No Sail Order extended - 100 days

[Charles4515]

Ridiculous, my flight was canceled to the Galapagos, but the cruise is still on! My cruise tour begins June 12 on Celebrity Flora. And 48 crew members are sick onboard with the Corona virus.  That's half the crew!  Come on, cancel it already. It's a month out. Most irritating.

They plan to keep your money until the last possible moment.


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[VickyMcG]

5 minutes ago, Charles4515 said:

 

They plan to keep your money until the last possible moment.


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Yeah, think you're right.  In the meantime, I can't re-book. And it is stressful.  Like we don't have enough of that lately. pfft

[The_Big_M]

Due to an abundance of caution to their cashflow liquidity and ability to process refunds, they are unable to provide a cancellation notice at this time.

[VickyMcG]

13 minutes ago, The_Big_M said:

Due to an abundance of caution to their cashflow liquidity and ability to process refunds, they are unable to provide a cancellation notice at this time.

More exactly, they are trying to minimizes losses. They procured a large business loan. They don't have to make payments until next year. They made many other minor "adjustments" that add up, including cancelling some improvements, etc.  They are being very smart.  But, not so easy for us.  That's business.

[NinaBlue22]

On April 15th, they extended cancellations through June 11.  I predict Friday, they’ll announce the next round.

 

I wonder if they’ll keep up the sham and only cancel through July 11, or extend further out this time.

[TeeRick]

4 hours ago, NinaBlue22 said:

On April 15th, they extended cancellations through June 11.  I predict Friday, they’ll announce the next round.

 

I wonder if they’ll keep up the sham and only cancel through July 11, or extend further out this time.

I get why you think it is a sham as some here do. A lot of people have money tied up waiting for the next set of cancellations.  It is frustrating for sure.  But what date do you think they should extend to at this point?  Sept?  Dec?  2021 some time?  How does one decide?  And cancel all operations to that date or allow a few cruises to resume with the right conditions?  Should they continue to waffle (or be conservative in my view) and choose a date after the next set of CDC guidelines? This is more than a bit complicated.

[phoenix_dream]

On 4/18/2020 at 2:21 PM, kearney said:

They have been looking for a vaccine for the common cold for decades... with no success. Since the common cold is a form of the coronavirus... I really wonder about the possibility that a successful one can be developed quickly. 

But how hard have they been really trying to find a vaccine for the common cold?  Think about it.  Someone finds a vaccine, and immediately billions of dollars in sales of cold medicines are no longer needed, including that of the company who found the vaccine.  They could conceivably make some $$ in the short term, but once it went generic all their future sales of cold meds go by the wayside.  Call me a skeptic, but I think the 'trying' for a vaccine is a myth.  Working in the industry, perhaps you have some inside scoop on this and I am wrong?

Edited May 13, 2020 by phoenix_dream

[VickyMcG]

1 hour ago, TeeRick said:

I get why you think it is a sham as some here do. A lot of people have money tied up waiting for the next set of cancellations.  It is frustrating for sure.  But what date do you think they should extend to at this point?  Sept?  Dec?  2021 some time?  How does one decide?  And cancel all operations to that date or allow a few cruises to resume with the right conditions?  Should they continue to waffle (or be conservative in my view) and choose a date after the next set of CDC guidelines? This is more than a bit complicated.

I hear you. The no sail order is until mid June but there is a warning not to sail until after July 24th.  That seems reasonable.  June 12th or June at all?.. not in the least. You make the best calculation based on current medical/economic variables, hopefully heavily weighted on the medical/health end. Given that, I think through July is reasonable and the standing current offers the cruise lines are offering is appropriate and fair. This being a Wed in May, that is 😉

[markeb]

34 minutes ago, phoenix_dream said:

But how hard have they been really trying to find a vaccine for the common cold?  Think about it.  Someone finds a vaccine, and immediately billions of dollars in sales of cold medicines are no longer needed, including that of the company who found the vaccine.  They could conceivably make some $$ in the short term, but once it went generic all their future sales of cold meds go by the wayside.  Call me a skeptic, but I think the 'trying' for a vaccine is a myth.  Working in the industry, perhaps you have some inside scoop on this and I am wrong?

 

The "common cold" is actually a complex of viruses, including some coronaviruses. Too many really to make a common vaccine, and for the most part it's treated successfully with symptomatic treatments, creating little or no incentive (and lot of technical hurdles) to making any sort of vaccine.You might need 10 or more vaccines to totally different viruses; that's historically 10-15 years and about $1B from discovery to market, each. You'll find a lot of basic science research on vaccines, but they really go nowhere in development, because there's really no financial incentive.

 

Vaccine research for coronaviruses in animals is probably a better model of what concerns most of us. Many of those, and early indications suggest SARS-Cov-2 as well, cause at least part of their disease through immune mediated processes. I'm only aware of one approved vaccine, for cats, and it's not widely used or recommended. Vaccine candidates have to really be screened for the possibility of potentiating disease in some subsets of the population, or on exposure to a very similar but not quite the same version. And you may not see that on the pace we're on until you go to a large scale Phase III study (efficacy study), while the virus is still active.You really don't want to find more severe disease in your vaccinated group in a Phase III...

[TeeRick]

13 minutes ago, markeb said:

 

The "common cold" is actually a complex of viruses, including some coronaviruses. Too many really to make a common vaccine, and for the most part it's treated successfully with symptomatic treatments, creating little or no incentive (and lot of technical hurdles) to making any sort of vaccine.You might need 10 or more vaccines to totally different viruses; that's historically 10-15 years and about $1B from discovery to market, each. You'll find a lot of basic science research on vaccines, but they really go nowhere in development, because there's really no financial incentive.

 

Vaccine research for coronaviruses in animals is probably a better model of what concerns most of us. Many of those, and early indications suggest SARS-Cov-2 as well, cause at least part of their disease through immune mediated processes. I'm only aware of one approved vaccine, for cats, and it's not widely used or recommended. Vaccine candidates have to really be screened for the possibility of potentiating disease in some subsets of the population, or on exposure to a very similar but not quite the same version. And you may not see that on the pace we're on until you go to a large scale Phase III study (efficacy study), while the virus is still active.You really don't want to find more severe disease in your vaccinated group in a Phase III...

I worry about the fact that we have all been exposed to yearly rounds of circulating coronaviruses but still did not have the right immunity to the SARS-CoV-2 strain.  But maybe some of us actually did (the asymptomatic carriers?).  What does this say about vaccine approaches?

 

On another front, an Interesting study just published in Cell on research dating back to 2016.  Neutralizing antibodies In Llamas!

https://www.businessinsider.com/scientists-study-llama-antibodies-to-neutralize-coronavirus-2020-5

[bigbadandugly]

My daughter and her partner booked a Celebrity cruise departing San Juan April 24, including flights through the cruise line (thinking that provided additional protection). Well, now Celebrity is holding their flight refunds hostage.

 

We've been in contact with both airlines (Celebrity booked two different airlines for the two flights) and since both cancelled their flights, the two passengers were entitled to a refund. Both airlines have told us that their records show the money has been refunded prior to April 24. 

 

Multiple calls to Celebrity has led us to a runaround. They have confirmed that both airlines have refunded the tickets, but Celebrity is unable to refund the money due to its "processes". Because the tickets were purchased as nonrefundable tickets, Celebrity is claiming they have to process the refunds manually to avoid any penalties being deducted through the automated systems.

 

Frankly, I find this excuse complete bunk. Celebrity is clearly withholding their refund - and obviously the refunds of other cruisers - to shore up their liquidity crisis. I expected this behavior from the airlines, but am shocked that the airlines did the right thing and Celebrity has chosen to screw its customers. It's too bad Celebrity has chosen to screw over its customers, because we will certainly not be spending our vacation dollars with Celebrity any more.

Edited May 13, 2020 by bigbadandugly

[npcl]

1 hour ago, phoenix_dream said:

But how hard have they been really trying to find a vaccine for the common cold?  Think about it.  Someone finds a vaccine, and immediately billions of dollars in sales of cold medicines are no longer needed, including that of the company who found the vaccine.  They could conceivably make some $$ in the short term, but once it went generic all their future sales of cold meds go by the wayside.  Call me a skeptic, but I think the 'trying' for a vaccine is a myth.  Working in the industry, perhaps you have some inside scoop on this and I am wrong?

More a matter that what we call the common cold is actually a number of different viruses, anyone of which cause the symptoms.  These include viruses from both  Coronaviruses as well as Rhinoviruses. So it would not be one vaccine is would be several.  Considering also that the symptoms are relatively mild so not really worth the effort.

 

Considering the number of people that get the flu shot. How many would rush to their doctor to get a dozen or so different shots each year to protect themselves from the common cold for the next year.

[WrittenOnYourHeart]

Disney just extended their no-sail through July 27.

[drakes2]

55 minutes ago, bigbadandugly said:

Because the tickets were purchased as nonrefundable tickets, Celebrity is claiming they have to process the refunds manually to avoid any penalties being deducted through the automated systems.

 

That is actually true. If you dont want to incur penalties it must be processed manually and therefore the original reservation is queued and processed in batches according to sail date. I had a similar situation for a cruise that I cancelled and the refund took 5 weeks. 

[NinaBlue22]

On 5/13/2020 at 6:06 AM, TeeRick said:

I get why you think it is a sham as some here do. A lot of people have money tied up waiting for the next set of cancellations.  It is frustrating for sure.  But what date do you think they should extend to at this point?  Sept?  Dec?  2021 some time?  How does one decide?  And cancel all operations to that date or allow a few cruises to resume with the right conditions?  Should they continue to waffle (or be conservative in my view) and choose a date after the next set of CDC guidelines? This is more than a bit complicated.

I agree, it's very complicated.  I think the least they can do is extend the cancellations for 60 days, vs the 30 days they have been doing.  Our Mediterranean cruise out of Rome is scheduled for June 13.  Of course, that won't be happening, and it's very frustrating that I'm still waiting for Celebrity to officially cancel the cruise.

[PhillyTravelBug]

I have a June 20 Apex sailing and I am beginning to wonder when they are going to extend their no sail dates. I already received my airfare refund from American since they changed my flight from Philadelphia to Chicago instead of Barcelona. Lol.

[Prost Seattle]

A Chicago to Barcelona cruise would actually be interesting. 

[SraLiz]

We have a cruise booked for July 26- 6 night Equinox.  With all the chatter, we decided to move it to Aug. 9. ( I know, wishful thinking LOL, but I really need a vacation!) I called (and got right through BTW) and spoke with a lovely young man who informed me that to move my cruise would cost an additional $600 (same exact cruise, same cabin, same ship etc).  I said hmmmm why do much? He said it was because of the "no refund deposit" I booked with... now that is not an option. (IDK, that makes no sense to me.)   So we were chatting about my options and he said "ma'am, I recommend you just sit tight with the July 26 booking and take the 125% cruise credit we are going to offer you" Then he said "this is my personal opinion, not the opinion of Celebrity Cruise LIne LOL, you are not going to cruise in July and I don't think you are going to cruise in August.  Just hang on and as soon as we cancel July, you call me back and we will move your reservation" Soooo, bad as I hate to say it... I don't think I am cruising this summer.  Mom said "well, you better get us on the first boat leaving Florida when they start cruising, I don't care where we go!" Gotta love her!

Happy Friday y'all... make it a great weekend!

[yorky]

7 minutes ago, SraLiz said:

We have a cruise booked for July 26- 6 night Equinox.  With all the chatter, we decided to move it to Aug. 9. ( I know, wishful thinking LOL, but I really need a vacation!) I called (and got right through BTW) and spoke with a lovely young man who informed me that to move my cruise would cost an additional $600 (same exact cruise, same cabin, same ship etc).  I said hmmmm why do much? He said it was because of the "no refund deposit" I booked with... now that is not an option. (IDK, that makes no sense to me.)   So we were chatting about my options and he said "ma'am, I recommend you just sit tight with the July 26 booking and take the 125% cruise credit we are going to offer you" Then he said "this is my personal opinion, not the opinion of Celebrity Cruise LIne LOL, you are not going to cruise in July and I don't think you are going to cruise in August.  Just hang on and as soon as we cancel July, you call me back and we will move your reservation" Soooo, bad as I hate to say it... I don't think I am cruising this summer.  Mom said "well, you better get us on the first boat leaving Florida when they start cruising, I don't care where we go!" Gotta love her!

Happy Friday y'all... make it a great weekend!

I thought lift and shift was at no extra cost regardless of the nature of the deposit ?

[VickyMcG]

1 minute ago, yorky said:

I thought lift and shift was at no extra cost regardless of the nature of the deposit ?

I thought so too. but great to hear what the agent told you, SraLiz! We are still waiting about our June 12 cruisetour.

[SraLiz]

It was a strange conversation that's for sure! The first guy I spoke with said it would be $900 (there are 3 of in in a suite) and he was so frustrating I hung up and called back LOL.  The second guy was super nice and we went round and round and basically because THEY have not cancelled the cruise, I want to make the change... it would cost.  If I wait till they cancel I can call and move to the Aug date with no penalty.  So best to just sit tight and collect the reward! LOL

 

[NinaBlue22]

On 5/13/2020 at 8:24 AM, TeeRick said:

I worry about the fact that we have all been exposed to yearly rounds of circulating coronaviruses but still did not have the right immunity to the SARS-CoV-2 strain.  But maybe some of us actually did (the asymptomatic carriers?).  What does this say about vaccine approaches?

 

On another front, an Interesting study just published in Cell on research dating back to 2016.  Neutralizing antibodies In Llamas!

https://www.businessinsider.com/scientists-study-llama-antibodies-to-neutralize-coronavirus-2020-5

" Now, two studies reveal infected people harbor T cells that target the virus—and may help them recover. Both studies also found some people never infected with SARS-CoV-2 have these cellular defenses, most likely because they were previously infected with other coronaviruses."

 

https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2020/05/t-cells-found-covid-19-patients-bode-well-long-term-immunity

 

 

[Pushka]

5 hours ago, yorky said:

I thought lift and shift was at no extra cost regardless of the nature of the deposit ?

To the same cruise in 2021. 

[phoenix_dream]

On 5/13/2020 at 10:50 AM, npcl said:

More a matter that what we call the common cold is actually a number of different viruses, anyone of which cause the symptoms.  These include viruses from both  Coronaviruses as well as Rhinoviruses. So it would not be one vaccine is would be several.  Considering also that the symptoms are relatively mild so not really worth the effort.

 

Considering the number of people that get the flu shot. How many would rush to their doctor to get a dozen or so different shots each year to protect themselves from the common cold for the next year.

Yes, exactly - agree 100%.  Which is why I don't find the argument that there is still is no vaccine for the common cold any kind of any argument for why we might never have a Covid-19 virus.  Totally different scenarios.

[VickyMcG]

16 hours ago, phoenix_dream said:

Yes, exactly - agree 100%.  Which is why I don't find the argument that there is still is no vaccine for the common cold any kind of any argument for why we might never have a Covid-19 virus.  Totally different scenarios.

Except that there are about 160 strains and mutations of the "common" cold.  Hard to find one-size fits all.  I would imagine you would have to know which strain you had first, but then, you already are infected. But, I would agree, a cure would be worth pursuing.