Vaping in Casino on Equinox

[poffles]

14 minutes ago, NutsAboutGolf said:

When does this so-called 8-week testing period end?  

 

From the canned response I received with regards to the 'test'. 

 

"This test is currently taking place on the Celebrity Equinox and Celebrity Eclipse through August 20th."

[mayleeman]

@Daveywavey70  You started posting your approval of Celeb's test by claiming every particle was absorbed in your own lungs and therefore no one could even detect if you were vaping. I have asked you to consider the comments and stories from people complaining about smelling, having allergic reactions to, and/or being otherwise negatively affected by vaping. You have asserted that really discreet and considerate vapers can do it without anyone noticing.

 

You haven't responded to people's actual stories except by getting bent out of shape at anyone arguing about vaping being as bad as smoking.

 

Forget the comparison to smoking. Please provide your alleged research about all particulates not going anywhere except your own lungs.

 

What people are angry at is what appears to us to be a highly delusional notion that vaping absolutely cannot affect, or be detected by, anyone else nearby. The discussion isn't about vaping in general--it is whether vaping should be allowed in the casino. Almost everyone has conceded it can still be in the outdoor areas.

 

You complain about the negative reactions to your posts, but you have never explained why people who have enjoyed "fume-free' casinos for decades on Celebrity should tolerate this change. Provide proof it cannot affect anyone else (including unpleasant odors) and I for one will happily drop my objections to your arguments.

Edited July 10, 2023 by mayleeman

[TeeRick]

12 hours ago, davekathy said:

The smokers and vapers have been pretty quiet on this thread. They might also be voicing their approval with the decision thru Emails and not wasting their time on CC. The yeas might (?) out number the nays. WAG. 

@davekathyto your point.  It is interesting.   This entire thread has been very negative about vaping in the casino - and IMO, rightly so.  Anti-vaping and anti-smoking emotions aside, are we close to understanding WHY Celebrity started this "experiment" on those two ships?  There are a lot of comments here about enhanced casino revenue as an assumption, probably a good one too.  So is that what they are actually measuring in this experiment?  Or a possible decrease in casino revenue from those who object and stay out of the casino?  Also what is the role of demographics?  It would be expected that most of us middle-age to older folks on CC would react negatively.  But what about the demographic (say 21-40 yrs?)  that might like vaping?  Did they give a lot of previous feedback to Celebrity for the case of allowing them to vape, thus launching the experiment?  So is it future revenue from these folks (target customers) with the poor assumption that the rest of us would not object? 

[megfla]

42 minutes ago, NutsAboutGolf said:

When does this so-called 8-week testing period end?  

I believe I read that the "test" ends August 20th.  Just in time for my Equinox sailing on the 27th...to hopefully be terminated.

[Silkroad]

10 hours ago, Daveywavey70 said:

I’m so sorry to hear that Silkroad. It’s so desperately sad. I still worry now as my dad used to come home in his work overalls covered in asbestos fibres and put them in the laundry basket. Who knows? I Still believe tough that the policy needn’t effect anybody if it is introduced responsibly. If vaping were permitted in part of the Casino that was clearly separated and there was a clear policy then it would harm nobody. The particles emitted are almost zero within 2 seconds. They just don’t travel. I Would actively encourage people to vape if it means they give up smoking. I’m sorry that my opinions have caused such a backlash but I won’t be bullied into silence. 

And I’m very sorry about your dad. Please don’t think everyone on these vaping threads is hostile towards vapers/smokers themselves. Instead, many of us are hostile to the prospect of being exposed the indoor vaping in the Celebrity casinos. Some of my favorite people- including my sister and some of my nieces & nephews- smoke or vape, but they do so outside. 
 

Given your experiences, you realize that particulates can cause lung damage. There’s also nicotine and all the other chemicals to consider. That’s my concern with being exposed to vaping indoors. Celebrity’s “test” suggests that casinos might be divided into vaping/non-vaping sections. This would be done with signs, not walls and a separate ventilation system. Aerosols and particulates are not controlled by signs, so Celebrity’s proposed vaping concept in disingenuous at best. I can tell that you genuinely believe that you can vape in a Celebrity casino without exposing others to vape aerosol and particulates. I don’t believe that is possible unless Celebrity builds a separate enclosure with a separate ventilation system. We’ve each expressed our opinions to Celebrity, and we’ve made our cases on this thread. I hope we can respectfully agree to disagree.

Edited July 10, 2023 by Silkroad

[1Virgo]

1 hour ago, NutsAboutGolf said:

When does this so-called 8-week testing period end?  

ends, supposedly, August 19 and August 20.    Forget which ship ends first

[davekathy]

10 hours ago, Daveywavey70 said:

In the interests of good will, I’m giving you the benefit of the doubt and assuming that you really aren’t aware of how offensive you are being. Yes it is a matter of life or death when people whose lives could be saved by switching from smoking to vaping. When you have held the hand of your father as he takes his last laboured breath you might not be so willing to mock people. Do you really think that your mockery is funny? 

I don't care who vapes or smokes. Not my place to tell others they need to quit.  I don't care what the long term effects of vaping is to the vaper.  Not even going to go there.  Just curious, why not switch to a nicotine patch or nicotine gum? 

[davekathy]

52 minutes ago, TeeRick said:

@davekathyto your point.  It is interesting.   This entire thread has been very negative about vaping in the casino - and IMO, rightly so.  Anti-vaping and anti-smoking emotions aside, are we close to understanding WHY Celebrity started this "experiment" on those two ships?  There are a lot of comments here about enhanced casino revenue as an assumption, probably a good one too.  So is that what they are actually measuring in this experiment?  Or a possible decrease in casino revenue from those who object and stay out of the casino?  Also what is the role of demographics?  It would be expected that most of us middle-age to older folks on CC would react negatively.  But what about the demographic (say 21-40 yrs?)  that might like vaping?  Did they give a lot of previous feedback to Celebrity for the case of allowing them to vape, thus launching the experiment?  So is it future revenue from these folks (target customers) with the poor assumption that the rest of us would not object? 

Agree, Celebrity hasn't been transparent about why they started this experiment. Maybe (WAG) there was a lot of negative feedback on PCSs from those that do smoke and vape concerning the casinos compared to RC. 

[markeb]

42 minutes ago, TeeRick said:

@davekathyto your point.  It is interesting.   This entire thread has been very negative about vaping in the casino - and IMO, rightly so.  Anti-vaping and anti-smoking emotions aside, are we close to understanding WHY Celebrity started this "experiment" on those two ships?  There are a lot of comments here about enhanced casino revenue as an assumption, probably a good one too.  So is that what they are actually measuring in this experiment?  Or a possible decrease in casino revenue from those who object and stay out of the casino?  Also what is the role of demographics?  It would be expected that most of us middle-age to older folks on CC would react negatively.  But what about the demographic (say 21-40 yrs?)  that might like vaping?  Did they give a lot of previous feedback to Celebrity for the case of allowing them to vape, thus launching the experiment?  So is it future revenue from these folks (target customers) with the poor assumption that the rest of us would not object? 

 

In 8 weeks with a convenience sample of already scheduled cruisers, they're really not going to get much data. I suppose the null is that there's no difference in revenue with or without vaping in the casino, so increased revenue would at least suggest vapers didn't leave the machines, and those opposed to vaping in fact didn't leave the casinos either. Decreased revenue would be the opposite. And from a statistics geek standpoint, if they just do a one tailed test, they'd never know if a decrease was relevant.

 

Objecting and continuing to cruise and play in the casino is ultimately an interesting but irrelevant observation. Although an 8 week test is going to be after final payment so people aren't going to not cruise this cruise because of the change. A significant change in onboard bookings might matter. But so far, most people on this thread are saying this isn't enough to make them not cruise Celebrity; they're not going to lose cruise revenue from CC members. So our little convenience sample here says this is only going to be about casino revenue.

[NutsAboutGolf]

Many companies are terrible at obtaining accurate data sampling and X is no different.  On a recent Beyond sailing, in the Q&A, someone complained about the lack of traditional balconies.  They responded with they're 20% more fuel efficient and stated that "only 27% ever open a stateroom balcony door".  So I ask "how did you reach that 27% conclusion, are the sensors on the balcony door fleet wide?"  They responded "no, that's what corporate tells us".

 

It was the same with the reduced offerings in the buffet during dinner.  They had one guy counting with a clicker at ONE front entrance doing their best to count but on the M-Class you have two front entrances, a side entrance and two exterior aft staircases

[jbcallender]

On 7/1/2023 at 10:44 PM, Stem to Stern said:

As one of their unofficial rebranding officers, I am working on a deal to exchange out the Kelly balcony chairs for hammocks (sorry, side tables will be replaced with floor-standing ashtrays.)

There's a lot of deck area to put up camping tents and electric grills for the extreme budget no-frills minded cruiser.

[TeeRick]

1 hour ago, Silkroad said:

I don’t believe that is possible unless Celebrity builds a separate enclosure with a separate ventilation system. We’ve each expressed our opinions to Celebrity, and we’ve made our cases on this thread. I hope we can respectfully agree to disagree.

I remember when restaurants and airplanes had open but separated smoking sections.  That did not really work out.  I also remember (in the 80's) when a large corporation I worked for actually built full enclosures for smoking with their own ventilation in the cafeteria.  We called them fishbowls.  Some airports did the same thing.  I guess we as a society are destined to repeat the past without learning from it!

[Charles4515]

2 hours ago, mayleeman said:

Forget the comparison to smoking. Please provide your alleged research about all particulates not going anywhere except your own lungs.

 

I recall long threads on Cruise Critic where smokers argued that second hand smoke did not harm non smokers. They had "research" to prove it. LOL. Addicts make all kinds of rationalizations  

 

 

[Silkroad]

27 minutes ago, TeeRick said:

I remember when restaurants and airplanes had open but separated smoking sections.  That did not really work out.  I also remember (in the 80's) when a large corporation I worked for actually built full enclosures for smoking with their own ventilation in the cafeteria.  We called them fishbowls.  Some airports did the same thing.  I guess we as a society are destined to repeat the past without learning from it!

I remember the same things, though I never worked in a place with a separate smoking enclosure. Instead, there were rooms divided by signs only. As you say, these were useless distinctions, especially on planes. I’m not advocating vaping enclosures, but they’d be more effective than signs partitioning the casino. I’m still clinging to the hope that Celebrity will decide not to pursue this decidedly unhealthy change to the smoking/vaping policy. 

[Spif Barwunkel]

Surely Celebrity would not cut off its nose to spite its face, while succumbing to the whims of a small minority and flagrantly fouling the vast majority.

[mac_tlc]

Just got off the phone with the Executive Office, returning their call to me from last week I had two issues -- the first didn't have a long discussion -- I expressed my feelings against the "no price protection" feature of the Beyond Redeployment, especially since those on a Reflection sailing were price protected onto Beyond (whose 6/8 day itinerary prices are higher than Reflection was ). Also that the TA affected folks have only a couple options, all more expensive on a pppd basis. No good reason (or any reason for that matter) was given, just that they aren't budging on that one.

 

Second, the vaping test...

I expressed my extreme disappointment on the test itself, and the fact that casino revenue may be the determining factor, when other factors can also be a factor on these specific 16 sailings. From the "slippery slope" and future changes, to the fact that the air will go where it wants to and not stay in any designated "vaping" area (just see how well the magical line on Royal works between the smoking and non-smoking sides!), to the unenviable position it will put the crew in to enforce such a ridiculous policy, and on and on. I did mention that it will force us to expand our searches when planning future cruises. 

 

I think she listened, but she is not the one that is going to make the decision. 

 

Everyone on this thread, and every one of their friend and family cruisers who are against this need to send an email. It takes two minutes. It's really our only avenue.

 

Let's hope on 8/20 we get some good news.

 

mac_tlc

[TXranchgal]

We sent our objection email today...   

• executiveoffice@celebrity.com

 

Mon 7/10/2023 11:49 AM

 

We are completely appalled by the Celebrity decision to allow smoking and/or vaping inside the ships.  We switched from Royal to Celebrity because the smoking  (especially in the casino) was so prevalent that it penetrated the entire ship.

 

I have asthma,  and on our Canadian cruise on Royal, – I had to use my inhaler daily.  Since the cruise was longer than a few days – the congestion turned into Bronchitis.  We tested for Covid – It was Negative – but it still took antibiotics to cure the infection caused by the smoke….

 

PLEASE keep Celebrity Non-Smoking and Non-Vaping.

 

We love Celebrity and have sailed so many times that we consider it “our” line.    Smoking will make it difficult to stay healthy on your ships…

 

Thank you for considering those of us that can not be around smoke or vape pollution.

Edited July 10, 2023 by TXranchgal
add info

[bEwAbG]

Former smoker here who started in the late 1990s and quit in 2010.  Never once in that period of time was I allowed to smoke inside any workplace.  Bars and restaurants in VA got rid of indoor smoking around the time I quit, which was 13 years ago at this point.  People my generation (late 40s) or younger are used to smoking outside.  And vapers have had to follow the smoking rules in every one of these instances, too.  If society has moved to that by this point, I don't understand any argument for regressing to allow this on X ships that have been smoke-free for years and years.  MGM has a non-smoking casino across the river in MD that by all accounts does very well.

[wineoclock]

Non smoking & non vaping indoor helps differentiate Celebrity from other lines. If they change this then we may as well look at other lines. We generally sail suites & dh is in the casino nightly. 

[Debbie Myers]

You may be right about the younger demographics they seek, but us "oldies" have time and money... they should think about us as well.

[Spif Barwunkel]

54 minutes ago, RichYak said:

"Hold my Bud Light" -Laura Hodges Bethge

..."while I'm at it, I'll raise you a deaf ear." 

Edited July 10, 2023 by Spif Barwunkel

[Smmessineo]

17 hours ago, davekathy said:

The smokers and vapers have been pretty quiet on this thread. They might also be voicing their approval with the decision thru Emails and not wasting their time on CC. The yeas might (?) out number the nays. WAG. 

Never assume. My husband and I are daily cigar smokers. We cruise exclusively on Celebrity , and one of the biggest reasons is the smoking policy. Celebrity provides wonderful outdoor spaces, on S and E class,  where people can smoke while not forcing it on  non-smokers. And we love that the casino is smoke free. I cringed when I saw this test program being rolled out. It is unfair to nonsmokers, divisive , and makes some nonsmokers become hostile to even  the  smokers who are quite happy with our peaceful little out of the way spots.  I am concerned that with enough backlash from this stupid test, the executives might even take away some of the nice outdoor smoking areas. So yeah, I'm writing to Celebrity.....to tell them this vaping indoors was a bad idea.

Edited July 10, 2023 by Smmessineo

[Georgia_Peaches]

I would like to hear from anyone on the current Equinox sailing who can confirm whether or not the vaping signs are still gone or have been returned to the casino now that last week's cruise is history.

[Spif Barwunkel]

36 minutes ago, Smmessineo said:

Never assume. My husband and I are daily cigar smokers. We cruise exclusively on Celebrity , and one of the biggest reasons is the smoking policy. Celebrity provides wonderful outdoor spaces, on S and E class,  where people can smoke while not forcing it on  non-smokers. And we love that the casino is smoke free. I cringed when I saw this test program being rolled out. It is unfair to nonsmokers, divisive , and makes some nonsmokers become hostile to even  the  smokers who are quite happy with our peaceful little out of the way spots.  I am concerned that with enough backlash from this stupid test, the executives might even take away some of the nice smoking areas. So yeah, I'm writing to Celebrity.....to tell them this vaping indoors was a bad idea.

Many of us non-smokers very much appreciate and respect a smoker's right to do so. Even more, I appreciate your attitude and consideration when enjoying a good cigar. Your comments are refreshing, and I am sure that they reflect the thoughts and feelings of many smokers. It is really quite easy to acquiesce, allowing enjoyment for all concerned, without threat or coercion.

Edited July 10, 2023 by Spif Barwunkel

[spiritkat090909]

I had already sent my email to executive office email... 

 

Thanks to FLYnSail for the reminder to go to the source and email Blue Chip Club. They are probably the ones saying that it isn't negatively affecting anyone.  So, as someone who plays a lot and brings friends who play a lot... maybe a complaint will at least get into the right place. The casino.