Why do we continue to blame the cruise lines like Celebrity?

[jelayne]

We have friends who were scheduled to sail on another line (not X) and checked on the status of their cruise  around noon before leaving for a 6 hr drive to get to the debarkation city - all was a go.  I checked the status of  cruises on their cruise line website around 6-6:30 and saw that their cruise line had also suspended cruises.  I called them and they had not been notified.  They finally received notification from the cruise line the next morning, as they were checking out of the hotel to drive home.  

Point is communication misses happened on other cruise lines. 

[WonderMan3]

1 minute ago, jelayne said:

We have friends who were scheduled to sail on another line (not X) and checked on the status of their cruise  around noon before leaving for a 6 hr drive to get to the debarkation city - all was a go.  I checked the status of  cruises on their cruise line website around 6-6:30 and saw that their cruise line had also suspended cruises.  I called them and they had not been notified.  They finally received notification from the cruise line the next morning, as they were checking out of the hotel to drive home.  

Point is communication misses happened on other cruise lines. 

 

Yes, misses all around in the cruise industry. In the grand scheme of things I don't think Celebrity handled this any worse than other cruise lines. There were some specific actions and decisions they handled better and some they handled worse.

[dkjretired]

They did put it on the web site at the same time.

[Ganendal]

I don't really blame Celebrity, but I do blame the fact that most cruise lines are registered in nations that have lax regulations, and perhaps if they needed to be registered in countries that cruise ships depart from, they would have more stringent rules in effect about communication with the passengers, getting the accommodations paid for, and refunding fees in a timely manner...

Although it might not be US regulations they would, but they'd need to adopt business practices adhering to the most stringent rules for uniformity. Fine print gives them many loopholes, but many places insist that contracts are understandable and use direct language. That's the issue, communication, communication, communication. I love Celebrity, mostly think that they are straightforward but have had one issue where we paid for one accommodation, got another, found out just before departure and nobody was responsible for the numerous miscommunications.

Edited March 17, 2020 by Ganendal
Grammar

[markeb]

2 hours ago, Fouremco said:

One of the fundamentals of successful crisis management is the absolute need for clear, concise and timely communications. This is where Celebrity gets an absolute failing grade, as mass confusion has reigned from the outset. When booked passengers find out through social media that their cruise has been cancelled and never receive an official notification, or when a group of cruises is announced as cancelled one day but uncancelled a day or two later, there is bound to be criticism. And it's well deserved.

 

Celebrity has not managed this crisis well, in large part I would suggest because there was never any thought given to what would happen should there ever be a pandemic. In this lack of planning, though, Celebrity is certainly not unique, and the same criticism can be levied against most governments globally.

 

I've generally supported Celebrity over the past few weeks in recognition of the fact that they have been faced with unprecedented problems. That's not to say that I haven't been critical on certain issues, but I'm certainly not about to run and take my business elsewhere. Nevertheless, I can certainly understand why some people would choose to do so.

  

 

2 hours ago, LMaxwell said:

 

Managing by the numbers; zero leadership.  This is a website for people interested in cruising to discuss all aspects.  Including calling out lack of leadership. For the money we spend and safety we entrust to these companies it is good to have a balanced view of what their corporate execs really place priority on. 

 

Fortunately, we weren't scheduled to sail at all during this time; we'd postponed an April cruise back in November/December for other health related issues. So I'm probably being a little more academic.

 

What's the normal division in labor and responsibility between RCCL and X, RCI, and Azamara? Because so much of this seems to have come out of the  holding company. The closest thing to any leadership communication I've seen was the largely derided letter from LLP earlier this week, which frankly had passages that had NOT been written by a risk communicator and suggested real frustration. I did a quick peek on the RCI board and there look to be an awful lot of similar threads. We'll never know, unless someone leaves and writes the book, how this went down corporately, but I think the manager that needs to be blamed (for the mistakes within their control) is at RCCL.

 

An old military truism: Set a vision, give guidance, provide resources, and trust your subordinate commanders to execute.

[Fouremco]

6 minutes ago, markeb said:

An old military truism: Set a vision, give guidance, provide resources, and trust your subordinate commanders to execute.

I'm sure that management at RCCL would agree, and that they had full trust in their cruise line subordinate commanders, otherwise know as the CEO's. Whether they provided the necessary vision, guidance and resources is another question, and I for one have little knowledge of the degree of autonomy the CEO's have in carrying out their duties. All food for thought.

[Fouremco]

1 hour ago, dkjretired said:

 

That was done, especially  about two years ago, there was an excellent person who came on board and actually answered questions but it stopped after a few months and they went back to canned answers.   

Yes, that's what I thought. Thanks for confirming my somewhat vague recollection. 

[JuliaMS]

1 hour ago, dkjretired said:

They did put it on the web site at the same time.

Only available if you had the link. Not on their press release page and not on their Coronavirus page.

[hcat]

7 hours ago, TeeRick said:

Why are a few here still pointing fingers at the cruise lines?  

see full post by OP....

 

Rational, mature, unselfish  perspective in the face of an unprecedented situation worldwide. Thank you!

 

Some are not there yet!

[az_tchr]

4 hours ago, Georgia_Peaches said:

I think it's human nature to seek blame.  In my experience, crisis will bring out the best and the worst in people.  All of the cruise lines are in a scramble for survival at this point and I'm sure that we could collectively identify something that each one of them could have done better during this crisis.  I agree with @Argo. that Celebrity has a responsibility to reach out to people but maybe there is a hang up in the legal department, maybe they have to get approval for any and all communications and perhaps the hold up is not with Celebrity at all.  Could be the parent company.  The thing is, they are never allowed to get on an online platform and plead their side of the story.  They have to take the criticism without ever being afforded the opportunity to explain.  Nobody likes what is happening...nobody.  When we get back to normal, and we will, I will cruise again and if Celebrity is operational, I will cruise with them.  

Celebrity absolutely has an online platform. They have both their own website and they can issue releases that will be widely distributed.

The failing grade for Celebrity is their decision making seems to be in lockdown. They are making decisions too late with timing that has resulted in damage and angst to their loyal cruisers.  They seem afraid to make decisions that current events seem to dictate prompt action.

The world of cruising will survive. Sadly today there are few places that would consider allowing a cruise ship to dock.  Unless all the health community is wrong that situation will not go away in a few weeks.

Celebrity did not create this pandemic. They will be measured by their reaction to the problem.

[BridgeMates]

4 hours ago, Argo. said:

The problem from my perspective is the lack of clarity in Celebrity's explanations.

We just disembarked from Silhouette March 15th.

There have been two confirmed cases in Ontario Canada of an infected passenger on Summit and Silhouette in previous sailings. Celebrity has yet to inform us that we may have been put at risk.  We were notified by our provincial health agency that we may have been in contact with crew members or other passengers on our sailing.  Not a peep from Celebrity.

Since we were on a B2B2B sailing it would have been impossible for us to get a doctor's note on our well being since we were on the very ship that could have impacted our health.. do we get off the ship fly home get an appointment with a doctor on a Sunday to get a note and fly back prior to sailing on the same day.....

Oh, here is a future cruise credit for your cancelled cruises that you can't use because you are both over 70 and don't qualify for the exclusions..

The guys getting the big bucks in Miami must have been reading the same news that we were and did nothing to anticipate the crises..

Do I blame Celebrity for holding on to our money since they changed the rules about sailing ever again.. YES I do!!

 

We were on the Silhouette with you.  Could you post the notification from your health agency re contact with the virus.  We have seen nothing relating to the previous cruise.

Thanks Argo.

[Georgia_Peaches]

1 minute ago, az_tchr said:

Celebrity absolutely has an online platform. They have both their own website and they can issue releases that will be widely distributed.

Ok, let me try to be more clear.  There is the public comment and the real comment.  We get the public comment on whatever forum might be available.  CC, FB, or whatever.  Regardless of what's available or what has been used in the past to make a public comment, it will always be preapproved by someone and veiled behind that which is deemed to be non-litigious.  Therefore, they never really get to say what the might really want to say.  All that being said, the original point being made is that Celebrity is notoriously lousy at communication and I don't disagree.  Just offering up my supposition as to what might contribute to that.

[MamaFej]

I'm currently booked for numerous cruises on Celebrity, Princess, and Oceania. Our Oceania cruises aren't until 2021, so I don't expect to hear from them at this time.

 

I will say that the communication from Princess in my case has been exemplary. The communication from Celebrity has been... decidedly less than exemplary. Do I still plan to take my Celebrity cruises that haven't been canceled? Yes, I'm looking forward to them! 

 

However, at this point, Princess has impressed me quite a bit, Celebrity, not so much. Why the parent company didn't properly proofread and make clear the press release on the 13th is beyond me. 

 

I do think it is ridiculous that I was notified on March 13 that my March 21, April 4, and April 10 cruises were canceled when people on March 14 and 15 cruises had not been notified that theirs had. Indeed, I've read on CC that some didn't get such notification until two days after they were supposed to sail. Communicating with these folks should definitely have been a higher priority than communicating with those of us scheduled to sail much later.

 

No cruise line is responsible for the existence of a virus. Each cruise line is responsible for its reaction to the events that occur because of a virus, or anything else. Hopefully, people and businesses will learn from what they and others did both right and wrong in this unprecedented circumstance. 

[idh2019]

7 hours ago, TeeRick said:

 and I really do feel that they have acted responsibly.  The world changed rapidly.  Everybody and everything got caught up quickly with no time to plan everything perfectly.  Including me.

 

They should all have had plans in place not, as it appears,  make them up on the fly.

 

In the US company I work for (unrelated to travel industry), it is is known as a "Business Continuity Plan" and you test it annually. For a cruise line a suitable test would seem to be a virus spreads quickly (perhaps nothing quite as dramatic as this): so what should we do to keep the business going?

 

Sadly for Celebrity (and others?) that seems to mean "keep the money coming in and stop it going out".

 

They need leaders!

[Big_G]

We were scheduled on the Edge for this coming Thursday and as soon as we heard Princess had cancelled sailings last Thursday we started watching figuring other lines would soon follow suit. We picked out a replacement cruise in anticipation of them cancelling and decided to book it anyway.  On Friday just before they cancelled we booked it. This is another one of those extraordinary fast moving situations that no matter when they cancelled, someone was going to miss a notification or already be traveling. Sorry if anyone's plans were a little helter skelter but sometimes ship happens.

Edited March 17, 2020 by Big_G

[mchell810]

1 hour ago, MamaFej said:

I do think it is ridiculous that I was notified on March 13 that my March 21, April 4, and April 10 cruises were canceled when people on March 14 and 15 cruises had not been notified that theirs had. Indeed, I've read on CC that some didn't get such notification until two days after they were supposed to sail. Communicating with these folks should definitely have been a higher priority than communicating with those of us scheduled to sail much later.

 

No cruise line is responsible for the existence of a virus. Each cruise line is responsible for its reaction to the events that occur because of a virus, or anything else. Hopefully, people and businesses will learn from what they and others did both right and wrong in this unprecedented circumstance.

 

Well said!

[SweetFreedomLiving]

We had one night booked at the Disneyland hotel, along with dinner at Napa Rose, at the end of the month. Disney closed the parks and this was announced via press release. Still, we would expect to receive an email cancelling both. Instead, we had to call and stay on hold for a full hour before being able to cancel the hotel, and then transferred to the restaurant for another 15 minutes on hold to cancel that. We honestly felt bad for the employees. The company is doing their best to handle the chaos, and trying to do the right thing. We feel the same of Celebrity. They have a lot of moving parts that the consumer can't possibly understand. Patience is necessary and a virtue under such circumstances. We have a Viking Rhine River Cruise scheduled for May. Fingers crossed we can still go, since they haven't expanded their cancellation policy beyond April.

Edited March 18, 2020 by SweetFreedomLiving
Misspelled

[SweetFreedomLiving]

9 hours ago, Argo. said:

Oh, here is a future cruise credit for your cancelled cruises that you can't use because you are both over 70 and don't qualify for the exclusions..

I don't understand this. What does your age have to do with the cancellation policy?

[Bo1953]

59 minutes ago, SweetFreedomLiving said:

I don't understand this. What does your age have to do with the cancellation policy?

Can you say 'cash refund'? 

 

As passengers over the age of 70 are to be cleared by their MD's as being 'fit' to sail. Many may be deemed not fit, as I suspect this poster may not be. Receiving a FC will be useless for them. Although I do wonder if their travel insurance might cover them in this situation. 

 

I think that I would be upset too, if my cruising days were numbered in this manner. 

 

Instead of just taking the issue to X, it is brought here, which is fine in the short run, but I guess it helps with releasing anger and frustration and venting and getting some support. 

 

Which is fine, in the short run, as well.

 

BTW welcome to CC. 

 

Bon voyage 

Edited March 18, 2020 by Bo1953

[SweetFreedomLiving]

11 hours ago, Argo. said:

Oh, here is a future cruise credit for your cancelled cruises that you can't use because you are both 

Thanks @Bo1953. I was unaware of needing MD clearance over 70. That seems discriminatory, as many younger people are medically questionable. I'd be mad, too. It limits all of us in our retirement years as well, since we are working longer than ever before.

[Bo1953]

7 hours ago, SweetFreedomLiving said:

Thanks @Bo1953. I was unaware of needing MD clearance over 70. That seems discriminatory, as many younger people are medically questionable. I'd be mad, too. It limits all of us in our retirement years as well, since we are working longer than ever before.

s - a major issue for this, across all cruise lines, is that it is known that individuals over 70 with one (1) or more 'chronic' conditions are more likely (80%+) to not recover from this disease if caught.

 

As such, not only to limit liability and other associated challenges with having to care for such individuals aboard, the cruise lines have decided that a MD's note attesting to being 'fit' to travel is in the best interest for all.

 

While those of us who have any of the 'identified' chronic conditions and feel 'just great', a bout with COVID-19 may prove that your body is not in good enough condition to battle the disease.

 

This is not to say that passengers below the age of 70 will not become seriously ill and die with chronic health conditions, their ability to fight the disease appears to be better than the more 'mature' individuals who contract the disease.

 

I think it is a judgement call which is not arbitrary, but conditional. I do not know if ones MD will sign the form if they also believe that the passenger is truly 'Fit To Travel'.

 

Thank you again and bon voyage

Edited March 18, 2020 by Bo1953

[Bo1953]

15 hours ago, Ganendal said:

I don't really blame Celebrity, but I do blame the fact that most cruise lines are registered in nations that have lax regulations, and perhaps if they needed to be registered in countries that cruise ships depart from, they would have more stringent rules in effect about communication with the passengers, getting the accommodations paid for, and refunding fees in a timely manner...

Although it might not be US regulations they would, but they'd need to adopt business practices adhering to the most stringent rules for uniformity. Fine print gives them many loopholes, but many places insist that contracts are understandable and use direct language. That's the issue, communication, communication, communication. I love Celebrity, mostly think that they are straightforward but have had one issue where we paid for one accommodation, got another, found out just before departure and nobody was responsible for the numerous miscommunications.

... plus all of the additional fees and restrictions which go with this, resulting in higher fares and possible additional restrictions on who can sail or not.

 

Possibly those who are clamouring for lower or 'better' fares will migrate to lines who are foreign registered. How to compete fairly in that arena? Restrict our leisure cruise ports to only those vessels registered in the U.S.?

 

Thank you and bon voyage

[Pushka]

We are all just a bit sad, angry, worried and stressed as to what this damn virus means for every aspect of our lives in the immediate future. Everyone is a target. 

[Bo1953]

14 hours ago, idh2019 said:

 

They should all have had plans in place not, as it appears,  make them up on the fly.

 

In the US company I work for (unrelated to travel industry), it is is known as a "Business Continuity Plan" and you test it annually. For a cruise line a suitable test would seem to be a virus spreads quickly (perhaps nothing quite as dramatic as this): so what should we do to keep the business going?

 

Sadly for Celebrity (and others?) that seems to mean "keep the money coming in and stop it going out".

 

They need leaders!

Same goes for U.S. state and local Governments, hospitals, all level of education, airlines and you can name any critical entity which more than likely will have some sort of "Business Continuity Plan" in place.

 

They all fail, with the exception of your firm which tests its' plan annually and is successful at executing it in this current situation and pandemic. That is great, to be sure.

 

How about the leadership (or you) from your firm create a Consulting Group to go around to review, test and anticipate these types of situations and implement a fantastic workable plan for either specific businesses or types of businesses? This would be in great demand and they (you) can help implement these plans as their (your) firm is all set and will not need them (you) around that much to implement as everyone in the firm already knows what to do and how to execute it.

 

Thank you for your thoughts, regardless.

 

In health and bon voyage

[TeeRick]

Thanks everybody for responding to my original post on this thread.  All of your responses are definitely reasonable and justified at least in my opinion for what its worth.  Responses included everything in the spectrum from positivism, optimism, nostalgia, sadness, isolation, anger, frustration, negativity and pessimism.  Pretty much every day now in my local community I feel all of these same emotions one way or another.  Thanks Cruise Critic for allowing a forum for these online discussions.  They are not possible to have in person in our local community right now.