“Ambush” style of new charges!

[AnnaNicole]

1 hour ago, LXA350 said:

Various cuts over the years are fully understandable and not needed anymore. There is enough to eat on a cruise, why do you need a midnight buffet. Regarding the chocolates, honestly they should cut that permanently and only offer it to Retreat cabins. Then for the towel animals this is not cost cutting but if I remember well is not done anymore due to some other reasons.

 

Looking at the current product, X is charging always more and provding less. Food quality is going down, in particular fresh products such as fruits and vegetables. Then the choices as mentioned in OV and MDR is going downhill. When you complain they come up with excuses of supply issues, well then they need to look for other suppliers and pay a bit more to get better quality. One redicioulous example for Suites, they are providing the Bigelow products now, maybe it changed again, due to "supply issues". Well there are many alternative brands to Le Labo so if X wanted to find a solution it could have been done.

 

The competion is becoming better and if X is not going to get their quality straight, people will start to look for alternatives.

It is not about chocolates, towel animals, or midnight buffets, per se; it is about the overall experience.  The devil is in the details.   In my experience, a cruise used to feel special.   Food was excellent, service was outstanding, the little things add a lot and it was money well spent.    

 

Once you start stripping off the toppings, well, sometimes the base product is not enough.

 

It is a lot like food dishes.   You start removing the "extras" and it just doesn't taste the same or have the same enjoyment factor.  Yes, it still provides nourishment, but it no longer holds the same appeal.   

 

 

[Luvcrusn]

We just got off Equinox a little under 3 weeks ago. The service was outstanding. The cuts, even before the new extra charge for a second lobster and the $9.95 + gratuity for room service for anything but continental breakfast were very apparent. The changes in pricing charged by X are off the charts high. The ONLY reason we booked another cruise was that our TA had a sale that made it worth it to us. We booked an Aqua class room that was less expensive than concierge or verandah on the slant for $3090 less than the same cabin would be to book with X. Both have drinks, tips, WIFI and $400 OBC from X and refundable deposit. BUT the TA offered another $375 in OBC-R. We are used to the TA being able to offer significantly better pricing and/or amenities, however over $3000 difference is absolutely ridiculous!!! That's another cruise! 

[RichYak]

1 hour ago, prmssk said:

 I just think that advocacy goes a lot further when we make sure we also recognize the tough and unprecedented spot cruise lines are in.

I'm tired of reading the excuses about this "unprecedented spot" cruise lines find themselves in. To be sure, they have amassed a lot of debt. But this is an issue for shareholders and debtholders. It is NOT an issue for passengers. RCG is currently profitable. There is no urgent need to further reduce the value of the product they offer, they just choose to.

[WrittenOnYourHeart]

2 hours ago, LMaxwell said:

 

I wonder how much a mediocre experience for a first timer ends up costing them.

 

I've always heard something like a customer with a good experience tells 1 person while a customer with a bad experience tells 10. So I'd imagine a mediocre experience for a newbie - especially if they had ideas planted in their heads from previous people about how amazing it is - will get a lot more negative talk and potentially turn off more people who might have been pondering trying a Celebrity cruise. Why try something that's just going to end up mediocre.

 

(And yes, I have to say that reading things on these forums overall has made me reconsider more than one cruise and/or line when they are negative or even mediocre. For the cost of cruises, mediocre ain't gonna cut it.)

Edited January 8, 2023 by WrittenOnYourHeart

[prmssk]

19 minutes ago, RichYak said:

I'm tired of reading the excuses about this "unprecedented spot" cruise lines find themselves in. To be sure, they have amassed a lot of debt. But this is an issue for shareholders and debtholders. It is NOT an issue for passengers. RCG is currently profitable. There is no urgent need to further reduce the value of the product they offer, they just choose to.

Ignoring the reality of the situation doesn't make it go away.

 

It will be an issue for passengers, if cruise lines start folding.  I still have a lot of cruising years left.  I want these cruise lines to still be around years down the road.

 

And no cruise line is making cuts that will upset their loyalty customers just because they want to.  They are doing it because the consequences of not are worse.  They may not be making decisions you or I agree with and they may not be transparent about those decisions but they are not making them just because.

[NMTraveller]

4 minutes ago, prmssk said:

Ignoring the reality of the situation doesn't make it go away.

 

It will be an issue for passengers, if cruise lines start folding.  I still have a lot of cruising years left.  I want these cruise lines to still be around years down the road.

 

And no cruise line is making cuts that will upset their loyalty customers just because they want to.  They are doing it because the consequences of not are worse.  They may not be making decisions you or I agree with and they may not be transparent about those decisions but they are not making them just because.

I don't think that a race to the bottom strategy will work as there are too many other choices.

 

I select something because it is a better choice.  For quite a while, cruises were a better choice on many levels.

 

I am not so sure now.

Edited January 8, 2023 by NMTraveller

[LGW59]

50 minutes ago, AnnaNicole said:

It is not about chocolates, towel animals, or midnight buffets, per se; it is about the overall experience.  The devil is in the details.   In my experience, a cruise used to feel special.   Food was excellent, service was outstanding, the little things add a lot and it was money well spent.    

 

Once you start stripping off the toppings, well, sometimes the base product is not enough.

 

It is a lot like food dishes.   You start removing the "extras" and it just doesn't taste the same or have the same enjoyment factor.  Yes, it still provides nourishment, but it no longer holds the same appeal.   

 

 

If it wasn't about chocolates, towel animals, midnight buffets...why do people bring them up on a regular basis?  I get it, (well I personally don't get it) but those things are important to some, which is fine, it's about a bigger view of what folks feel is being taken from them.  Hopefully for those that feel this way, they can be heard and get back some of what they feel is now missing to them.  If they don't, they will move on and Celebrity can then decide what is important to them.  We, they, have choices and make choices, be interesting to see how it all shakes out.  Happy sailing...

[prmssk]

1 minute ago, NMTraveller said:

I don't think that a race to the bottom strategy will work as there are too many other choices.

Maybe not, but their major competitors (other mass market lines) are making the same or even deeper cuts. They will likely lose some people to higher end lines, some others to land vacations.  But I think they are going to gain some who are sick of the even deeper cuts happening on other lines.  

[RichYak]

12 minutes ago, prmssk said:

And no cruise line is making cuts that will upset their loyalty customers just because they want to.  They are doing it because the consequences of not are worse.

Don't be naive. They're doing it to prop up their share price. It's a very slippery slope. If they cut too much and hurt the brand, everybody loses.

[BermudaBound2014]

6 minutes ago, prmssk said:

  But I think they are going to gain some who are sick of the even deeper cuts happening on other lines.  

 

I feel confident that I am aware of the cuts across the industry. However; no cut effects my personal enjoyment more than the reduction of the ocean view café for dinner. If the actual buffet items turn out to be  aligned with the menu shared here on CC, I will not select Celebrity for future cruises. It's a deal breaker. Some may find that ridiculous and I'm ok with that.  I am likely not the target market for Celebrity and can accept that too.

 

Just stating that no other line has cut me this deep (yet).

[mayleeman]

36 minutes ago, RichYak said:

Don't be naive. They're doing it to prop up their share price. It's a very slippery slope. If they cut too much and hurt the brand, everybody loses.

 

Good point. The past 2 decades is littered with the wrecks of companies that tried to prop up share prices using short term tactics that undermined long-term stability. SW Airlines is the latest, leaving their 25 year old logistics methods in place instead of investing in updates, leading to the recent disaster estimated to cost them over $650 million. Circuit City, Sears, etc needed to enhance their customers' experience, not lessen it, but cutting costs to inflate the quarterly net was chosen instead. 

 

On the other hand, there are well-known studies where customers say that yes, they would pay more for a better flying experience with more amenities, but then many of those seats go empty when cheaper deals are available.

[mnocket]

23 minutes ago, mayleeman said:

 

Good point. The past 2 decades is littered with the wrecks of companies that tried to prop up share prices using short term tactics that undermined long-term stability. SW Airlines is the latest, leaving their 25 year old logistics methods in place instead of investing in updates, leading to the recent disaster estimated to cost them over $650 million. Circuit City, Sears, etc needed to enhance their customers' experience, not lessen it, but cutting costs to inflate the quarterly net was chosen instead. 

 

On the other hand, there are well-known studies where customers say that yes, they would pay more for a better flying experience with more amenities, but then many of those seats go empty when cheaper deals are available.

Must say, I completely agree with this post of yours. It's funny, I'm one of those who is willing to pay more for an improved flying experience - and yet it is only grudgingly that I pony up the money.

[cruisegal415]

On 1/5/2023 at 12:04 PM, Luvcrusn said:

I am a chronic over-packer, so the lack of bathroom amenities really didn't matter. Although oatmeal raisin cookies are our X favorite, they aren't a deal breaker. The lunch offerings in OVC, although fewer didn't affect us too much except for requiring us to walk around a bit more to find what we wanted. That walking was a bonus since we didn't make it to the gym. The tea offerings we did miss, but perhaps their absence contributed to a lower weight gain during the cruise. Once I told them how to make a Frozen Toasted Almond they managed to get it right. If they hadn't that might be another story.😜

How do you make a Frozen Toasted Almond? That sounds divine!

 

[Florida Mom3]

On 1/5/2023 at 12:04 PM, Luvcrusn said:

I am a chronic over-packer, so the lack of bathroom amenities really didn't matter. Although oatmeal raisin cookies are our X favorite, they aren't a deal breaker. The lunch offerings in OVC, although fewer didn't affect us too much except for requiring us to walk around a bit more to find what we wanted. That walking was a bonus since we didn't make it to the gym. The tea offerings we did miss, but perhaps their absence contributed to a lower weight gain during the cruise. Once I told them how to make a Frozen Toasted Almond they managed to get it right. If they hadn't that might be another story.😜

I’m intrigued. What is the recipe for a Frozen Toasted Almong… the name alone has me wanting to make one!

[Luvcrusn]

27 minutes ago, cruisegal415 said:

How do you make a Frozen Toasted Almond? That sounds divine!

 

[Host Anne]

I've been cruising since the early 1990s on a wide variety of cruise lines.  Celebrity had become our favorite and we were among the first to support them when they made their announcement of returning to sail when the pandemic began to subside for cruising back in the summer of 2021.  We have been on three Celebrity cruises since that first cruise back.  The first of the three back in January of 2022 was OK.  We were with a group of family and friends and just being together after a couple of years made the less than stellar cruise experience tolerable.  Everyone was a bit more understanding and willing to let things slide as the cruise lines were just getting back to starting to fill ships more than 2021.

 

Fast forward to the second half of 2022.  We have sailed Equinox, Reflection and Beyond.  I've written reviews on all of them but have been very hesitant to post them.  I always try to include the positives and the less than positives but as I've re-read my reviews and reflect back on the three cruises, there is no question in my mind that the Celebrity we knew and loved is likely gone forever and I don't feel like starting back and forth discussions here on the boards.

 

Many of the things that have been discussed here on the Celebrity boards are some of the reasons, but there are many more.  The bottom line for us is when the prices continue to escalate while the quality of the product and services continue to decline (and that is definitely the case in the past six months for us on our cruises), we simply choose to spend our money elsewhere.  For the first time in many, many years, we do not have a Celebrity cruise booked.  

 

It makes me sad.  There are many crew members that have provided wonderful service over the years (and we still had some good service on the cruises in 2022) but there has also been far too much less than stellar service recently, including in Luminae on Beyond recently (and we spoke with others on our cruise that noticed the same thing).  We're thinking long and hard about how we want to continue to spend the money we have worked so hard to earn. 

 

To the OP, I don't know if it's an ambush but I'm definitely feeling that they definitely no longer care about customers,  And the really sad thing is that this is permeating through so many other service industries now, too.  Time will tell if things turn around....

[Guest 4-2-N-8]

17 minutes ago, Host Anne said:

I've been cruising since the early 1990s on a wide variety of cruise lines.  Celebrity had become our favorite and we were among the first to support them when they made their announcement of returning to sail when the pandemic began to subside for cruising back in the summer of 2021.  We have been on three Celebrity cruises since that first cruise back.  The first of the three back in January of 2022 was OK.  We were with a group of family and friends and just being together after a couple of years made the less than stellar cruise experience tolerable.  Everyone was a bit more understanding and willing to let things slide as the cruise lines were just getting back to starting to fill ships more than 2021.

 

Fast forward to the second half of 2022.  We have sailed Equinox, Reflection and Beyond.  I've written reviews on all of them but have been very hesitant to post them.  I always try to include the positives and the less than positives but as I've re-read my reviews and reflect back on the three cruises, there is no question in my mind that the Celebrity we knew and loved is likely gone forever and I don't feel like starting back and forth discussions here on the boards.

 

Many of the things that have been discussed here on the Celebrity boards are some of the reasons, but there are many more.  The bottom line for us is when the prices continue to escalate while the quality of the product and services continue to decline (and that is definitely the case in the past six months for us on our cruises), we simply choose to spend our money elsewhere.  For the first time in many, many years, we do not have a Celebrity cruise booked.  

 

It makes me sad.  There are many crew members that have provided wonderful service over the years (and we still had some good service on the cruises in 2022) but there has also been far too much less than stellar service recently, including in Luminae on Beyond recently (and we spoke with others on our cruise that noticed the same thing).  We're thinking long and hard about how we want to continue to spend the money we have worked so hard to earn. 

 

To the OP, I don't know if it's an ambush but I'm definitely feeling that they definitely no longer care about customers,  And the really sad thing is that this is permeating through so many other service industries now, too.  Time will tell if things turn around....

Can you advise your specific stateroom type for each of the three noted recent cruises? TY

[AnnaNicole]

3 hours ago, LGW59 said:

If it wasn't about chocolates, towel animals, midnight buffets...why do people bring them up on a regular basis?  I get it, (well I personally don't get it) but those things are important to some, which is fine, it's about a bigger view of what folks feel is being taken from them.  Hopefully for those that feel this way, they can be heard and get back some of what they feel is now missing to them.  If they don't, they will move on and Celebrity can then decide what is important to them.  We, they, have choices and make choices, be interesting to see how it all shakes out.  Happy sailing...

Because they were a part of the overall experience.   That's why.    I don't know how to explain it any further.   

[AnnaNicole]

34 minutes ago, Host Anne said:

I've been cruising since the early 1990s on a wide variety of cruise lines.  Celebrity had become our favorite and we were among the first to support them when they made their announcement of returning to sail when the pandemic began to subside for cruising back in the summer of 2021.  We have been on three Celebrity cruises since that first cruise back.  The first of the three back in January of 2022 was OK.  We were with a group of family and friends and just being together after a couple of years made the less than stellar cruise experience tolerable.  Everyone was a bit more understanding and willing to let things slide as the cruise lines were just getting back to starting to fill ships more than 2021.

 

Fast forward to the second half of 2022.  We have sailed Equinox, Reflection and Beyond.  I've written reviews on all of them but have been very hesitant to post them.  I always try to include the positives and the less than positives but as I've re-read my reviews and reflect back on the three cruises, there is no question in my mind that the Celebrity we knew and loved is likely gone forever and I don't feel like starting back and forth discussions here on the boards.

 

Many of the things that have been discussed here on the Celebrity boards are some of the reasons, but there are many more.  The bottom line for us is when the prices continue to escalate while the quality of the product and services continue to decline (and that is definitely the case in the past six months for us on our cruises), we simply choose to spend our money elsewhere.  For the first time in many, many years, we do not have a Celebrity cruise booked.  

 

It makes me sad.  There are many crew members that have provided wonderful service over the years (and we still had some good service on the cruises in 2022) but there has also been far too much less than stellar service recently, including in Luminae on Beyond recently (and we spoke with others on our cruise that noticed the same thing).  We're thinking long and hard about how we want to continue to spend the money we have worked so hard to earn. 

 

To the OP, I don't know if it's an ambush but I'm definitely feeling that they definitely no longer care about customers,  And the really sad thing is that this is permeating through so many other service industries now, too.  Time will tell if things turn around....

This is how I feel too.

 

 

Funnily enough, I just got another offer for a free veranda from the BCC.   This is my fifth or sixth offer.   

[kearney]

 I was curious about land vacation vs a cruise... so I tried cost comparison for a 6 day cruise in June vs a 6 day stay on Hilton Head overlooking Harbortown marina. Selected a mid priced veranda vs a one bedroom condo with a view. The cost of accommodations including various fees and taxes was $1750...vs the cruise of $2860 (including gratuities)... but when I factored in meals... (I used Ihop menu for breakfast..Appleby's sandwich prices for lunch...and a nice local restaurant for dinner... meals per day with 20% tip was about $225 for two.. In total the 6 day HHI trip was a tad more expensive than the cruise and you could always drop a meal or cook in the condo..to reduce costs... but using a sample of one... cruise still better value..with entertainment and change of scenery ..Of course I am looking a prime veranda vs a condo...not sure how a suite would compare to a house on the ocean.. but for my money it is still a value. What I don't like the dramatic switch from Always Included (which was a misnomer to begin with)...to a number of additional charges... when you get used to not having to look at the bill on a daily basis..it is annoying to have to keep checking to make sure no unplanned extras popup.

 

Out of curiosity.. I checked Costco travel for package to Grand Cayman..one of the stops on the June cruise I used for cost purposes... since you have to fly there.. the package they had with air fromATL and transfers ..exceeded $5,000..before considering meals.... So while not a full analysis.. cruising still seems like the better deal

Edited January 8, 2023 by kearney

[cruisegal415]

58 minutes ago, Luvcrusn said:

Oh wow, that sounds wonderful.  My mother always used to order a "Toasted Almond" which was Kahlua, Amaretto and cream.  I like the inclusion of Baileys and ice cream! I will have to order that next week.

[LMaxwell]

4 hours ago, WrittenOnYourHeart said:

 

I've always heard something like a customer with a good experience tells 1 person while a customer with a bad experience tells 10. So I'd imagine a mediocre experience for a newbie - especially if they had ideas planted in their heads from previous people about how amazing it is - will get a lot more negative talk and potentially turn off more people who might have been pondering trying a Celebrity cruise. Why try something that's just going to end up mediocre.

 

(And yes, I have to say that reading things on these forums overall has made me reconsider more than one cruise and/or line when they are negative or even mediocre. For the cost of cruises, mediocre ain't gonna cut it.)

 

I wasn't even considering that perspective, but that's right, and valid. 

 

I was looking at even more basically.  How much revenue are you worth to them over the rest of your lifetime? If you get hooked and go multiple times per year or book longer itineraries or bring larger family, that is significant. Not only do they earn it, but that's a competitor not getting it. 

 

 

[kearney]

1 minute ago, LMaxwell said:

 

Yes, seniors are dropping $100K - 200K a year on extended several months long cruises because they are destitute and nothing but SS coming in.

 

Land based vacations are great and all but water covers 2/3 of the Earth. 

DH has mobility issues...so what I like about cruising..is that they take you from place to place. Our first cruise was of the Hawaiian Islands back in '91. It was great not having to pack and head to the airport to head to see another island. And with DH mobility ..we just get to the ship and from there.. he can relax. I am not surprised at extra charges..but since we don't use room service, and have seldom been to the OV after 5.. the changes may make MDR more crowded..but other than that.. limited impact. 

[D C]

4 hours ago, prmssk said:

Ignoring the reality of the situation doesn't make it go away.

 

It will be an issue for passengers, if cruise lines start folding.  I still have a lot of cruising years left.  I want these cruise lines to still be around years down the road.

 

And no cruise line is making cuts that will upset their loyalty customers just because they want to.  They are doing it because the consequences of not are worse.  They may not be making decisions you or I agree with and they may not be transparent about those decisions but they are not making them just because.

 

Loyal guests are little more than a nuisance. Just ask Disney. Passholders come time and again, they don't spend $ on lots of extras and souvenirs.  Very low revenue per guest. On top of that, they notice when you try to quietly degrade the product. So pesky! 

 

X is making cuts because they think they can get away with it and that the bottom line will benefit.   Loyalty doesn't enter the equation on their behalf at all, or maybe as a footnote. So that elite guest goes elsewhere and is replaced with some new, unsuspecting customer.  No bags of laundry or free cheap drinks to dole out.  Sell some t-shirts or watches and lots of excursions. That's a win! 

[Larry lobster]

We booked a cruise of the Connie which included the classic drink package over one year ago.  I understand Celebrity has taken the zero alcohol package out of the classic package.  That means an additional $440.  Can they just change the package 3 weeks before sailing?