Classic Drink Package - Significant Cuts in what's included (Threads Merged)

[rubydoobydoo]

I am fairly sure that all these drinks lists will say they are subject to change and availability somewhere to cover themselves

 

It will be interesting to see if the changes apply just to Eclipse, and what is happening on board now regarding the drinks available

[cle-guy]

Not if you book in the UK http://www.celebritycruises.co.uk/images/UK_BOOKING_070514_tcm20-18087.pdf

 

Straight from the contract:

 

1. Booking your holiday

1.1 How do I make a booking?

To book your chosen holiday, contact one of our Personal

Cruise Consultants (not transport contract)

 

and

 

We both agree that any dispute, claim or other matter arising

out of or in connection with your contract or your holiday with

us will only be dealt with by the Courts of England and Wales.

The contract between us is governed by English law (Not US)

 

 

What you book in the US is not the same as the UK and this is why the cruise lines keep telling us it is more expensive to book here

 

Thanks for these links. First off, we have FINALLY found a UK resident who actually accepts the fact that there is a reason for higher fares in the UK due to UK regulations. I've never seen anyone accept that here, and always have been argued against that when I have noted it elsewhere.

 

Also reading the Booking Conditions I see nowhere in it that says exactly what goods and services are specifically to be delivered once on board. I do see language in at least 2 places that the brochures are constantly changing and one must be aware that the brochure in place at time of booking is what entails the contract terms. Further, elsewhere there is a clause that allows one to cancel the cruise for a full and prompt refund if the changes are warranted to be significant. They further go on to define significant, and then give examples, that do not in any fashion get to amenities, only ports of call issues (which leads credence that the essence of the agreement is in fact related to the carriage of a person from a point to another point, not the cost or quality of amenities on board).

 

Since the Booking Conditions refer to the brochure, if you read the brochure currently out (here is Europe as an example: http://viewer.zmags.com/publication/d4a4e42f#/d4a4e42f/118 ) page 119 under pricing giver them the right to modify pricing and EVEN the right to add a surcharge if they want to - even after final payment has been collected. It further spells out what is considered part of the cruise vacation price, and things like Michaels, price lists and other amenities are not mentioned. What is mentioned is "ocean transportation, cabin, most meals and some beverages". I'm going to assume similar language has been in place in older brochures for several years.

 

And finally there is an arbitration clause. Most certainly an arbiter isn't going to offer compensation due to Michaels lounge being gone, or an increase in prices of beverages once boarded.

[wallie5446]

We all understand things change, but this is a bit sneaky in my opinion :(

 

So with the ability to book a cruise thru the end of 2015 right now, when is the time to make any changes you would not say are a bit sneaky?

[jagoffee]

I'm not particularly upset with these changes. Stuff happens when you plan so far in advance, and we're not terribly picky about brands,

But it's no "SO little" for the upgrade in a longer cruise. $22 X 16 days X 2 people = a lot of money, IMHO.

 

$352 for a 16 day cruise. Must be close to the OBC from your TA or Celebrity. Doesn't seem like a lot to many of us. Basically the same as the service charge/gratuity for the same period. IMO cruising remains a great value and the opportunity for a free Classic drink package with a minimal cost to premium makes it even a better value.

 

Another way to look at it is Celebrity is offering a Premium drink package for a $11.50 a day pp surcharge or another Perk if you prefer. I never have found the choices in the Classic package to be enough. I like the better wines and beers. So it is a non issue for us. Based on the comments on this thread I am surprised at the number of cruisers that stay with just the Classic package.

 

Still a great deal if all on board bookings include an OBC and an opportunity to purchase a Premium Drink package for $11.50 pp a day. I would take it every time.

[ghstudio]

So with the ability to book a cruise thru the end of 2015 right now, when is the time to make any changes you would not say are a bit sneaky?

 

That's an easy one.....announce that a change will go into effect in 30 days and give folks the opportunity to cancel their paid packages or change to a different selection in 1-2-3 as a courtesy, even though it's after final payment.

 

The problem isn't really that the prices went up, it's that they went from free to $8.50. If celebrity just allowed classic drink package holders to pay the difference rather than force them to pay the full amount, they would a) probably have a much better program; b) have folks speaking positively about that program rather than what we've seen here and perhaps most important, with the new prices, they probably would actually make more $'s then "forcing" folks to pay $10 a day to upgrade.

 

On that last point....say I have the classic package and order two martinis at the martini bar...delta price over the classic limit is $3 each. I order two glasses of wine in the MDR....delta price to classic limit...$3 each. That's $12 extra being paid by a classic drink package person, vs $10 if they had upgraded. Not sure the folks in HQ got that decision right.....maybe it's worth a relook....and this entire thread could be erased from our minds.....

Edited May 12, 2014 by ghstudio

[jkgourmet]

$352 for a 16 day cruise. Must be close to the OBC from your TA or Celebrity. Doesn't seem like a lot to many of us. Basically the same as the service charge/gratuity for the same period. IMO cruising remains a great value and the opportunity for a free Classic drink package with a minimal cost to premium makes it even a better value.

 

Another way to look at it is Celebrity is offering a Premium drink package for a $11.50 a day pp surcharge or another Perk if you prefer. I never have found the choices in the Classic package to be enough. I like the better wines and beers. So it is a non issue for us. Based on the comments on this thread I am surprised at the number of cruisers that stay with just the Classic package.

 

Still a great deal if all on board bookings include an OBC and an opportunity to purchase a Premium Drink package for $11.50 pp a day. I would take it every time.

 

You're reserving high end suites, utilizing the extra cost speciality restaurants regularly and flying business or first class, right?

 

I'm NOT surprised so many stay with the Classic package. But I am ALWAYS surprised at how much more people pay for cruising than we do. It's not a matter of not being able to afford more expensive cabins, etc. It's a matter of priorities. And a lack of desire to piss money away on things that hold no real value TO US.

 

BUT I still say $352 isn't spare change.

 

Ghs makes a GREAT POINT in post #105

Edited May 12, 2014 by jkgourmet

[neptuno]

..........BUT I still say $352 isn't spare change.

 

I was told the upgrade to Premium would be $11.50pp/day($23). So, for our seven day cruise it will cost an extra $161us to get the brands that were originally included in the Classic package. Will it ruin our vacation, no, but it's the principle of the matter. "Bait and Switch" is illegal.

[nomad098]

Thanks for these links. First off, we have FINALLY found a UK resident who actually accepts the fact that there is a reason for higher fares in the UK due to UK regulations. I've never seen anyone accept that here, and always have been argued against that when I have noted it elsewhere.

 

Also reading the Booking Conditions I see nowhere in it that says exactly what goods and services are specifically to be delivered once on board. I do see language in at least 2 places that the brochures are constantly changing and one must be aware that the brochure in place at time of booking is what entails the contract terms. Further, elsewhere there is a clause that allows one to cancel the cruise for a full and prompt refund if the changes are warranted to be significant. They further go on to define significant, and then give examples, that do not in any fashion get to amenities, only ports of call issues (which leads credence that the essence of the agreement is in fact related to the carriage of a person from a point to another point, not the cost or quality of amenities on board).

 

Since the Booking Conditions refer to the brochure, if you read the brochure currently out (here is Europe as an example: http://viewer.zmags.com/publication/d4a4e42f#/d4a4e42f/118 ) page 119 under pricing giver them the right to modify pricing and EVEN the right to add a surcharge if they want to - even after final payment has been collected. It further spells out what is considered part of the cruise vacation price, and things like Michaels, price lists and other amenities are not mentioned. What is mentioned is "ocean transportation, cabin, most meals and some beverages". I'm going to assume similar language has been in place in older brochures for several years.

 

And finally there is an arbitration clause. Most certainly an arbiter isn't going to offer compensation due to Michaels lounge being gone, or an increase in prices of beverages once boarded.

 

But what you are doing is taking the contract as a stand alone document, this does not take into account consumer protection laws or in the case of cruises EU directives.

 

In the UK anything advertised in brochures, on the internet, on bill boards and numerous other media also form part of the contract in law

 

The contract must meet the test of these numerous consumer laws

 

Celebrity only have to imply something is part of your booking and it becomes part of the contract

 

Royal Caribbean show all the fun stuff on their TV adverts from Freedom, Oasis and Quantum class of ships but have to have a disclaimer saying something like "not all activities and facilities available on all ships" in a certain type face of a certain size because if they did not this would cause them to fall foul of consumer law as it forms part of the contract

 

I do not think those outside of the UK realise how strong UK consumer protection is. It is both a help and a hindrance

 

Under UK and EU law a cruise is and of it self a package holiday being both your transport and your accommodation

 

An arbiter only comes into play if you are looking for financial compensation

 

What Celebrity have seem to have done is breach UK law which would be taken up by the relevant regulatory bodies, if true nobody would get financial compensation but Celebrity could be fined a large amount of money and the bad press that comes with it.

 

I think there has been a mix up in communication along the way and Celebrity UK have put out something they shouldn't have

 

Royal Caribbean UK are just as bad they told UK customers over and over again that ladies could not bring "Hair straighteners" until it was pointed out to them that when asked RCI CEO had stated that this was no problem on his blog and now they have amended their website and advice

Edited May 12, 2014 by nomad098

[SWORRUB1]

, what is the plan?

 

 

 

Hahahahahahahaha good joke!

 

You dont have to do everything that you say you will you know!;)

....just ask Celebrity re Drinks packages!

 

Would absolutely love though to find out the Trading Standards view, now that bit is serious!

 

PS still there today on the website

 

Why choose the drinks package?

 

If you plan on chilling out and relaxing with a drink in hand then we recommend selecting the Classic Alcoholic Beverage Package. Valued at up to $1500 on a 14 night sailing, this package offers fantastic value for money, not to mention an incredible array of beverages such Bacardi, Jack Daniels, Johnny Walker Red, Corona, Beck's and Heineken. While those who prefer wine can enjoy a 15% discount on all wines by the bottle purchased onboard, the package is also great for non-alcoholic beverages with drinks like espresso, cappuccino, tonic, orange juice, Coke and more also included. To see all the options check out our drinks menu.

Edited May 12, 2014 by SWORRUB1

[wpgcycler]

Hahahahahahahaha good joke!

 

You dont have to do everything that you say you will you know!;)

....just ask Celebrity re Drinks packages!

 

Would absolutely love though to find out the Trading Standards view, now that bit is serious!

 

PS still there today on the website

 

Why choose the drinks package?

 

If you plan on chilling out and relaxing with a drink in hand then we recommend selecting the Classic Alcoholic Beverage Package. Valued at up to $1500 on a 14 night sailing, this package offers fantastic value for money, not to mention an incredible array of beverages such Bacardi, Jack Daniels, Johnny Walker Red, Corona, Beck's and Heineken. While those who prefer wine can enjoy a 15% discount on all wines by the bottle purchased onboard, the package is also great for non-alcoholic beverages with drinks like espresso, cappuccino, tonic, orange juice, Coke and more also included. To see all the options check out our drinks menu.

 

Also still there on the website:

 

Baileys Irish Cream

$7.00

 

 

They really do need to clean up their act.

[cruisestitch]

Everyone on this thread, be sure to see kevinyork's posts:

 

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?p=42740369&posted=1#post42740369

[Balloon Man]

Thanks for these links. First off, we have FINALLY found a UK resident who actually accepts the fact that there is a reason for higher fares in the UK due to UK regulations. I've never seen anyone accept that here, and always have been argued against that when I have noted it elsewhere.

 

Also reading the Booking Conditions I see nowhere in it that says exactly what goods and services are specifically to be delivered once on board. I do see language in at least 2 places that the brochures are constantly changing and one must be aware that the brochure in place at time of booking is what entails the contract terms. Further, elsewhere there is a clause that allows one to cancel the cruise for a full and prompt refund if the changes are warranted to be significant. They further go on to define significant, and then give examples, that do not in any fashion get to amenities, only ports of call issues (which leads credence that the essence of the agreement is in fact related to the carriage of a person from a point to another point, not the cost or quality of amenities on board).

 

Since the Booking Conditions refer to the brochure, if you read the brochure currently out (here is Europe as an example: http://viewer.zmags.com/publication/d4a4e42f#/d4a4e42f/118 ) page 119 under pricing giver them the right to modify pricing and EVEN the right to add a surcharge if they want to - even after final payment has been collected. It further spells out what is considered part of the cruise vacation price, and things like Michaels, price lists and other amenities are not mentioned. What is mentioned is "ocean transportation, cabin, most meals and some beverages". I'm going to assume similar language has been in place in older brochures for several years.

 

And finally there is an arbitration clause. Most certainly an arbiter isn't going to offer compensation due to Michaels lounge being gone, or an increase in prices of beverages once boarded.

 

This post saddens me. It seems to suggest the company's Booking Conditions are gospel. All hail the company's terms and conditions. "We can murder you and/or take the contents of the safe". OK, a slight exaggeration, but you take the point.

 

I always hesitate before confronting a fellow CC member, but - so far as UK law is concerned (don't know about Aussie laws) - he is not making sense.

 

The laws under which a contract is agreed - in my case UK - are not subject to diminution by a company's T&Cs. Sorry if it isn't the same down under.

 

"Roll over and die (assuming you have medical insurance) is just what companies want. Why make it easy?

[wallie5446]

This post saddens me. It seems to suggest the company's Booking Conditions are gospel. All hail the company's terms and conditions. "We can murder you and/or take the contents of the safe". OK, a slight exaggeration, but you take the point.

 

I always hesitate before confronting a fellow CC member, but - so far as UK law is concerned (don't know about Aussie laws) - he is not making sense.

 

The laws under which a contract is agreed - in my case UK - are not subject to diminution by a company's T&Cs. Sorry if it isn't the same down under.

 

"Roll over and die (assuming you have medical insurance) is just what companies want. Why make it easy?

 

Ok, so will you take lead on the Class Action Suit? Then we can join as seen fit.

[Gingerbint]

That's not the point.

 

It would cost us $138pp to upgrade to get a simple Bailey's coffee at night and a Hot Chocolate for me in the mornings. No one had answered my question on the HC, so I am still assuming it is not included in the Classic anymore.

You will be pleased to know that Hot Chocolate from Café Al Bacio is included in the Classic, most of the coffees are apart from liquer ones.

 

As far as I know, the Booking on Board promo goes through 2016, or to the latest open scheduled sailing dates. A 2016 date is one of the trips we planned to book onboard. As I mentioned earlier, we would book onboard to receive the 1-2-3/PYP and OBC. Of course, booking now, we will know what the package does not include - if we decide to book. However, that same package advertised today may change again by 2016. :rolleyes:

 

The new offer they are promoting is OBC (amount dependant on number of nights you cruise) plus your choice of either the Classic beverage package or Free gratuities or further OBC up to max of $300 - this is when booking a future cruise on board ship - the new thing for us UK cruisers is that it is now changeable as in you can book your cruise and pay you £300 (still non refundable) deposit but now at no extra cost you can change you cruise to another taking the 'on board booking benefit' with you. Before UK cruisers were not able to change a booked cruise to another without any monetary loss

[chamima]

Everyone on this thread, be sure to see kevinyork's posts:

 

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?p=42740369&posted=1#post42740369

 

What a mess!

What is Celebrity thinking?

[HelenREMfan]

Thanks Cruisestitch for posting that link..... and well done to Kevin for posting the info. At last some concrete and it seems accurate info so people can start thinking re this.

 

I see Baileys isn't included. I could quite happily cope with what is provided I suppose but for that.

 

Now.... considering that I have had to order all sorts of different currencies for the Baltic + get quite some $$$s for onboard tipping and costs etc..... that when I did a slight upgrade and didn't get any drop in price because I would have lost the attractive 1,2,3 Go promotion I had chosen; this holiday is not a "cheapie"! I think it is a little unacceptable the folk choosing to have digs at the people who are upset at these changes. Yes I am sure (hope) we will have a wonderful holiday but this comes along with other - yes individually minor concerns...but as they are all hitting at once..... they are building up to a good few things. An additional $336 isn't a "drop in the ocean" if one choose to upgrade to premium. The problem I see with the classic package now is that if one erroneously selects a drink not in the new package, one then pays the whole cost of the drink. I repeat that this is where I feel Celebrity isn't being fair and in my opinion I feel they should just charge the additional cost of the higher priced drink. No loss to Celebrity surely - it would then I feel placate many of the people who feel short changed right now. If a person had chosen the $XXX on board credit and gratuities there wouldn't have been such an issue I reckon or has the cost of the Shore tours increased too?

[Iamthesea]

Thank you to everyone that have posted about the Hot Chocolate being available in Café al Bacio. Although it is not listed in the new menus, I feel better and my tummy thanks you. :D

 

Interesting new link from Kevin.

 

I think that we will book Future Passages from now on and get the OBC. Then we will wait for closer to sailings/lowers prices and book. We can then pay by the drink as we have in the past.

[jagoffee]

You're reserving high end suites, utilizing the extra cost speciality restaurants regularly and flying business or first class, right?

 

I'm NOT surprised so many stay with the Classic package. But I am ALWAYS surprised at how much more people pay for cruising than we do. It's not a matter of not being able to afford more expensive cabins, etc. It's a matter of priorities. And a lack of desire to piss money away on things that hold no real value TO US.

 

BUT I still say $352 isn't spare change.

 

Ghs makes a GREAT POINT in post #105

 

I certainly did not mean to imply that it was spare change just not necessarily a lot of money as you stated in your previous post. Especially when you consider all the OBC/discounts that are usually available.

 

I do fly Business Class on long flights if I can get an award ticket or award upgrade. I have never paid for Business Class. I have never cruised in a High End Suite, but I did take advantage of a last minute Suite GTY (less than $100 extra) and cruised in a SS2 once. And I am going to try an Aft corner SS1. I usually cruise in a Balcony category, but have cruised in a CC and AC.

On a two week cruise I usually dine in a specialty restaurant twice.

 

We are just cruisers who found even the previous Classic Wine selection to be too limiting. We also enjoy a good martini and beer.

 

I certainly agree on it being a matter of priorities. We find the $11.50 to be a good purchase for our priorities.

[ghstudio]

Ok, so will you take lead on the Class Action Suit? Then we can join as seen fit.

 

no, you can't join because Balloon Man is in the UK which has it's (significantly stricter) laws and you are in the US. Further, the US contract undoubtedly says you can't bring a class actions suit, in fact you can't bring any suit. Finally, in the UK, I believe an individual would not bring suit in this case...the government would investigate and bring suit.

 

Why are you baiting someone from another country who has laws that differ from yours (and mine) with contracts that differ from yours (and mine)?

Edited May 12, 2014 by ghstudio

[wallie5446]

no, you can't join because Balloon Man is in the UK which has it's (significantly stricter) laws and you are in the US. Further, the US contract undoubtedly says you can't bring a class actions suit, in fact you can't bring any suit. Finally, in the UK, I believe an individual would not bring suit in this case...the government would investigate and bring suit.

 

Why are you baiting someone from another country who has laws that differ from yours (and mine) with contracts that differ from yours (and mine)?

 

Baiting? Please! I have no knowlwdge nor profess to of what can be done in any legal setting anywhere. I did not bring up law, lawers, suits, filing against, bait n switch, ect. But some have, so I asked who has the backbone to start the ball rolling, be it in the US, UK, Australia, where ever one is at. Yet no one will raise their hand and be a leader, only a poster on the Cruise Critic boards.

 

The only thing I can do is get off my seat, and vote with my feet, if that is what I desire to do. Baiting, shoot, the wifester is still mad I wont go fishing no more!

 

I just dont need liquor that bad to enjoy a cruise.

Edited May 12, 2014 by wallie5446

[Pushka]

Consumer issues like this are not class actions in Australia and nor do individuals have to spend money on lawyers. Bait and switch tactics are illegal here. All it takes is a phone call, email or letter to our Consumer Affairs Departments. Easily done. And done.

Edited May 12, 2014 by Pushka

[lexdisic]

The only thing I can do is get off my seat, and vote with my feet, if that is what I desire to do. Baiting, shoot, the wifester is still mad I wont go fishing no more!

 

I just dont need liquor that bad to enjoy a cruise.

 

+1

 

Apparently, some might - especially when its "free"

 

Getting my boots - enough of this nonsense :p

[NLH Arizona]

baiting? Please! i have no knowlwdge nor profess to of what can be done in any legal setting anywhere. i did not bring up law, lawers, suits, filing against, bait n switch, ect. But some have, so i asked who has the backbone to start the ball rolling, be it in the us, uk, australia, where ever one is at. Yet no one will raise their hand and be a leader, only a poster on the cruise critic boards.

 

The only thing i can do is get off my seat, and vote with my feet, if that is what i desire to do. Baiting, shoot, the wifester is still mad i wont go fishing no more!

 

I just dont need liquor that bad to enjoy a cruise.

+2.

[kdog3ss]

I normally drink only Corona. First I wasn't sure if there would be any limes for our cruise in December due to the shortage, now not sure if even the beer will be available in our classic package.

[cle-guy]

But what you are doing is taking the contract as a stand alone document, this does not take into account consumer protection laws or in the case of cruises EU directives.

 

In the UK anything advertised in brochures, on the internet, on bill boards and numerous other media also form part of the contract in law

 

The contract must meet the test of these numerous consumer laws

 

Celebrity only have to imply something is part of your booking and it becomes part of the contract

 

Royal Caribbean show all the fun stuff on their TV adverts from Freedom, Oasis and Quantum class of ships but have to have a disclaimer saying something like "not all activities and facilities available on all ships" in a certain type face of a certain size because if they did not this would cause them to fall foul of consumer law as it forms part of the contract

 

I do not think those outside of the UK realise how strong UK consumer protection is. It is both a help and a hindrance

 

Under UK and EU law a cruise is and of it self a package holiday being both your transport and your accommodation

 

What Celebrity have seem to have done is breach UK law which would be taken up by the relevant regulatory bodies, if true nobody would get financial compensation but Celebrity could be fined a large amount of money and the bad press that comes with it.

 

If RCI and X have broken so many consumer protection laws in the UK, with such a presence there, certainly by now we'd have heard of at least ONE decision against the line for any of the bait and switch changes etc. everyone is cpomplaing of. The lack of a single instance of the UK oe EU authorities punishing X for removal of Michaels Club, or changing brands of liquor on offer seems to lead credence that those laws truly have no application here.

 

And as I pointed out, the contract is far more than the Booking conditions, those call the Brochure specifically into play, which specifically states things are subject to change, and that they only offer ocean transport, most meals, some beverages. This is the equivalent of the disclaimer you note in RCI ads, as it is printed right in the cruise brochure, which the Booking Conditions specifically point to as the determiner of the cruise offering.

 

Let's apply this to the airlines, when they started charging for luggage is that an infraction? When the commercials show fast lines in the new Terminal 5 at Heathrow, and I show up and there are more than the 12 people I saw in the commercial on TV, can I have the consumer protection authority step in and change that? What about when airlines switch alliances with only 3 to 6 months notice and I had booked 10 months out? What about when the airline shows pictures of a fancy lounge but my lounge is not that one since my particular flight left from a terminal without that one?

 

It all boils down to materiality....and amenities such as Michales and certain branded beverages are immaterial in regards to the overall cruise experience. If I'm wrong, we will see X and RCI pay huge fines to the UK and EU authorities for these matters....but I do not see that coming. Based on the number of comments in this and other threads here, there is fare more than enough evidence to press the issue with the UK authorities...yet nothing has happened.