NCL stirs up the gratuity game

[SantaFeFan]

A recent news article on CC reports that NCL has introduced a policy where anyone who wants to remove their gratuities must do so by contacting the cruise line AFTER the cruise is over. The article has a very active readers comments section. http://www.cruisecritic.com/news/news.cfm?ID=6529

 

I am not an NCL fan, but for this I think they have done the right thing. All cruise lines should take this approach. Then the cheapskates will have to make that extra effort to stiff the crew.

Edited September 15, 2015 by SantaFeFan

[CPT Trips]

I hope they take the next step and roll it into the price of the cruise.

Fare - $xxxx

Port fees - $xxx

Taxes - $xxx

DSC - $xxx

_____

Total due - $xxxx

[dbvirago]

I have never stiffed a crew and tip at least as much overall as the included gratuities, but we have always had them removed from the bill and done it by cash for several reasons.

 

1. If I am tipping someone, I want to put cash in their hand, not assume someone somewhere is going to do it.

2. We almost always adjust the tip for some, better service gets better tips. Worse service gets smaller tips. Just like every place else on the planet.

3. I am not going to tip the maitre'd unless he or she provides some extra service. First, they are management and second, I usually don't see them at all or rarely.

 

I do agree that if they are going to force you to include them, that it should be rolled into the price.

[SantaFeFan]

I have never stiffed a crew and tip at least as much overall as the included gratuities, but we have always had them removed from the bill and done it by cash for several reasons.

 

1. If I am tipping someone, I want to put cash in their hand, not assume someone somewhere is going to do it.

2. We almost always adjust the tip for some, better service gets better tips. Worse service gets smaller tips. Just like every place else on the planet.

3. I am not going to tip the maitre'd unless he or she provides some extra service. First, they are management and second, I usually don't see them at all or rarely.

 

I do agree that if they are going to force you to include them, that it should be rolled into the price.

 

What you are doing is a complete waste of time. On virtually all cruise lines, if autotips are removed, any cash tips given to the crew MUST be turned over to the supervisor to be pooled and shared as appropriate to the people who support the crew you deal with. By giving them the money in cash, you do two very critical things:

 

1) The removal of tips implies you are dissatisfied with the service levels you are getting. Anyone who is assigned as your service staff will be looked at as providing inferior service, which can affect their promotion opportunities.

 

2) You have now added to the service staff's work load. They now have to report those cash tips, a step they would not have to do if the autotips were kept in place. You have one more unnecessary thing the must deal with.

 

If you leave autotips in place, and give ADDITIONAL tips, then in most cases, the staff can keep it as a "bonus".

 

All of this has been well documented in many threads over the years, and has been substantiated by several cruise ship employees who often post on CC.

 

Another important point: based on what people have reported over the years, when they insist on cash only, they typically end up giving less than the amounts they would have paid with autotips. For a seven day cruise at about $12 per person, the cash tips should total at least $168 per couple. Very few people report giving anything close to that. So, the bottom line is that in many cases the crew is given less than they would have, and the 'giver' keeps the rest for himself. Not quite fair, in my opinion.

 

So leave the autotips in place. Then give more in cash if you want to give them a bonus. And deal with service issues when the occur, and not at the end of the cruise by removing tips.

Edited September 15, 2015 by SantaFeFan

[CruiserBruce]

Popcorn is ON!! :D:D;)!!

[Keith1010]

As they say it is what it is.

 

Life is short. Don't sweat it.

 

Keith

[Arzeena]

A recent news article on CC reports that NCL has introduced a policy where anyone who wants to remove their gratuities must do so by contacting the cruise line AFTER the cruise is over. The article has a very active readers comments section. http://www.cruisecritic.com/news/news.cfm?ID=6529

 

I am not an NCL fan, but for this I think they have done the right thing. All cruise lines should take this approach. Then the cheapskates will have to make that extra effort to stiff the crew.

 

I agree!

[Arzeena]

I hope they take the next step and roll it into the price of the cruise.

Fare - $xxxx

Port fees - $xxx

Taxes - $xxx

DSC - $xxx

_____

Total due - $xxxx

 

Good idea!

[Arzeena]

popcorn is on!! :d:d;)!!

 

:d:d

[notentirelynormal]

I hope they take the next step and roll it into the price of the cruise.

Fare - $xxxx

Port fees - $xxx

Taxes - $xxx

DSC - $xxx

_____

Total due - $xxxx

 

It has probably been explained a hundred times on CC why you don't want this. So pay $10 for tips or add it to your cruise fare and pay $50 due to taxes, etc.

[swedish weave]

A recent news article on CC reports that NCL has introduced a policy where anyone who wants to remove their gratuities must do so by contacting the cruise line AFTER the cruise is over. The article has a very active readers comments section. http://www.cruisecritic.com/news/news.cfm?ID=6529

 

I am not an NCL fan, but for this I think they have done the right thing. All cruise lines should take this approach. Then the cheapskates will have to make that extra effort to stiff the crew.

 

Why call them cheapskates ? If they tip in cash, at least they know where their money is going, and NCL is purposely vague about how the DSC is distributed.

 

The people you are calling cheapskates may give much more in cash than the DSC

 

BTW -- Name calling is not acceptable on CC per Laura.

Edited September 16, 2015 by swedish weave

[BlueRiband]

Why call them cheapskates ? If they tip in cash, at least they know where their money is going, and NCL is purposely vague about how the DSC is distributed.

 

The people you are calling cheapskates may give much more in cash than the DSC

 

BTW -- Name calling is not acceptable on CC per Laura.

 

The problem with removing the DSC and tipping in cash is that the money goes only to those who directly served those particular passengers. Nothing for the buffet staff, the deck or pool staff, housekeeping supply staff, etc.

 

Those with legitimate service complaints that don't get resolved on board can apply for a DSC rebate. (Although I'd have to get very poor service from multiple crew members to do so.)

 

The vast majority who remove all service charges however do so 1) just because they can and 2) think NCL already has enough of their money. Why else would anybody repeatedly sail with the same cruise line if the service was so bad? One voyage that was so bad that I'd felt justified in removing gratuities would have me looking elsewhere.

[CPT Trips]

It has probably been explained a hundred times on CC why you don't want this. So pay $10 for tips or add it to your cruise fare and pay $50 due to taxes, etc.

 

A guess I missed all those reasons. Please share the reason just one more time.

[BlueRiband]

Here's one long explanation that comes from the board's long time industry insider:

 

...

 

This entire concept of tipping in lieu of regular wages started on the White Star Line in Britain over 100 years ago. Although it has gone through many permutations, the original concept is still basically there; great service staff will receive plenty tips and be happy to stay on the job; poor service staff will not receive very much in the way of tips and be quite happy to leave.

 

But now it is much more complicated than it was a century ago.

 

Most of the tipped crew are not from Britain, but from all over the planet. Each one of the sometimes hundreds of nationalities represented in a ships crew has a different set of tax laws that apply to his or her earnings. In most of those countries, gratuities are not taxed, but earnings are. If passenger fares are increased to cover the gratuities, the total earnings of the service staff will all be taxable - in effect further reducing their salaries.

 

Currently most cruise lines pay tipped employees around US$1 per day plus tips. The staff's official salary is very low, meaning they have little or no tax liability in their home countries. If we change to a salaried system, many countries would not only require the crew to pay income taxes on all those earnings, but would also require the cruise lines to pay local payroll taxes on those total earnings. The cruise lines would be forced to increase your cruise fares much higher to cover the substantial financial losses by the crew and the cruise line companies.

 

Each one of the sometimes hundreds of nationalities represented in a ships crew is a member of a national maritime union - often from their home country. Each union has negotiated a contract with the cruise line, specifying benefits and earnings (including tips).

 

If the cruise lines change the system of paying their service staff, all the labor contracts with all the unions would have to be renegotiated, which could take decades.

 

My employer just finished a 3 year negotiation with a single labor union that represents about 15% of my crew. The issue was changing the day of the month they got paid. That was the only issue - nothing else.This took three years to negotiate. Can you imagine how long it would take - and how much it would cost - to change the entire earnings system for crew members represented by 20 different maritime unions in 20 different countries?

 

And if the tipping concept is removed, we are haunted by an age-old argument from our passengers. If the incentive of tipping is removed, and everyone has a guaranteed salary instead, where is the incentive to do a great job?..

 

I still agree with you that some sort of change is desperately needed. But nobody seems to be able to come up with a change that will make the situation better - unless you and I are able to convince your fellow cruisers to pay a 100% surcharge on their cruise fare.

[swedish weave]

The problem with removing the DSC and tipping in cash is that the money goes only to those who directly served those particular passengers. Nothing for the buffet staff, the deck or pool staff, housekeeping supply staff, etc.

 

Those with legitimate service complaints that don't get resolved on board can apply for a DSC rebate. (Although I'd have to get very poor service from multiple crew members to do so.)

 

The vast majority who remove all service charges however do so 1) just because they can and 2) think NCL already has enough of their money. Why else would anybody repeatedly sail with the same cruise line if the service was so bad? One voyage that was so bad that I'd felt justified in removing gratuities would have me looking elsewhere.

 

You present some valid points, and I believe the DSC removal would not be such a hot topic if NCL would be open about how the DSC is handled and distributed, but they choose to be very vague about how they handle it.

 

They offer the DSC (free gratuities) as a booking bonus. That causes me some concern.

 

They do not offer a breakdown of how the money is distributed like most of the other lines do.

 

They tie the DSC removal to bad service, and that is not always the reason many remove it.

 

Giving cash to the crew offers at least some assurance that the people who deserve tips are getting them, and they can "tip out" to those who are behind the scenes.

 

The idea that they have to turn in cash tips if you remove the DSC is not enforceable and is another move by the cruise line to discourage DSC removal. If I choose to remove the DSC and tip in cash, I can easily put money into an envelope and have a friend (who has not removed the DSC) give it to the crew member I want to tip. It would not be possible for anyone to prove that the money came from me.

[swedish weave]

A guess I missed all those reasons. Please share the reason just one more time.

 

In short form, the two biggest reasons are taxes and commissions.

[sail7seas]

What you are doing is a complete waste of time. On virtually all cruise lines, if autotips are removed, any cash tips given to the crew MUST be turned over to the supervisor to be pooled and shared as appropriate to the people who support the crew you deal with. By giving them the money in cash, you do two very critical things:

 

1) The removal of tips implies you are dissatisfied with the service levels you are getting. Anyone who is assigned as your service staff will be looked at as providing inferior service, which can affect their promotion opportunities.

 

2) You have now added to the service staff's work load. They now have to report those cash tips, a step they would not have to do if the autotips were kept in place. You have one more unnecessary thing the must deal with.

 

If you leave autotips in place, and give ADDITIONAL tips, then in most cases, the staff can keep it as a "bonus".

 

All of this has been well documented in many threads over the years, and has been substantiated by several cruise ship employees who often post on CC.

 

Another important point: based on what people have reported over the years, when they insist on cash only, they typically end up giving less than the amounts they would have paid with autotips. For a seven day cruise at about $12 per person, the cash tips should total at least $168 per couple. Very few people report giving anything close to that. So, the bottom line is that in many cases the crew is given less than they would have, and the 'giver' keeps the rest for himself. Not quite fair, in my opinion.

 

So leave the autotips in place. Then give more in cash if you want to give them a bonus. And deal with service issues when the occur, and not at the end of the cruise by removing tips.

 

 

 

^^ This.

 

[declansdad]

Just add it to the price of the cruise. It's not really a tip, it's a service charge.

[iheartbda]

Why call them cheapskates ? If they tip in cash, at least they know where their money is going, and NCL is purposely vague about how the DSC is distributed.

 

The people you are calling cheapskates may give much more in cash than the DSC

 

BTW -- Name calling is not acceptable on CC per Laura.

Name calling is against CC guidelines when someone is directly called a cheapskate, etc. as in, "hey John Doe, you're a cheapskate".

[njhorseman]

In short form, the two biggest reasons are taxes and commissions.

 

Neither are valid reasons.

 

Corporations are taxed on profits. If they take in $10 in service charges and pay out $10 in wages from the service charges no profit results and no taxes are due. Nor are payroll taxes an issue. Virtually all cruise ships fly a flag of convenience, employ almost no US citizens or residents in the "tipped" crew positions, and operate in international waters, so payroll taxes are not due to the federal and state governments.

 

The cruise lines can simply include the service charge in the non-commissionable fare (NCF) and pay no commission on it.

Edited September 16, 2015 by njhorseman

[GUT2407]

I hope they take the next step and roll it into the price of the cruise.

Fare - $xxxx

Port fees - $xxx

Taxes - $xxx

DSC - $xxx

_____

Total due - $xxxx

 

Don't worry someone will be along soon telling you how that will be the end if the world and fares will skyrocket, despite the fact that it works fine in some parts of the world.

[GUT2407]

I have never stiffed a crew and tip at least as much overall as the included gratuities, but we have always had them removed from the bill and done it by cash for several reasons.

 

1. If I am tipping someone, I want to put cash in their hand, not assume someone somewhere is going to do it.

2. We almost always adjust the tip for some, better service gets better tips. Worse service gets smaller tips. Just like every place else on the planet.

3. I am not going to tip the maitre'd unless he or she provides some extra service. First, they are management and second, I usually don't see them at all or rarely.

 

I do agree that if they are going to force you to include them, that it should be rolled into the price.

 

I bet someone says that the only reason anyone removes tips is to stiff staff.

 

It always happens.

[GUT2407]

Popcorn is ON!! :D:D;)!!

 

Yep tipping threads are always fun.

 

I often wonder why I comment on them.

[CPT Trips]

In short form, the two biggest reasons are taxes and commissions.

 

Looks like njhorseman already wrote what I was about to write. So I won't.

[Husky61]

I bet someone says that the only reason anyone removes tips is to stiff staff.

 

It always happens.

 

Ever notice how many of them always make sure they state they never remove the tips and often leave more?:eek: