Toddler Death Law Suit Update

[compman9]

I can't believe this is still being debated

 

A man lifted a child up to or out of a window and dropped her

 

End

[in rod we trust]

5 hours ago, Brisbane41 said:

Take note of the name of the person you just quoted. This person already is on a mission against Royal Caribbean because the company supports building a cruise terminal in Botany Bay which is south of Sydney. They have some sort of vested interest or present as some sort of environmentalist opposed to development and as such they are on a mission against Royal Caribbean.

doesn't matter which ship it is ..  all companies have a responsibility to there workers guest etc..  be it a factory or a cruise ship etc .. I manage a company and I know we have  a responsibility to our worker's and even the public that go thru our workplace.. even if they are idiots..   we have to take measure's against idiots ..  my opinion of this matter is the grandfather or whoever his relation to is a idiot doing it in the first place. at the same time that window should of been closed to avoid what has happen or any idiots that carry on when drunk 

[grapau27]

5 hours ago, Germancruiser said:

Whatever sceanario is the right one- only the grandpa know for sure- if he does not suffer from some kind of shell shock.

Maybe he would have liked to show the little one what the view was- maybe he did no see that the window was open. Maybe she just slipped through his fingers. The fact remains- nothing of that would have been the fault of the cruise line!

One moment of not paying attention- and a whole life can change. Happens all the time!

 

He caused the death but lying to blame RC to save himself and get a payout off RC for the family.

[momofmab]

13 hours ago, Two Wheels Only said:

 

"Royal Caribbean is willing to spend over 1 BILLION DOLLARS just to build another ship but isn't willing to grant this poor family 1% of that amount knowing how much this family has suffered..." - Winkleman's opening remarks, trust me. 

 

With that logic, the cruise industry would be paying out millions to EVERY person who jumps/is pushed/drunkenly falls/dangled by a family member.

 

No matter how emotional a case is, the jury still has to adhere to the law.  The judge would likely provide specific instructions to the jury as well as a list of conditions that must be met in order to find in favor of the plaintiffs.  This isn't a case where the girl just fell off on her own, and the jury needs to decide whether Royal was negligent and should have known that there was a danger of a person falling in that area of the ship.  There was direct involvement from the GF, and the jury will have to decide whether his actions contributed to her death (which the videos show that he did), and whether or not Royal is in any way negligent and contributory to the GF's actions (whether Royal could have anticipated that an adult would dangle their child out a window and whether they should have taken steps to keep that from happening). 

[OHCruisin]

9 hours ago, mitsugirly said:

 

 

According to the family, the little girl had run over to a wall of windows on the side of the cruise ship, as Anello followed closely behind. Chloe was used to banging on the glass partition while watching her older brother's hockey games, and Anello could tell she wanted to get a closer look at what was outside. So her grandfather lifted her up and placed her on the windowsill. The only problem was, the window pane he thought was directly in front of her had been removed, and seconds later, she slipped from his grip to the pier below.

 

What boggles my mind is "placed her on the windowsill".  The only way he could do that is if the window was OPEN.  I don't believe those windows  have sills, just the tracks the panes are in...the "sill" is the railing.

 

Edited January 30, 2020 by OHCruisin

[grapau27]

1 hour ago, momofmab said:

 

With that logic, the cruise industry would be paying out millions to EVERY person who jumps/is pushed/drunkenly falls/dangled by a family member.

 

No matter how emotional a case is, the jury still has to adhere to the law.  The judge would likely provide specific instructions to the jury as well as a list of conditions that must be met in order to find in favor of the plaintiffs.  This isn't a case where the girl just fell off on her own, and the jury needs to decide whether Royal was negligent and should have known that there was a danger of a person falling in that area of the ship.  There was direct involvement from the GF, and the jury will have to decide whether his actions contributed to her death (which the videos show that he did), and whether or not Royal is in any way negligent and contributory to the GF's actions (whether Royal could have anticipated that an adult would dangle their child out a window and whether they should have taken steps to keep that from happening). 

It is getting to the point where people will need a psychiatrist letter to say they are fit to sail.

It is unbelievable that this idiot does what he did and there is a chance he gets off with it and the family get a payout from RC.

[xpcdoojk]

1 hour ago, chengkp75 said:

 

So, no window, anywhere, should be able to be opened, since stupid people can do stupid things anywhere. And balconies should be totally enclosed.  And there should be railings around the pools so no one who runs around can fall into the pool.  Royal, should they be found not negligent (as I feel they should), would not be "worming" their way out of it, they would be found to be legally compliant with all laws, and I don't see how a completely legal situation could be "worming" out of anything.

 

I think this sea lawyer wants the ship completely enclosed with a glass dome.  There should be a company employee then following every single passenger all of the time to make sure they don’t do anything to hurt themselves or anyone else.  It would be a perfect Utopia, that no one could afford or want to participate in.

 

jc

[RocketMan275]

13 hours ago, BND said:

I've been called for jury duty several times and actually had to go in twice.  I wasn't selected either time.  I'm educated, well dressed and work for a US Gov agency that apparently defense attorney's do not like lol.  I know others in the same situation.  In our county in NoVA they'd be hard pressed to find enough people who don't have at least a Bachelor's degree to serve on juries every year.   My husband has been called a couple of times and selected a couple of times.  Once he was the foreman.  He's a professional (engineer) and retired US Navy Captain so that idea of anyone with higher than a HS education isn't selected isn't correct.  I know several people who have been selected in our county and they all had college degrees and professional jobs.  There's a difference between what the lawyers want and what they get since they can't dismiss everyone.  Now, a criminal case in PR will be a bit different.   My husband's family is from PR and I can only imagine what the jury room would be like.  

It varies by region and area.  I know a lot of attorneys.  Generally speaking, in this area, they prefer a somewhat less than well educated jury.

[coffeebean]

2 hours ago, in rod we trust said:

if the window wasn't open none of this would of happen , and that's all there is to it ..  and Im sure royal Caribbean will try to worm there way out of it , just like they are with the white island volcano  deaths..  

Why have windows then? Open windows provide cross ventilation and a clear view of vistas. Windows are made to be closed and windows are made to be open.

 

Looks to me like most of the bank of windows was closed. Why did GR go to the open window? Must have been because the vista was clear with no salt debris to obscure the beautiful view. GF must have wanted the lovely breeze that was wafting through the open window.

[chengkp75]

12 minutes ago, xpcdoojk said:

 

I think this sea lawyer wants the ship completely enclosed with a glass dome.  There should be a company employee then following every single passenger all of the time to make sure they don’t do anything to hurt themselves or anyone else.  It would be a perfect Utopia, that no one could afford or want to participate in.

 

jc

Knives with "caution sharp" warnings, bicycles must have training wheels and bumpers around them, stoves that don't get hot, stairways with warnings about tripping and falling, where does it end?

[SRF]

15 hours ago, BND said:

Plenty of kids have fallen out of windows in homes and apartments while leaning against a screen.  

 

I have seen instances where mesh was put up to cover the opening above the railing in an apartment.  The kids will climb to the ceiling playing Spiderman.

 

With railing, they tend to climb up, look over, and say to themselves, NOPE.   Most falls are due to playing on furniture near a railing which reduces the effective height.

[mayleeman]

1 hour ago, grapau27 said:

It is getting to the point where people will need a psychiatrist letter to say they are fit to sail.

 

That might not be a bad idea for lots of reasons....

 

2 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

And balconies should be totally enclosed. 

 

Edge-class ship already have finite balconies!

[boscobeans]

39 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

Knives with "caution sharp" warnings, bicycles must have training wheels and bumpers around them, stoves that don't get hot, stairways with warnings about tripping and falling, where does it end?

 

If Royal Caribbean is found at fault for any safety or ship design failures this will not only affect the cruise industry, but also ANY building that has a window, stairway, loft or anything else a child can be tossed out of and injured.

 

This litigious madness has to be stopped and until the courts finally turn around and PUNISH those involved in this kind of deceptive deep pocket blackmail these suits will continue to be common practice. 

 

Holding the lawyers responsible for all legal expenses incurred by Royal Caribbean as well as court costs would be a stiff warning to future spurious claims.

[Another_Critic]

2 minutes ago, mayleeman said:

Edge-class ship already have finite balconies!

 

Actually, they are infinite balconies.

 

 

[3eaglesfam]

3 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

 

So, no window, anywhere, should be able to be opened, since stupid people can do stupid things anywhere. And balconies should be totally enclosed.  And there should be railings around the pools so no one who runs around can fall into the pool.  

 

And this is why there are instructions on frozen pizza boxes to cook before eating... 

I am reminded of the movie Idiocracy... 

 

Quote

 

 

 

Edited January 30, 2020 by 3eaglesfam
Correction...

[phabric]

Last time I was on a ship, I went to see if you could tell if the window was open or closed.  I could tell that one window In front of me was open and the one beside the open window was closed.  I could tell the difference between an open and closed door.  I don’t understand how the GF could not see the difference, his attention was on picking up his GD.

[kearney]

2 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

Knives with "caution sharp" warnings, bicycles must have training wheels and bumpers around them, stoves that don't get hot, stairways with warnings about tripping and falling, where does it end?

Exactly. When was the last time people read the package insert of either an OTC drug or Rx... so filled with warnings that they are almost meaningless.

 

The cruise lines could put netting all around the ship to catch people who fall off... But guess what... there would be people deliberately testing out the netting to see if it worked... You can't fix stupid. I think one reason we need to warn people of the obvious is that we have dumbed down society to the point that common sense does not exist for some.  While it is terrribly tragic that this child fell off the ship... if the grandfather had set her on a railing and she fell backward and hit her head on the deck.. and died.. that would also be tragic... again.. it is obvious that a toddler should not be placed on a railing period... regardless of a window being open or not....  You just can't fix stupid with a sign..  think about it... what language should it be in... suppose the person can't read.... goes on and on.

 

And for those who think the window should be closed... it is open to provide air movement to keep this area cool. It can be like a hot house without windows... Virtually every cruise ship I have been on has similar window set up. 

[mayleeman]

1 hour ago, Another_Critic said:

 

Actually, they are infinite balconies.

 

 

 

Gee, it wasn't like an obvious play on words or anything. 

[grapau27]

31 minutes ago, mayleeman said:

 

Gee, it wasn't like an obvious play on words or anything. 

I agree,predictive text on my phone comes up with different words than I text.

What doesn't change is the idiotic action of the step GF.

[rusty nut]

The problem with all of the conjecture in this thread is that no one knows, with absolute certainty, what state of mind the GF was in at the time of the incident. Nobody knows their family dynamic. Maybe Anello couldn't stand Chloe's parents. Maybe Anello wanted to sail solo, without the kid, and the parents invited themselves. Maybe Anello was fed up with the parents for constantly shoving Chloe off into his care. Maybe he'd had enough. 

Why, when he followed Chloe across the deck did he stop at the pillar? Why did he crouch down? What was he thinking about at that moment when Chloe was out of his sight?

So many thoughts, so many possibilities. We just don't know.

Edited January 30, 2020 by rusty nut

[Another_Critic]

1 minute ago, rusty nut said:

Why, when he followed Chloe across the deck did he stop at the pillar? Why did he crouch down?

 

GF stopped at the pillar because Chloe stopped at the pillar.  I assume he crouched down to be at Chloe's level.

[fred30]

Either the family is in denial about it being the grandfather's fault or they are looking for a payout.

Most everyone else knows you don't put children up on railings or out open windows.

 

Most likely there has or will be some offer from RCL to shut this down.

[DaniDanielle]

Well said

[mayleeman]

The extreme reactions in this thread are ridiculous. One lawsuit will not change the industry. The world will not come to an end. It will likely be dismissed or settle at the end of discovery. The criminal case could well be disposed of before then.

 

And, if by some chance the parents win the suit, it is likely to be based on some factual thing not public at this point and that all the speculation here has never anticipated. If the jury goes nuts, any outrageous verdict unfounded in fact or law would be reviewed first by the judge and then on appeal. The safeguards are numerous.

 

Please chill, people, you won't have to start wearing safety ropes to go out on your balconies. Do people somehow think cruiselines have not been sued before and survived it?

[fred30]

RC did a great job protecting the girl on the ship.  She walk up to the side and was perfectly safe.  She was safe.

Then an adult decided to pick her up and hold her over the structure that was protecting her.

 

The only thing they could do better is have an IDIOT test before boarding.

Edited January 30, 2020 by fred30