No church on Sunday

[ontheweb]

13 hours ago, kochleffel said:

 

To my mind, the least-served Christians on HAL might be those from other denominations with sacramental liturgies, such as Episcopalian or Orthodox, that a lay officiant can't fully perform, especially if their own churches aren't in communion with Roman Catholicism. And I think that people of any religion would feel the lack of professional clergy more with long itineraries.

DW is Episcopalian and feels comfortable at a Catholic Church when no Episcopal Church is available. 

[whogo]

How many cruisers attend the protestant services on average?

[Homosassa]

To put this whole thread in perspective, and despite the posts on this thread, I am sure if a survey was taken of passengers on any given cruise, one would find the majority (if not close to almost 100 %) of the passengers do not care in the least if there is a religious service on board ship.

 

And if they were told that someone was raising a ruckus because their particular denomination did happen to have a service on board, but its meeting time did not fit into the passenger's narrow concept  of the proper day and time , their eyes would glaze and their expression would reflect disbelieve that someone would thing that the ship's scheduled revolved around their very personal beliefs.

 

And if they heard that the passenger was threatening to take their money and cruise elsewhere, it would be met with a shrug.

 

Now, as a serious issue, I find that the ship's docking procedures do not always follow my personal belief that the ship should rotate around its axis twice and only tie up facing south by southeast. The ship should only be docked on days of the week with a "u" in its name and only within two days of the full moon.  Only by using this procedure is the earth's magnetic field not thrown off by the metal in the ship's hull . 😉

[dot73]

"One of our major points was not only who but when . The assigned time was on a Saturday not a Sunday . Sunday is when we worship communally and this as well as how as been changed . It hurt HAL at all to at least acknowledge the proper day for us - not the Sabbath."

 

Do you think that God will be upset with you if you attend mass on a Saturday instead of a Sunday a few times during the year?  There are people who, for various reasons, cannot go to mass on Sunday and instead go to church during the week.  Does that make them any less Catholic than those who attend on Sunday?  I don't think HAL is obligated to provide priests/pastors/rabbis or imams for every cruise.  If attending a mass on Sundays means so much to you, why not do land vacations in mostly Catholic countries where finding a church will not be difficult.  Do other cruise lines provide Catholic services on Sundays on every cruise?

[scubacruiserx2]

We don't attend mass except at friends funerals or if asked by Catholic friends or family . Here's a small video clip of the beginning of an Interdenominational service held on a Sunday by the Cruise Director of the Caribbean Princess . Please don't look at this if it may offend you .

 

 

 

[scubacruiserx2]

On a slightly topic but with similarities . We attended 2 meet and greets on the Zuiderdam this month and we thank HAL for giving us the place to meet , time and refreshments . We do prefer the Celebrity or Princess way of doing it . They send a ship's officer with a microphone to lead and or sometimes answer questions . As a result they are usually much better organized and attended . 

[slidergirl]

14 hours ago, scubacruiserx2 said:

One of our major points was not only who but when . The assigned time was on a Saturday not a Sunday . Sunday is when we worship communally and this as well as how as been changed . It hurt HAL at all to at least acknowledge the proper day for us - not the Sabbath .

I'm sorry, but the Lord will not condemn anyone to the fiery pits of Hell if you worship on a day other than Sunday.  It is the fact that you WORSHIP, not WHEN.   When someone is so institutionally conditioned to only worship on Sunday at their particular denomination is when religion goes wrong, IMHO.   If you require any cruise line to indulge your "need" to have a Christian officiant available for a onboard service that is performed only on a Sunday, you had better find another way of vacationing. And, you need to be sure that the location you choose has a church of your particular denomination.    Suppose the line says "ok, you may have a service Sunday at 7pm and we have one of our crew who received their minister license online for you" - someone will whine that it' during dinner time and someone will whine that the crew isn't a graduate of a proper seminary.   They change it to 11am - someone will whine because it interferes with going onshore on their excursion.  They find an LDS bishop who is willing to do service - someone will whine that the LDS Church is not a Christian church and the bishop is just someone the Church appoints as bishop because they have been faithful and contribute more than their 10% of earnings to the Church....   it goes on and on.

 

Set aside your own time for your own worship.  Bring the Bible of your choice (remember not everyone uses the KJV or the NIV). Come up with a subject that you would like to be thoughtful on.  Even sing a hymn if you want.  

 

And, remember, Jews do not need a rabbi to conduct a service and they seem to do just fine convening their own services onboard.  

[slidergirl]

31 minutes ago, scubacruiserx2 said:

We don't attend mass except at friends funerals or if asked by Catholic friends or family . Here's a small video clip of the beginning of an Interdenominational service held on a Sunday by the Cruise Director of the Caribbean Princess . Please don't look at this if it may offend you .

 

 

 

What was potentially offensive?  People met to do an ecumenical prayer service...

[bEwAbG]

Is this a put-on?  I cannot believe someone is so regimented that not having a service on a Sunday would be a serious problem worthy of a formal complaint.  There isn't even a common understanding of when the "sabbath" is within Protestant circles, let alone all of the other religions.  If someone ever calls you narrow-minded and you don't know what they mean, come back to this thread. 

 

If you need a religious fix, research ahead and find a church you can attend when the ship is docked.

[*Miss G*]

From the 2019 Know Before You Go:

 

 

[HAL4NOW]

Thank you, Miss G!

[Stratheden]

Just attend the Catholic Mass if you really need to attend a Christian Service.   You don't have to take communion  - you are still worshipping the same God.  🙄

[Petronillus]

22 hours ago, AncientWanderer said:

Hal4Now's story at post 45 was so sad about the priest passing away onboard.  

Yes, I can understand the sadness. But I can also imagine that if the priest had been able to orchestrate his own passing, he might have placed it on a cruise ship!

[scubacruiserx2]

6 hours ago, *Miss G* said:

From the 2019 Know Before You Go:

 

 

 

6 hours ago, *Miss G* said:

From the 2019 Know Before You Go:

 

 

 

Thank you  , this is why  I'm protesting . This isn't to fair everyone , just the catholics .

 

Catholics have mass everyday with a priest .

 

Interdenominational on Sunday ( not Saturday )  no professional leader .

 

Jewish on the Sabbath no professional leader .

[Shmoo here]

11 minutes ago, scubacruiserx2 said:

 

 

Thank you  , this is why  I'm protesting . This isn't to fair everyone , just the catholics .

 

Catholics have mass everyday with a priest .

 

Interdenominational on Sunday ( not Saturday )  no professional leader .

 

Jewish on the Sabbath no professional leader .

While I haven't cruised as long as others here, It's my understanding that the Catholic services on HAL were actually put in place for the crew (as many of them were Catholic).  Then some passengers found out that there were Catholic services onboard and asked if they could attend them also.  And that's how it started.  HAL wasn't really accommodating passengers when they started having Catholic services onboard, it just wound up that way.

 

All cruise lines that I have been on have only offered a space, available for interdenominational and/or Jewish services, while allowing passengers to run their own services.  

 

If attending a "real" service is that important to you, you may need to rethink cruising, or plan your cruises so that you are in a port on a Sunday and can attend in a "real" church.  

 

 

[ontheweb]

5 hours ago, Shmoo here said:

While I haven't cruised as long as others here, It's my understanding that the Catholic services on HAL were actually put in place for the crew (as many of them were Catholic).  Then some passengers found out that there were Catholic services onboard and asked if they could attend them also.  And that's how it started.  HAL wasn't really accommodating passengers when they started having Catholic services onboard, it just wound up that way.

 

All cruise lines that I have been on have only offered a space, available for interdenominational and/or Jewish services, while allowing passengers to run their own services.  

 

If attending a "real" service is that important to you, you may need to rethink cruising, or plan your cruises so that you are in a port on a Sunday and can attend in a "real" church.  

 

 

We were in a port, Montreal, on a Sunday post cruise. DW saw an Episcopal Church near our hotel, and intended to attend a service. But swimming at the YMCA won out. And usually Church is important to here. But swimming is more important. LOL

[SargassoPirate]

On 6/23/2019 at 1:26 PM, AtlantaCruiser72 said:

If one cannot worship without the aid of a priest, minister, rabbi, imam, etc and requires an organized religious service on a proscribed day/time then perhaps cruising is not for them. HAL is a for profit business, not a religious institution. Be thankful for what they offer, be flexible in when and how you worship, and if it does not suit your personal preferences then handle your own spiritual needs in private. 

 

 

"And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by others. Truly I tell you, they have received their reward in full. But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you."  Matthew 6:5-6

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Jammu2]

Also, too, you dont need a preacher.

 

Matthew 18:20 English Standard Version (ESV)

²⁰ For where two or three are gathered in my name, there am I among them.”

[grsnovi]

People... (shakes head sadly)

[josumello]

Have been on many cruise lines but not HAL. We do have one coming up in a year. We r church goers. Go to mass every Sunday so when on a cruise if mass is offered on Sunday we will usually go. In reality the numbers of people attending are pretty low so this obviously is not an important priority to most people on the ship. When there are thousands of passengers and about 40 show up I can certainly understand why the cruise companies are phasing these services out. They just aren’t important to a lot of people. The new order.......

[bcummin]

Holland America Line is in business to make passengers happy.

HAL has a history of providing a place for interdenominational Sunday services led by a guest minister or passengers.  This has really been appreciated by many.

Recent changes are disappointing.  Sunday services on Saturdays is especially surprising.

Hopefully HAL is listening.

Barbara

[buckirj1]

Trying to bring more light than heat: Many cruisers want Sunday corporate worship. HAL's literature says they will provide it. Sometimes they do, sometimes they don't. That's the real issue.

[bEwAbG]

18 minutes ago, buckirj1 said:

Trying to bring more light than heat: Many cruisers want Sunday corporate worship. HAL's literature says they will provide it. Sometimes they do, sometimes they don't. That's the real issue.

 

Well, yes and no.  They say they have a service on Sunday, and then ask for volunteers to lead it.  What if the volunteer requests that it be moved to Saturday?  There are 101 reasons why this could be happening on any individual sailing.

 

The OP has really shown that it's more about anti-Catholic sentiment than a true concern about spirituality in subsequent comments.  I think you'd be hard-pressed to find any semblance of a majority who would insist that you can only have a church service on Sunday.

[AV8rix]

13 hours ago, scubacruiserx2 said:

 

 

Thank you  , this is why  I'm protesting . This isn't to fair everyone , just the catholics .

 

Catholics have mass everyday with a priest .

 

Interdenominational on Sunday ( not Saturday )  no professional leader .

 

Jewish on the Sabbath no professional leader .

 

1 hour ago, bEwAbG said:

The OP has really shown that it's more about anti-Catholic sentiment than a true concern about spirituality in subsequent comments.

 

bEwAbG, I tend to agree with you about the (perceived) motive of the OP.  In order to fortify his/her opinion, he/she finds it necessary to comment on things about which he/she knows NOTHING.

 

Well, I’m Jewish and I’m going to disabuse the OP of his/her uneducated opinion on the devotional aspects of our faith:

 

First of all, most folks can’t imagine how many things we require to properly conduct our Shabbat (Friday evening) observances.  We need kippahs (head coverings), siddurs (prayer books), candles, kosher wine (not just any wine) and challah (special type of bread).  Wow!  That’s a tall order, huh?  Well, HAL provides us with all of those things in a dedicated space EVERY Friday evening on EVERY cruise.  And as kochleffel (love your handle 🤩 ) has already mentioned, we do not need a rabbi for the Shabbat observance.  The same ritual is performed every Friday evening in the homes of observant Jews and, except in the homes of the rabbis themselves, the services are always conducted by lay people.

 

Twice I’ve been aboard for the high holy days (Rosh Hashanah and Yom Kippur) and, because they’re SO important to us, HAL has provided us with ordained rabbis on those occasions.  I’ve joined those rabbis for meals and chatted with them and, yes, they are at least partially comped.

  

So, OP, feel free to continue your diatribe.  But please leave us out of it.  Thanks in advance.

 

Aside to kochleffel:  You should see the startled reactions of folks passing in the hallways when the rabbis blow the shofars.😀

 

 

Edited June 25, 2019 by Av8rix

[HAL4NOW]

Thank you Av8rix for the informative and balanced response you shared.

As a protestant minister I also found HAL to be accommodating to the needs of the passengers in their pursuit of seeking God corporately.

On Easter Sunday this year the Zaandam docked in Bonaire and the interdenominational service had been scheduled for 10AM when many of the passengers would be on excursions in port. At my request Guest Services made a room available and HAL staff set the room up for a 6AM sunrise service. 

On Maundy Thursday HAL accommodated the request of another guest clergy member to hold a Maundy Thursday Communion Service. HAL supplied the room, the bread, and the fruit of the vine for this service.

One thing that HAL used to do that they no longer do is to have a protestant minister onboard through the Guest Staff program. With that program most cruises had both a Catholic Priest and a Protestant minister; both were given a room but had to pay for any extras and travel.

HAL hasn't shared a reason with me as to why they have chosen to curtail that program, but it does make some sense. Followers of Jesus that are willing to love one another can still get together as often as they choose on any Holland America Cruise. HAL will accommodate groups that make requests for rooms, and many other reasonable requests will also be granted by HAL.

Edited June 25, 2019 by HAL4NOW