of Covid. While I don't disagree with the tenet of your stance, I have empathy for those who will never be 'over it'. I'm estimating that this number is a large enough sector of our population to warrant niche marketing. But, obviously I'm wrong, because cruise lines aren't experimenting with the idea lol. 🙂 

 

 

[DCThunder]

2 minutes ago, BermudaBound2014 said:

 

 A niche market would provide those still in fear of covid (whether real or imagined) an avenue to cruise.  Thus appealing to customer sentiment for those still 'truly concerned". 

 

Mental health is a very real causality of Covid. While I don't disagree with the tenet of your stance, I have empathy for those who will never be 'over it'. I'm estimating that this number is a large enough sector of our population to warrant niche marketing. But, obviously I'm wrong, because cruise lines aren't experimenting with the idea lol. 🙂 

 

 

The calculation that the cruise lines have to make is a big enough pool of people who are in fear of covid, BUT are willing to go on a fully "protected" cruise to make it profitable.  It would seem to me that this subset of those in "fear of covid" would be pretty small. 

 

I could see designating a specific ship as the "covid free" ship and requiring the same level of protection as late 2021 and early 2022 for passengers (masks/testing/vax, etc.) and offering a limited number of bread & butter Caribbean or Hawaiian cruises, but an entire line with this sort of approach would fail spectacularly, I'd think.

[BermudaBound2014]

Just now, DCThunder said:

The calculation that the cruise lines have to make is a big enough pool of people who are in fear of covid, BUT are willing to go on a fully "protected" cruise to make it profitable.  It would seem to me that this subset of those in "fear of covid" would be pretty small. 

 

I could see designating a specific ship as the "covid free" ship and requiring the same level of protection as late 2021 and early 2022 for passengers (masks/testing/vax, etc.) and offering a limited number of bread & butter Caribbean or Hawaiian cruises, but an entire line with this sort of approach would fail spectacularly, I'd think.

 

I agree. Not a whole line. 

[Mary229]

25 minutes ago, BermudaBound2014 said:

 

 A niche market would provide those still in fear of covid (whether real or imagined) an avenue to cruise.  Thus appealing to customer sentiment for those still 'truly concerned". 

 

Mental health is a very real causality of Covid. While I don't disagree with the tenet of your stance, I have empathy for those who will never be 'over it'. I'm estimating that this number is a large enough sector of our population to warrant niche marketing. But, obviously I'm wrong, because cruise lines aren't experimenting with the idea lol. 🙂 

 

 

I am not going to argue that but I recognize that the cruise lines are not responsible for my personal health, mental or physical. Those are issues for a person and their personal physician.  
 

I have a friend who has extreme crowd anxiety.  He travels extensively.  He takes medication to manage his anxiety.   So there you are, manage your own health and well being and you can see the world.  It is no different than a physical limitation.  You can need a wheelchair but the cruise line is only going to offer limited assistance, it is not going to have an entire line to provide total assistance and yet many manage to figure it out.  

[cruisemom42]

51 minutes ago, Mary229 said:

I am not going to argue that but I recognize that the cruise lines are not responsible for my personal health, mental or physical. Those are issues for a person and their personal physician.  
 

I have a friend who has extreme crowd anxiety.  He travels extensively.  He takes medication to manage his anxiety.   So there you are, manage your own health and well being and you can see the world.  It is no different than a physical limitation.  You can need a wheelchair but the cruise line is only going to offer limited assistance, it is not going to have an entire line to provide total assistance and yet many manage to figure it out.  

 

Personal health and public health are two different things. Public health is the area under which things like making sure restaurants are following health regulations and protocols to avoid foodborne illness fall. 

 

Hotels too have to follow many health regulations -- remember Legionnaire's Disease and the water management regulations that followed? 

 

And of course many industries have standards for things like the number of air exchanges per hour, fire safety regulations, and many more. 

 

I think discussion is getting clouded on the differences between the two, e.g., between personal health and public health. I'm not expecting cruise lines to manage my personal health and well-being. I am not physically experiencing anxiety about exposure to COVID, I am merely concerned about what places are doing based on my own understanding of transmission, infection, and consequences.

 

As a paying guest at any hotel, restaurant, cruise ship, etc. I should have a reasonable expectation that the establishment is not going to expose me to hazards in my food, water or environment and that they are following some sort of regulations/protocol to ensure safe operations not just of the machinery but of the the hospitality aspects. Accidents and failures can happen, of course, but with a sustained program they are the exception and not the rule. This is the basis of the current Vessel Sanitation Program (managed by CDC), for example.

 

I just stayed at a hotel in St. Paul last weekend. The hotel is not offering communal meals, only room service, to limit exposure to others. They are also not providing daily room cleaning; it is up to the individual to call if more towels or other supplies are needed. All staff and workers wore masks. This seems to me like a good example of somewhere that is following the scientific data and making an effort to reduce transmission of COVID. Some other businesses merely buy and post a pre-made sign that says "if you enter these premises you understand the risk that you may end up with COVID, and you can't hold us accountable because you read the sign and implicitly agreed to the risks."  (My own take on the wording, obviously....)

 

I would prefer and patronize places that do more of the former and less of the latter.

[DeeniEncinitas]

🌺🌺🌺🌺🌺🌺🌺🌺

Good morning!

my PCC is on vacation been trying to get a question answered.

🌺Vaccinated guests must provide evidence of vaccination status prior to embarkation. Pre-cruise testing is no longer required.
• Unvaccinated guests are welcomed aboard and must provide results of a negative medically supervised or self-test taken within three days of embarkation.

Since I will be doing b2b 

Panama Canal cruises

I am fine with taking a emed test proctored. !

🌺Just off the phone with HAL and they have no idea about just a self test at all! Said is it a misprint?? Had me on hold came back and said if it is printed then it must be ok??? I am boosted and double vax   and find HAL very confusing since no one can give a correct answer.

Thanks 🌺Denise

 

Edited August 17, 2022 by DeeniEncinitas
Spelling

[Mary229]

2 minutes ago, cruisemom42 said:

 

Personal health and public health are two different things. Public health is the area under which things like making sure restaurants are following health regulations and protocols to avoid foodborne illness fall. 

 

Hotels too have to follow many health regulations -- remember Legionnaire's Disease and the water management regulations that followed? 

 

And of course many industries have standards for things like the number of air exchanges per hour, fire safety regulations, and many more. 

 

I think discussion is getting clouded on the differences between the two, e.g., between personal health and public health. I'm not expecting cruise lines to manage my personal health and well-being. I am not physically experiencing anxiety about exposure to COVID, I am merely concerned about what places are doing based on my own understanding of transmission, infection, and consequences.

 

As a paying guest at any hotel, restaurant, cruise ship, etc. I should have a reasonable expectation that the establishment is not going to expose me to hazards in my food, water or environment and that they are following some sort of regulations/protocol to ensure safe operations not just of the machinery but of the the hospitality aspects. Accidents and failures can happen, of course, but with a sustained program they are the exception and not the rule. This is the basis of the current Vessel Sanitation Program (managed by CDC), for example.

 

I just stayed at a hotel in St. Paul last weekend. The hotel is not offering communal meals, only room service, to limit exposure to others. They are also not providing daily room cleaning; it is up to the individual to call if more towels or other supplies are needed. All staff and workers wore masks. This seems to me like a good example of somewhere that is following the scientific data and making an effort to reduce transmission of COVID. Some other businesses merely buy and post a pre-made sign that says "if you enter these premises you understand the risk that you may end up with COVID, and you can't hold us accountable because you read the sign and implicitly agreed to the risks."  (My own take on the wording, obviously....)

 

I would prefer and patronize places that do more of the former and less of the latter.

I covered the public health aspects in an earlier post.

 

simply put once a business has covered their regulatory basis they are going to make decisions upon their own consumer research, government regulation, legal liability and their own balance sheet.  We often forget with protocols often comes an implied liability and an insurance issue.

Cruise consumers at least are given the details and it is up to them to exercise caution as suits their personal health profile.  
 

This is not the first time this discussion has come up.  It has come up with service animals, those with mobility issues, those wanting to “live” on the cruise ships as a quasi nursing home, to name a few.  
 

I think those who want more stringent protocols should contact their government officials and their cruise lines.  I have advocated that position before for both sides and have done so to promote my own point of view 
 

.  

[LGD]

Any idea if Half Moon Cay will require the vax to go ashore after Sept 8 ??  The HAL site is silent to it and the Bahamas site still indicate vax required for all private islands. Please enlighten me. TIA

[Mary229]

I don’t understand why HAL doesn’t provide passengers with a link to the pertinent protocols for their cruise.  This should all be included with the cruise docs.   The rules are so convoluted now they need to provide clarity on a personal level. 

[3rdGenCunarder]

On 8/15/2022 at 4:27 PM, Vict0riann said:

 

I think it is because there are people who work in the locks who come on board and they want to know they are safe!

 

I find it odd that they specify full transit as an exception to dropping the test requirement, but there's no mention of partial transits. People who work there come onboard for a partial, too. And there are shore excursions, so passengers will be going into Panama. 

Edited August 18, 2022 by 3rdGenCunarder

[oakridger]

14 hours ago, DeeniEncinitas said:

🌺🌺🌺🌺🌺🌺🌺🌺

• Unvaccinated guests are welcomed aboard and must provide results of a negative medically supervised or self-test taken within three days of embarkation.

Since I will be doing b2b 

Panama Canal cruises

I am fine with taking a emed test proctored. !

🌺Just off the phone with HAL and they have no idea about just a self test at all! Said is it a misprint?? Had me on hold came back and said if it is printed then it must be ok??? I am boosted and double vax   and find HAL very confusing since no one can give a correct answer.

Thanks 🌺Denise

 

 

I said this when I first read it that it really must be a misprint about the self-test not specifying that it must be proctored.  I am dismayed that several days after the announcement HAL still hasn't clarified it on their website.  I had the same run around when checking with HAL on whether any online proctoring site is okay to use with other approved self tests.  HAL verbally told some people it's okay to use any site, some people reported using any site and boarding without a problem, but the HAL chat person told me no, we must use eMed or Optum!!!  Cripes this is annoying!!

 

~Nancy

 

 

[Daniel A]

The "Self Test" is described on the testing FAQ's web page.  It doesn't appear to be an honor system at all.

 

FAQs for Cruises from U.S. & Canada (hollandamerica.com)

 

Vaccinated guests may use a medically observed self-test (sometimes referred to a at-home test) that meets the following criteria:

• Only medically observed self-tests will be accepted. The test must be a SARS-CoV-2 viral test (nucleic acid amplification test [NAAT] or antigen test) with Emergency Use Authorization (EUA) from the U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA). Please note, antigen tests are accepted for fully vaccinated guests, but not for unvaccinated guests.
• The testing procedure must include a telehealth service affiliated with the manufacturer of the test that provides real-time supervision remotely through an audio and video connection. Some FDA-authorized self-tests that include a telehealth service may require a prescription. 
• The telehealth provider must confirm the person’s identity, observe the specimen collection and testing procedures, confirm the test result, and issue a report that meets the requirements of the acceptable proof of a negative COVID-19 test.

Holland America Line has partnered with Optum and Radeas so that U.S.-based vaccinated guests can order an FDA-authorized at-home antigen test kit, shipped to home. These at-home tests include a telehealth service. Please place your order with enough time to be shipped prior to your boarding. Order your Optum test kit online here * (2-pack for $69.99 or 3-pack for $99.99). Order your Radeas single pack for $45 here. An eMed 6-pack is available here.

 

Optum Link https://cruise.emed.com?utm_source=carnival-corporation&utm_medium=referral&utm_content=two&utm_campaign=travel_ready_covid_test

 

EMed Link for 6-pack https://store.emed.com/s/product/detail/01t8c00000M7G8yAAF?utm_source=website&utm_medium=website&utm_campaign=Carnival+6+Pack&utm_id=Carnival+Cruise+Line+-+6+Pack+Link  

 

Radeas Link https://cruise.radeas.com/

[PACD_JG]

5 hours ago, oakridger said:

 

I said this when I first read it that it really must be a misprint about the self-test not specifying that it must be proctored.  I am dismayed that several days after the announcement HAL still hasn't clarified it on their website. 

 

 

 

The irony in all this:  the vaccinated will have to jump through more hoops than the unvaxxed, as they still have to "provide evidence of vaccination status prior to embarkation."

 

HAL:  Vaxxed folks - show me your papers!  Unvaxxed folks - undated blurry photos showing only a blue line are a-okay!