Are most of us just spoiled?

[Toofarfromthesea]

On 6/14/2023 at 9:18 AM, CruiserBruce said:

Better? No. More fortunate? Yes.

 

Better off, not better.  

[Markanddonna]

7 hours ago, aborgman said:

 

Carnival 3 day cruise to Nassau

1986: $325 ($910 in 2022 dollars)

Today: $420

 

The price of a Carnival 3 day to Nassau is about 1/2 what it was in 1986.

The problem is that many who have been to Nassau more than once are hesitant to leave the ship and often don't.  To many, it isn't a desirable port, therefore the cheap rate.

[navybankerteacher]

7 hours ago, aborgman said:

 

Carnival 3 day cruise to Nassau

1986: $325 ($910 in 2022 dollars)

Today: $420

 

The price of a Carnival 3 day to Nassau is about 1/2 what it was in 1986.

Yes - but the VALUE received is perhaps 1/3 of what it was in 1986 - when MDR food was pretty good and well served, there was higher quality entertainment.  There is no point in comparing dollar costs, even when adjusted for inflation, if you are not looking at the same product — and that  short cruise to Nassau today is simply not the same as a three day cruise in 1986

 

NCL is a great example - when they started (with TS Norway) there was great entertainment, very good food, good service - most folks who sailed her 25 or so years ago and enjoyed the experience would be sorely disappointed if they were to sail on any NCL ship today and wanted to pay the same fare (adjusted for inflation).

Edited June 15, 2023 by navybankerteacher

[aborgman]

37 minutes ago, navybankerteacher said:

Yes - but the VALUE received is perhaps 1/3 of what it was in 1986 - when MDR food was pretty good and well served, there was higher quality entertainment.  There is no point in comparing dollar costs, even when adjusted for inflation, if you are not looking at the same product — and that  short cruise to Nassau today is simply not the same as a three day cruise in 1986

 

NCL is a great example - when they started (with TS Norway) there was great entertainment, very good food, good service - most folks who sailed her 25 or so years ago and enjoyed the experience would be sorely disappointed if they were to sail on any NCL ship today and wanted to pay the same fare (adjusted for inflation).

 

We can quantify cost. We can't quantify subjective "value".

 

... and I suspect there would be wild disagreement about the entertainment being better in 1986.

[Kristelle]

I think we are all spoiled - not in a negative spoilt brat way but in a way that all of us on this forum are in  first world countries and in a financial position to afford fancy holidays - cruises are not camping trips, after all

Sure, we have worked hard and managed our money well and part of the reason we can afford to travel is because we prioritise spending money on holidays over, say, clothes or smoking or expensive hobbies - but we are lucky to have that choice.

 

Somebody struggling in a 3rd world country or with fractured employment or etc doesnt have those choices. Other people work hard too and still cant have same financial outcomes

 

I think we should all be grateful for our fortunate position in the world population.

 

Of course that doesn't mean we don't want value for our holiday money or can't make constructive criticism or comparisons.

 

it does mean we shouldnt turn into the spoiled brat types described above who are rude or complain about every petty issue or expect the world to suit us.

[Honolulu Blue]

18 hours ago, cruisemom42 said:

Travel has always been a priority in my family. From an early age I was taken on cruises and land travel (including Europe starting in my teens). We weren't wealthy by any means, and we were frugal in our habits in ways that enabled us to spend probably a much higher % of household earnings on travel.

I just want to note here (mostly for me) that travel was never a priority in my family.  Travel was mostly local or trips to visit relatives. 

 

I've always had an urge to travel and visit different places.  My parents and sister?  Not so much.  I didn't take my first plane flight until my 20s and I didn't take my first cruise until two decades later.

 

I feel privileged to be able to now go, as one of my favorite philosophers once said, "most anywhere, anytime".  

[Joebucks]

23 hours ago, Hlitner said:

Ahhhh, but the real issue is that the Carnival of today is not the same as the Carnival of 1986.  That is why I like to post about "value" rather than price.  

 

I have no idea what "spoiled" means as we simply look for the best "value" for our money.  In our experience, most folks who accuse others of being "spoiled" are simply envious/jealous or trying to rationalize their own decision.  So, for example, a person who pays for a HAL Neptune Suite today, may not want to "hear it" when told that HAL has the worst suite amenity package in the cruise industry.  So anyone who books a suite on a competitor where they get a lot more for their money might be accused as being spoiled?  Really?  I would call that person (who books the other line) "wise."

 

The best part is, if you could book the exact Carnival 1986 experience today, people wouldn't want it. Sure there might be some nostalgic people and whatnot right off the bat. However, double the price, less amenities, less to do, no balconies, etc. People absolutely love to pick and choose the best parts of everything, and complain when it's not possible. Spoiled.

 

22 hours ago, cruisemom42 said:

 

We should be careful with the words we choose. "Spoiled" has a specific negative connotation. I don't think that just having the ability to enjoy a cruise vacation makes one "spoiled"; I'd say it makes one very fortunate.

 

I also think we should recognize that many of us have worked extremely hard throughout our lives to be in the position that we are in. Not too many of us were born with a silver spoon or inherited a Swiss bank account. We may have been fortunate to have been born in a time and place that allowed us to do this, but that alone is not enough -- one has to put in the effort.

 

This is actually more spoiled speak. The whole "worked hard" thing is fairly subjective. In fact, the cruise ship workers have probably worked harder than 95% of the passengers on the ship. Many of the employees that serve all of these hard workers on their various vacations will never get to enjoy the luxuries we have. There's also plenty of people on these ships that never worked or barely did, coasting off of the salary of a partner or family member. All while complaining about every little thing. Spoiled.

 

I don't mean to put down your career or anything. I'm sure you worked very hard as many of us do. However, hard work has different outcomes for different people, especially in other countries. 

[cruisemom42]

 

Without getting into a semantics war, I was specifically addressing the comment from klfrodo suggesting that merely having the ability to enjoy a cruise vacation makes one "spoiled/entitled":

 

23 hours ago, klfrodo said:

just the ability to enjoy a cruise vacation, let alone many cruise vacations, places many of us in the spoiled/entitled mindset.

 

The definition of "spoiled" (as it applies to people and not fruit) is

 

"(of a person, especially a child) harmed in character by being treated too leniently or indulgently. E.g., "he acts like a spoiled brat."

 

The way you and others are applying "spoiled" is what I would call a 21st century interpretation. It has an undeniably negative connotation.

 

What I'm trying to say is:  Yes, some cruisers are spoiled/entitled. But just the very fact that you are able to take a cruise does not make you either one.

 

 

[ldubs]

40 minutes ago, cruisemom42 said:

 

Without getting into a semantics war, I was specifically addressing the comment from klfrodo suggesting that merely having the ability to enjoy a cruise vacation makes one "spoiled/entitled":

 

 

The definition of "spoiled" (as it applies to people and not fruit) is

 

"(of a person, especially a child) harmed in character by being treated too leniently or indulgently. E.g., "he acts like a spoiled brat."

 

The way you and others are applying "spoiled" is what I would call a 21st century interpretation. It has an undeniably negative connotation.

 

What I'm trying to say is:  Yes, some cruisers are spoiled/entitled. But just the very fact that you are able to take a cruise does not make you either one.

 

 

 

 

As you say earlier, "spoiled" is probably the wrong choice of word for the OP's discussion.  Seems the question is have things really declined or have we just become too familiar to the point they are no longer special or enjoyed as much.   

[CruiserBruce]

Wow...we are arguing about the definition of "spoiled". That really says something,  in my mind. And it's not good.

[ontheweb]

8 minutes ago, CruiserBruce said:

Wow...we are arguing about the definition of "spoiled". That really says something,  in my mind. And it's not good.

Definitely a first world problem. 

[Aquahound]

I love how people who don't sail on particular lines claim the quality of literally everything has gone down.  

 

All of my post-COVID cruises have been on Royal Caribbean and the quality of the live entertainment has certainly not gone down.  If anything, it has gotten better.  I don't know where they find these musicians, but their talent scouts are doing a phenomenal job.  FWIW, these are on Quantum Class ships.  I've debarked every single one feeling totally happy with the cruises.  

 

[navybankerteacher]

I think “spoiled” in the context of this thread means a feeling of dissatisfaction with cruising today when compared with each person’s memories of earlier cruises.

[DarrenM]

On 6/13/2023 at 11:33 PM, Bridget2 said:

We just finished our third cruise Princess to Alaska.  It was ok but somewhat disappointing.  So we're thinking of switching lines.  I'm perusing CC for a new cruise line.  Looking at Holland America.  Their general rating is only .1 higher than Princess.  Celebrity is a bit higher but not a lot.  So just for reference I checked out Regent and the rating is also just average!  I look at the reviews and everyone everywhere is complaining about the same things:  service and food are hit or miss, little communication,  staff knows nothing, etc. etc.  So my question is are we all just spoiled remembering our precovid cruises better than they really were?  Or are all the lines going downhill?

Having just left celebrity beyond this morning I can more than confirm some people are spoilt.

 

More like entitled children.

 

Some of nasty behaviour was off the scale. Being disrespectful to staff, moaning about the food.....too small a portion, not like i have had previously, I want a  baked potato with this.......honest to god it was embarrassing.

 

One woman laughed when she received her main course claiming it was the smallest portion she had ever seen. All she had to do was eat it then order another one. It was the main dining room not a speciality restaurant.

 

Whats wrong with people?

 

Its an amazing ship with an amazing crew who work their nuts off.

 

I was too busy living my best life to find anything to moan about.

 

Well there was one thing.

 

More of that later, but this really surprised me. Especially on a primarily adult ship.

 

Any guesses?

 

 

 

 

 

[DarrenM]

2 hours ago, Aquahound said:

I love how people who don't sail on particular lines claim the quality of literally everything has gone down.  

 

All of my post-COVID cruises have been on Royal Caribbean and the quality of the live entertainment has certainly not gone down.  If anything, it has gotten better.  I don't know where they find these musicians, but their talent scouts are doing a phenomenal job.  FWIW, these are on Quantum Class ships.  I've debarked every single one feeling totally happy with the cruises.  

 

I feel the same just having left celebrity beyond.

 

The entertainment was off the scale.

 

Not much to my taste, but it was hardly likely to be, but it was still amazing.

[ldubs]

8 hours ago, CruiserBruce said:

Wow...we are arguing about the definition of "spoiled". That really says something,  in my mind. And it's not good.

 

Some of us think the word is being used incorrectly.  So, what does that really say?     

[ldubs]

5 hours ago, DarrenM said:

Having just left celebrity beyond this morning I can more than confirm some people are spoilt.

 

More like entitled children.

 

Some of nasty behaviour was off the scale. Being disrespectful to staff, moaning about the food.....too small a portion, not like i have had previously, I want a  baked potato with this.......honest to god it was embarrassing.

 

One woman laughed when she received her main course claiming it was the smallest portion she had ever seen. All she had to do was eat it then order another one. It was the main dining room not a speciality restaurant.

 

Whats wrong with people?

 

Its an amazing ship with an amazing crew who work their nuts off.

 

I was too busy living my best life to find anything to moan about.

 

Well there was one thing.

 

More of that later, but this really surprised me. Especially on a primarily adult ship.

 

Any guesses?

 

Aw, the chronic complainers!  Cruise ships seem to have more than their fair share.  It can be humorous if not for the staff who have to put up with the constant bellyachers.  

[CruiserBruce]

Everything was always better in the past....we always had it tougher...things were always cheaper...

 

Best summarized by the old lament "I walked to school every day...in the snow...uphill, both ways...

[Joebucks]

10 hours ago, ldubs said:

 

Some of us think the word is being used incorrectly.  So, what does that really say?     

 

Spoiled

[ontheweb]

8 hours ago, CruiserBruce said:

Everything was always better in the past....we always had it tougher...things were always cheaper...

 

Best summarized by the old lament "I walked to school every day...in the snow...uphill, both ways...

Or, the old Catsckill's joke, " The food was ter

rbile, and they would not give you seconds.".

[jsn55]

14 hours ago, ldubs said:

 

Some of us think the word is being used incorrectly.  So, what does that really say?     

What this thread really says is B O R I N G.  

[DarrenM]

It's very much monty python's 4 Yorkshire men sketch, this thread ( I know it wasn't theirs originally but they did it better)

 

Our ship was just a floating cardboard box and our dad gave us tar for tea.

 

A cardboard box? Tsk, you were lucky, we dreamed of having a cardboard to sail in. Etc etc

Edited June 17, 2023 by DarrenM

[DarrenM]

By the way.

 

Anyone not happy with the food, the staff, the entertainment, and the general ship itself, on board Celebrity Beyond, cant really be enjoying life generally.

 

The amount of little creatures  though,  now that's a different matter.

 

They must have been bored rigid.

[slidergirl]

At work, I call these people “entitled twits.”  (I‘be worked in luxury resorts and now a high end boutique condo lodge). Nothing is ever good enough. 

[cruiserking]

You can't really go by the ratings. People enjoy complaining it's a hobby for them. They go on a cruise vacation and can barely wait for the first snafu so they can start whining. 

 

I wouldn't stay we are spoiled. I think we're all really fortunate to travel and do so in style aboard these magnificent ships. 

 

Happy Cruising. 

 

Jonathan

Edited June 18, 2023 by cruiserking