Has food quality declined industry-wide?

[JanR]

DW and I retired last August and since that time we have sailed on 14 cruises (including a world cruise).  Among the cruise lines we've sailed are MSC, Royal Caribbean, Oceania, Regent, Viking, and Atlas.  And while we would generally characterize the food across the spectrum as "good" (defining "good" as it was generally properly prepared, presented, and we finished the food without true criticism).  However, we are finding that it is more and more infrequent that we receive a dish that makes us sit up and exclaim "wow, that's good."  Further, we are finding that it is more and more frequent that we find a dish that is a "miss" or improperly cooked to the ordered temperature.

 

We don't think that it is because our palate has changed.  We do still have those "wow" experiences in land restaurants.  Nor do we think that one can chalk this up to the pandemic.  Cruising has been up and charging ahead for the last two years and even today on our current Oceania cruise, we left the dining room wondering where the good food has gone.

 

Thoughts?

[StollyBolly]

I agree.  Since 2011 we have sailed with Seabourn, Regent and Silversea.  I find 2 issues in my opinion. Is the actual quality of product being downgraded because of cost cutting.  Example….some meat cuts just not as tender.   And chefs trying to be so fancy with new ideas they lose how really good a dish prepared well does not need to be embellished with exotic ingredients for the sake of it. 

[GeezerCouple]

1 hour ago, StollyBolly said:

I agree.  Since 2011 we have sailed with Seabourn, Regent and Silversea.  I find 2 issues in my opinion. Is the actual quality of product being downgraded because of cost cutting.  Example….some meat cuts just not as tender.   And chefs trying to be so fancy with new ideas they lose how really good a dish prepared well does not need to be embellished with exotic ingredients for the sake of it. 

 

We have noticed for some years now (and not on cruise ships) that even some top restaurants have been creating dishes/menus with, uh, ultra-creative combinations of ingredients.

This started before Covid, and we attributed it back then to some sort of "race to be creative and different", and that was definitely an appropriate description!

But the combinations were often odd, as though "the more different the combined ingredients, the better".

 

We felt it was definitely a step down, and in some cases, a huge step down.  Forcing "novelty" without regard for whether ingredients worked together, and often discarding long-term favorites, or favorite combinations.

 

We haven't sailed since December, 2019, so we can't speak to whether what is described above is similar to this trend we've noticed or not.

 

GC

[VMax1700]

Locally, two Michelin starred restaurants have announced, in recent weeks, that they are changing the focus of their restaurants to bistro/tapas type establishments even if it means losing their stars.

Their reasons include the hugely increased cost of prime quality foods, staffing costs and general overhead increases (energy etc) leading to them being unable to provide the required quality plates at a price that would sustain a top class restaurant.  

Their options, they stated, were to reduce qualtiy or increase prices or change their focus.  As cruise lines can hardly change their focus on providing a MDR type meal and they are loathe to increase prices, then the onnly option remaining in to reduce quality.  Unfortunately it is the same everywhere.  Joe Public wants to pay as little as possible, but still get the best quality product.  Finding the middle market is difficult.

[cruisemom42]

Ever since I started cruising many years ago there has been a devolution of quality vs. cost on cruises with regard to food. From time to time major events (like Covid, inflation) accelerate that process. Cruise lines are always trying to reduce food costs so they can a) avoid raising rates for passengers and b) maximize profits.

 

I can honestly say that quality of items on offer has decreased, the quantity of food per meal has decreased, number of courses per meal has decreased, and dishes have been “simplified” with regard to the amount of effort and prep work required to make and assemble them.

 

I don’t tend to agree with the statements about “exotic” ingredients; I suspect they come from passengers with limited palates. I for one welcome new items to try and the addition of more fish and vegetarian meals as well as items from different cuisines.

[Heidi13]

The reduction in culinary standards has been ongoing for many years and it is all cost driven.

 

In addition to the obvious reductions in the quality of the ingredients, I have noted many other subtle differences.

 - Menus: the number of courses have been reduced considerably and also the number of options for each course. On one of my ships in the 1970's, we had a choice of 3 curries daily for lunch. Still had the usual other courses.

 - Another issue with menus is that many of the prime dishes are now included on the same evening menu. We used to have lobster night separate from filet night, etc. Now you often get the higher cost items in a single evening, so you can only order 1 of them.

 - Quantity: portions are much smaller, with minimal vegetables. On our last cruise we requested a bowl of steamed veggies every dinner.

 - Service: sadly, the days of exemplary silver service are long gone, as is the finishing of cooking at the table side.  

[StollyBolly]

11 hours ago, GeezerCouple said:

 

We have noticed for some years now (and not on cruise ships) that even some top restaurants have been creating dishes/menus with, uh, ultra-creative combinations of ingredients.

This started before Covid, and we attributed it back then to some sort of "race to be creative and different", and that was definitely an appropriate description!

But the combinations were often odd, as though "the more different the combined ingredients, the better".

 

We felt it was definitely a step down, and in some cases, a huge step down.  Forcing "novelty" without regard for whether ingredients worked together, and often discarding long-term favorites, or favorite combinations.

 

We haven't sailed since December, 2019, so we can't speak to whether what is described above is similar to this trend we've noticed or not.

 

GC

 

[StollyBolly]

You nailed it.   It’s a trend throughout the restaurant community.  

[Hlitner]

We would have agreed with the sentiments exprssed in this thread until our recent 18 day cruise on the new Explora Journey 1 (Explora Journeys Cruise Lines).  For those not familiar, this is a new luxury line, in the process of building six 900 passenger ships.  It is a wholly owned company of the MSC folks which means they have very deep pockets, are privately owned, and are not beholden to a board of directors or bankers.  The Aponte family, has made it clear that this line will stress luxury, quality, and very high quality cuisine.  Their ship does not even have a MDR, but rather has 4 sit-down restaurants, an expansive upscale lido, and a small venue that features cuisine from Michelin Starred guest chefs.

 

While we had some issues with the EJ product, the cuisine was amazing and at a level we have not experienced on any other cruise line.  DW and I found each of their dining venues to be quite amazing in that they all had very high quality.  While not everything was perfect, it was the first cruise ship where we would have been fine visiting any of these restaurants on land.  

 

I mention EJ1, because I think they have essentially tossed out a challenge to the luxury cruise industry.  The Luxury market is very competitive, and we are hoping that this new cruise line starts a positive trend.  Seabourn has already made some major changes (no way to know if this had anything to do with the new EJ competition) and we shall see if other lines follow suit.

 

As to the mass market lines, we agree that the trend (in cuisine) has been downhill for many years.  DW and I cruise many different lines, and not a single mass market line has impressed us (in terms of cuisine) for many years.  It is almost like they are racing against each other to see who can cut-back the most...in the shortest period of time.  Last spring when we spent 6 weeks on the Westerdam, there was lots of talk (at the bars) about cut-backs.  While a few of us thought the MDR food was better than we expected, we heard nobody say they would be willing to go to a land-based restaurant and pay for those meals.  While we can all agree that food/cuisine is subjective, I doubt if many would flock to a MDR quality restaurant..on land.

 

Hank

[Aquahound]

Notwithstanding Hanks example, I agree with the sentiment that the decline is industry wide.  DW and I don't even eat in MDRs anymore.  We only eat in specialty restaurants and if in a suite, in the suites dining room.  

 

There do seem to be some hidden gems out there that are still free though.  We've really enjoyed our casual dinners in the Solarium Bistro on Royal Caribbean.  

[JanR]

5 hours ago, Hlitner said:

We would have agreed with the sentiments exprssed in this thread until our recent 18 day cruise on the new Explora Journey 1 (Explora Journeys Cruise Lines).  For those not familiar, this is a new luxury line, in the process of building six 900 passenger ships.  It is a wholly owned company of the MSC folks which means they have very deep pockets, are privately owned, and are not beholden to a board of directors or bankers.  The Aponte family, has made it clear that this line will stress luxury, quality, and very high quality cuisine.  Their ship does not even have a MDR, but rather has 4 sit-down restaurants, an expansive upscale lido, and a small venue that features cuisine from Michelin Starred guest chefs.

 

While we had some issues with the EJ product, the cuisine was amazing and at a level we have not experienced on any other cruise line.  DW and I found each of their dining venues to be quite amazing in that they all had very high quality.  While not everything was perfect, it was the first cruise ship where we would have been fine visiting any of these restaurants on land.  

 

I mention EJ1, because I think they have essentially tossed out a challenge to the luxury cruise industry.  The Luxury market is very competitive, and we are hoping that this new cruise line starts a positive trend.  Seabourn has already made some major changes (no way to know if this had anything to do with the new EJ competition) and we shall see if other lines follow suit.

 

As to the mass market lines, we agree that the trend (in cuisine) has been downhill for many years.  DW and I cruise many different lines, and not a single mass market line has impressed us (in terms of cuisine) for many years.  It is almost like they are racing against each other to see who can cut-back the most...in the shortest period of time.  Last spring when we spent 6 weeks on the Westerdam, there was lots of talk (at the bars) about cut-backs.  While a few of us thought the MDR food was better than we expected, we heard nobody say they would be willing to go to a land-based restaurant and pay for those meals.  While we can all agree that food/cuisine is subjective, I doubt if many would flock to a MDR quality restaurant..on land.

 

Hank

Hank,

 

We are glad to hear of your experience on Explora Journeys as we will be sailing on her in January!

[Hlitner]

32 minutes ago, JanR said:

Hank,

 

We are glad to hear of your experience on Explora Journeys as we will be sailing on her in January!

You are in for an interesting, and different experience.   For our two cruises, the ship was never more than 1/3 full, which made it nice in terms of the dining venues.  Although we were still limited, in terms of reservations at both Marble & Co, and Sakura, the reality was that we could just show-up at any venue (without a reservation) and be seated.  Many of us do have some concerns about how it will all work when the ship gets closer to its 900 passenger limit.

 

Hank

[Harry Lake]

12 hours ago, cruisemom42 said:

I don’t tend to agree with the statements about “exotic” ingredients; I suspect they come from passengers with limited palates. I for one welcome new items to try and the addition of more fish and vegetarian meals as well as items from different cuisines.

THIS^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

[sparks1093]

On 11/30/2023 at 7:58 AM, cruisemom42 said:

 

 

I don’t tend to agree with the statements about “exotic” ingredients; I suspect they come from passengers with limited palates. I for one welcome new items to try and the addition of more fish and vegetarian meals as well as items from different cuisines.

Evidently having a limited palate saves me a ton of money, so I'm good🤣. (Although I do like trying new things when given the opportunity.)

Edited December 1, 2023 by sparks1093

[Joebucks]

I think one of the most annoying parts of cruise discussion is that cruising is this parallel world. Only on cruises are people fighting, or dying. Only on cruises do they control costs, or raise prices. These things are so much more interesting, infuriating, or scary on a boat. 

 

The truth is, food quality has gone down almost everywhere. It certainly hasn't gone up. I've gotten pretty sick of eating bland $20+ entrees at restaurants.

 

With that said, considering all things constant, I was surprised my last cruise food was better quality than I expected. The internet makes it sound like they are service tv dinners now. 

[mnocket]

On 11/30/2023 at 7:19 AM, Heidi13 said:

Another issue with menus is that many of the prime dishes are now included on the same evening menu. We used to have lobster night separate from filet night, etc. Now you often get the higher cost items in a single evening, so you can only order 1 of them.

lol  I thought I was paranoid for noticing this🤔

[Toofarfromthesea]

I'm old enough to remember when eating out was something special, rather than the routine norm it has become.  And I think familiarity breeds contempt.

[BruceMuzz]

Has passenger quality declined industry-wide?

[ldubs]

2 hours ago, BruceMuzz said:

Has passenger quality declined industry-wide?

 

Gee, I guess we are all unworthy.  

[Honolulu Blue]

2 hours ago, BruceMuzz said:

Has passenger quality declined industry-wide?

I think if you ask the grizzled veterans who tend to inhabit boards like this, many would .say yes. Certainly there are more cruisers in proportion to population these days, and more new cruisers who don't know all the "hidden" rules of cruising.

[sparks1093]

8 hours ago, BruceMuzz said:

Has passenger quality declined industry-wide?

It mirrors society as a whole.

[ontheweb]

9 hours ago, BruceMuzz said:

Has passenger quality declined industry-wide?

That is an interesting question. Would the answer be the same for all cruise lines? And in fact, how do you define quality when it comes to passengers?

[Harry Lake]

4 hours ago, ontheweb said:

And in fact, how do you define quality when it comes to passengers?

I know for sure that different GROUPS define it differently.

[leaveitallbehind]

"Decline" of course is subjective.  And as pointed out, cost control measures (and other factors) have affected the menu offerings and selection as well.  But I think it is more of a shift in food quality v a decline that has been building over the years since the introduction of the specialty restaurants.

 

When we first started cruising 31 years ago, aside from the buffet and some pizza and other snack-type offerings, the MDR was the only restaurant on board.  As such, the food quality, course offerings, and menu variety were, IMO, of very good quality.   

 

As the specialty restaurants were introduced the options (at least early on with RCCL) were Italian-based and steakhouse.  As they grew in popularity - as well as in level of surcharge - these venues became the more premium level of food offerings, and the MDR began trimming its options and menu variety and became more "basic" in what was offered. 

 

Over time, the addition of more specialty restaurants coupled with the cost control constraints and other factors has resulted in what I am calling the shift in quality whereby the specialty restaurants, by being able to offset the higher quality food costs with their upcharges, have become the higher quality venues v what I see now as the more basic, smaller portions, less higher end variety resulting in the MDR as the base fare inclusive food venue.

 

This shift, at least in our taste and current preference, has resulted in our primary choice in dining now to be the specialty restaurants v the MDR, which - given the evolution of this over the years - is probably exactly what the cruise lines wanted.  

Edited December 2, 2023 by leaveitallbehind

[Mary229]

Food and energy suffered large inflationary pressures in recent years.  I am not surprised that food costs weigh on menus.  Also I think trends change, the younger generation consumed much more fast food and convenience food while growing up and continue to consume far more convenience food as adults.  I never imagined that macaroni and cheese would be a culinary highlight.  
 

From the USDA:

In 2021, food-at-home prices increased 3.5 percent and food-away-from-home prices increased 4.5 percent. The CPI for all food increased an average of 3.9 percent in 2021. Of all the CPI food-at-home categories tracked by the U.S. Department of Agriculture (USDA), Economic Research Service (ERS), the beef and veal category had the largest relative price increase (9.3 percent) and the fresh vegetables category the smallest (1.1 percent). No food categories decreased in price in 2021 compared with their prices in 2020.

In 2022, food prices increased by 9.9 percent. Food-at-home prices increased by 11.4 percent, while food-away-from-home prices increased by 7.7 percent. All food price categories tracked by USDA, ERS increased by more than 5 percent, and all food categories grew faster than their historical average rate.