Zaandam and Rotterdam Situation (merged topics starting March 22, 2020)

[Tampa Girl]

5 minutes ago, capriccio said:

On the Coral Princess thread a current passenger just posted saying their captain announced that the Zaandam had permission to disembark!  The Coral is due in on April 4th and just reported passengers with ‘flu like’ symptoms yesterday and all passengers are now isolated in their cabins.

 

And somehow they know more than HAL does?  Wish it were true, but should be taken with a grain of salt.

[Linda VH]

We do NOT have enough tests. 

 

[greykitty]

How would Carnival guarantee receiving airports will accept these flights?  And will Carnival be arranging and paying for logistics on the other side?  Sure, they're saying asymptomatic passengers only, but I can imagine a few officials in the US not being pleased with charters from cruise ships arriving unheralded and unprepared for. 

 

ETA - and I do mean the parent corporation as the ultimate guarantor. 

Edited April 1, 2020 by greykitty

[3rdGenCunarder]

1 minute ago, SeaHunt said:

 

I'll be happy when they finally get HOME! But I still have one reservation with this scenario, and that's if any "positive" people mistakenly pop a Tylenol, etc. for symptoms before taking their temperature. Say a minor headache or such, not realizing that it's a fever reducer too.

 

I really wish they could perform actual tests somehow before releasing people. Is there any chance at all that will happen?

 

I guess I'm just really concerned after the Ruby Princess fiasco, where they disembarked in Sydney March 8 and 19 without testing and now 440 passengers are positive (10% of Australia's total cases are from Ruby Princess).

 

https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2020/mar/31/more-than-400-coronavirus-cases-australia-total-ruby-princess-cruise-ship

 

There aren't enough tests to test everyone. Tests still are being reserved for people with actual symptoms. And I'm not sure anyone knows how far into the no-symptoms-but-infected phase you have to be to show a positive test. Yes, some infected people will get through, but with the infection everywhere, would they make that much difference at this point?

 

[Tampa Girl]

2 minutes ago, greykitty said:

How would Carnival guarantee receiving airports will accept these flights?  And will Carnival be arranging and paying for logistics on the other side?  Sure, they're saying asymptomatic passengers only, but I can imagine a few officials in the US not being pleased with charters from cruise ships arriving unheralded and unprepared for.  

 

At least the passengers off our two ships have been quarantined for many days, which is more than what the TSA officials can expect from their land-based passengers.

[Copper10-8]

2 minutes ago, Petunia1950 said:

For Copper 10-8 -- two questions:

 

1.  Do you know why the two ships stopped for a bit this morning just west of Cuba, with an apparent tender between the two? 

 

2.  Why do they both now have their pedals to the metal -- moving at warp speed like they're being chased by pirates?  Is there only a brief window of opportunity for their arrival in Fort Lauderdale?

 

 

1. I do not. I could speculate but i won't 😉

 

2. They have been going "pedal to the metal" as Capt. Albert likes to say, for major portions of their journey since entering the canal. They're just trying to get as close as possible to FLL/PE to await approval, hopefully, to get in

[purrlinda]

7 minutes ago, Petunia1950 said:

For Copper 10-8 -- two questions:

 

1.  Do you know why the two ships stopped for a bit this morning just west of Cuba, with an apparent tender between the two? 

 

2.  Why do they both now have their pedals to the metal -- moving at warp speed like they're being chased by pirates?  Is there only a brief window of opportunity for their arrival in Fort Lauderdale?

"Warp speed like they're being chased by pirates" gave me a much needed hearty belly laugh this morning.

 

Also, great questions.  I was curious about that as well.

Edited April 1, 2020 by purrlinda
Spelling error

[Petunia1950]

2 minutes ago, Copper10-8 said:

 

 

1. I do not. I could speculate but i won't 😉

 

2. They have been going "pedal to the metal" as Capt. Albert likes to say, for major portions of their journey since entering the canal. They're just trying to get as close as possible to FLL/PE to await approval, hopefully, to get in

 

1.  Drat.

2.  Thanks -- I guess it was the sudden 0 to 60 after their brief stop this morning that made me think there was another reason ...

[npcl]

5 minutes ago, Linda VH said:

We do NOT have enough tests. 

 

Carnival is not a US company.  The ships are not in the US.  They are not limited to US FDA approved tests.  Even in the US you have Abbott shipping 50,000 quick response, processed using a toaster size machines that are fairly common in US doctor offices.  There are quick response antibody tests available.  If Carnival pushed for them they could probably get them, I suspect the state and federal government would even make them a priority if it showed that they were working to solve the problem instead of pushing the problem to shore.

 

One gets the feeling that they really don't want to because they can hide behind saying fluy like symptoms, instead of confirming the number of cases and actually having to say 200-300 confirmed cases.  The PR is much better to keep the number of confirmed low and use flu like symptoms for the rest.

[Nymich]

6 minutes ago, Tampa Girl said:

 

At least the passengers off our two ships have been quarantined for many days, which is more than what the TSA officials can expect from their land-based passengers.

Great point.  The ships have received all the negative publicity but the airlines spread it around far more.

[Vict0riann]

There are three cruise ships in Port Everglades today, so they are still being allowed in to reprovision and refuel.  It is understandable that the Port Authorities would be unhappy when a ship docks and then suddenly requests a medevac, it should be absolutely required that prior notice be given, but they do know in advance all about Zaandam and Rotterdam; they can be prepared.

Edited April 1, 2020 by Vict0riann

[Copper10-8]

4 minutes ago, greykitty said:

How would Carnival guarantee receiving airports will accept these flights?  And will Carnival be arranging and paying for logistics on the other side?  Sure, they're saying asymptomatic passengers only, but I can imagine a few officials in the US not being pleased with charters from cruise ships arriving unheralded and unprepared for. 

 

ETA - and I do mean the parent corporation as the ultimate guarantor. 

 

 

You are aware, aren't you, that the CDC and the Florida Dept of Health are both part of the Broward Unified Command?

 

They would have to approve and sign off on "the plan" In addition, the various entities in the receiving airports and cities will have been/are going to be notified of what's coming their way through that same Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, a U.S. federal agency

[npcl]

10 minutes ago, 3rdGenCunarder said:

 

There aren't enough tests to test everyone. Tests still are being reserved for people with actual symptoms. And I'm not sure anyone knows how far into the no-symptoms-but-infected phase you have to be to show a positive test. Yes, some infected people will get through, but with the infection everywhere, would they make that much difference at this point?

 

The test situations have improved with the abbott approval which produces 50,000 per day with quick analysis at a doctor office level.  The same machines that process the flu tests.  I would expect that if Carnival made a plea for priority on those or similar tests to the state and fed government they could probably get them, but they won't because they don't want the PR of 200-300 positive results.

[RJB]

2 hours ago, Cindy said:

This is all so heartbreaking. I simply cannot imagine what it would feel like to be a passenger on either ship right now — not knowing when my country would allow me to come home, not welcome anywhere, not knowing if I would stay healthy, or need life-saving medical treatment not available on the ship.

 

My husband and I love cruising. It’s been our vacation of choice for 20 years. I find myself seriously reconsidering my bookings and wondering whether or not I want to continue.

+1   A lot of us are thinking the same thing as you.  At the moment taking a cruise does not give us the same warm feeling as it did a few months ago. Have 2 booked but probably will cancel as we did our Alaska trip for June.  Everyone stay safe. 

[conwakr]

11 minutes ago, 3rdGenCunarder said:

 

There aren't enough tests to test everyone. Tests still are being reserved for people with actual symptoms. And I'm not sure anyone knows how far into the no-symptoms-but-infected phase you have to be to show a positive test. Yes, some infected people will get through, but with the infection everywhere, would they make that much difference at this point?

 

I agree with this. Even in the "homeland" there are no guarantees that the person in front of you at the gas station or the grocery store is virus-free. It all becomes postulating to talk about a "perfect" solutions that meets the desires of everyone. There just simply are not more guarantees and we are too far down the road in the country with virus spread.  Get these people to their home turf that do not need medical intervention seems to be the best possible outcome. 

[rjbean4]

 Desantis has just announced that he will be issuing a stay at home order for FL.

 

https://www.wfla.com/community/health/coronavirus/florida-coronavirus-update-gov-desantis-to-hold-briefing-on-pandemic-response/

Edited April 1, 2020 by rjbean4

[Boatdrill]

3 hours ago, Cindy said:

This is all so heartbreaking. I simply cannot imagine what it would feel like to be a passenger on either ship right now — not knowing when my country would allow me to come home, not welcome anywhere....

 

Imagine being a relative of one of the deceased, and still being onboard.  My heart goes out to them.  

Edited April 1, 2020 by Boatdrill

[greykitty]

10 minutes ago, Copper10-8 said:

 

 

You are aware, aren't you, that the CDC and the Florida Dept of Health are both part of the Broward Unified Command?

 

They would have to approve and sign off on "the plan" In addition, the various entities in the receiving airports and cities will have been/are going to be notified of what's coming their way through that same Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, a U.S. federal agency

Thank you - I did not see that reference earlier, so appreciate your help.  Just thinking that the hot spot major cities might be equally as concerned about these passengers arriving unexpectedly.  Certainly adds another element to the negotiations (I'm thinking airports in Chicago, NY, other trending areas as well).  

[Boatdrill]

2 hours ago, PelicanBill said:

 

 

From the very first moment we learned they were to transfer "healthy" passengers to the Rotterdam we knew it was destined to fail.  Without full testing, you cannot know who is infectious and not symptomatic.  It was inevitable that a few passengers would become symptomatic after transfer to Rotterdam.  Now we have two ships in the same situation. (Almost said in the same boat. )

As Orlando Ashord said, the idea was not to have a healthy ship and a sick ship. The main intent is to provide better isolation for all pax.  

[Eriksgarden]

Please put pressure on to let the Zaandam and Rotterdam dock here in Fort Lauderdale. We must show humanity and compassion for these people. Remember the St. Louis! #LetThemDock

[Steve Q]

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/carinval-cruise-ship-6000-passengers-at-sea-coronavirus/

[Copper10-8]

Just for info; one of the decision making bodies that has to approve allowing Zaandam and Rotterdam's entry into Port Everglades

 

Broward Unified Command Members:

• U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention
• Florida Department of Health in Broward County
• U.S. Coast Guard
• U.S. Customs & Border Protection
• Broward Sheriff’s Office Departments of Law Enforcement and Fire Rescue
• Broward County Emergency Management
• Port Everglades Pilots Association
• Broward County Port Everglades Department

[RJB]

6 minutes ago, rjbean4 said:

 Desantis has just announced that he will be issuing a stay at home order for FL.

Good for him. It is about time. Been at least a week in Palm Beach County.   Hope it helps.

[Nymich]

Just now, Copper10-8 said:

Just for info; one of the decision making bodies that has to approve allowing Zaandam and Rotterdam's entry into Port Everglades

 

Broward Unified Command Members:

• U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention
• Florida Department of Health in Broward County
• U.S. Coast Guard
• U.S. Customs & Border Protection
• Broward Sheriff’s Office Departments of Law Enforcement and Fire Rescue
• Broward County Emergency Management
• Port Everglades Pilots Association
• Broward County Port Everglades Department

Thanks good post.  Not as easy to do as it looks.   

[Himself]

3 minutes ago, Eriksgarden said:

Please put pressure on to let the Zaandam and Rotterdam dock here in Fort Lauderdale. We must show humanity and compassion for these people. Remember the St. Louis! #LetThemDock

I agree!