Are vaccines the light at the end of the tunnel?

[wrk2cruise]

Assisted living where MIL is 100% of residents received and I think they said about 40% of staff.  They are getting second dose on Monday and then have an additional clinic 4 weeks later so they were hoping more staff would get first dose Monday and second dose in 4 weeks.   They were doing things to encourage the staff to vaccinate, raffle of an iPad.

[hcat]

1 hour ago, wrk2cruise said:

Assisted living where MIL is 100% of residents received and I think they said about 40% of staff.  They are getting second dose on Monday and then have an additional clinic 4 weeks later so they were hoping more staff would get first dose Monday and second dose in 4 weeks.   They were doing things to encourage the staff to vaccinate, raffle of an iPad.

Do you know why staff has to be encouraged with  a raffe?

Most reports are that the vaccines are safe..long term efficacy still a ?

[markeb]

2 minutes ago, hcat said:

Do you know why staff has to be encouraged with  a raffe?

Most reports are that the vaccines are safe..long term efficacy still a ?

 

Having had my mom and MIL in assisted living before they passed, I've got ideas. A lot of assisted living places employ pretty minimal medical staff, and a lot of their employees are almost general labor. They do food service, cleaning, and oh, we'll help you from your chair to a wheel chair. That's obviously not true everywhere, but it certainly was where my mom was. And I suspect they weren't paid that well. It was eye opening.

 

Skilled nursing facilities are different, and assisted living probably varies from state to state, etc., but needing to encourage staff to take a vaccine at assisted living doesn't surprise me. 

[markeb]

1 hour ago, nocl said:

I would normally agree concerning the EUA.  I don't know if that has ever been tested in court though.  I do not know of anything being mandated while under EUA except maybe one case in the military. 

 

However, look up the Labor Relations Board Ruling.  They did not distinguish between fully approved and approved under EUA in their ruling Only that a company had the responsibility to provide a safe work environment and could mandate.

 

When I was working DOD programs, the EUA process was looked at favorably because it was considered an "approval", and the legal opinions at the time seemed to support the ability to compel uniformed personnel to take an EUA product the same as an fully licensed or approved product. I don't remember it going to court. The major advantage was that EUA products were not (in DOD at least) considered "investigational", which was the big issue in ODSS. And if they're not investigational, you didn't have the data collection requirements, co-investigator requirements, etc. that you'd have with a product with no approval.

 

I suspect the Labor Relations Board ruling could and probably would be challenged. No idea how that would turn out.

[cangelmd]

9 hours ago, zanderblue said:

Very high rates of uptake being reported here in Scotland so far!

 

98% for care home residents

89% for care home workers

90% for over 80’s living in community

 

Now I know why I like visiting Scotland so much! Bunch of sensible people,

[TeeRick]

13 hours ago, mimbecky said:

I am hoping this has more to do with mRna being a new platform than vaccinations themselves.  Maybe this number will go up (and more people in general will be favorable) once more traditional platforms become available.  J&J is just around the corner and maybe AZ and Novavaxx.  Me? I'll take what they give me, and happily so.

I would be interested to know the percentage of Long Term Care residents and staff who get (or refuse) an annual influenza vaccine.  And the percentage that have been vaccinated for bacterial pneumonia.  Both have high mortality rates in these facilities.

[TeeRick]

13 hours ago, Host Jazzbeau said:

After almost losing DW in the crowd around the Ponte Vecchio (and thereby missing the ship's bus back to Livorno), we immediately upgraded our service to allow international calls when necessary.  Verizon doesn't charge anything for activating the option, and $10 a day only when you use it.  So for $20 we could have had peace of mind – priceless!

 

But I expect that the vaccine passport will be a document in your electronic wallet, right on the phone.  No need for service to bring it onto the screen.

Most people traveling do have smart phones these days.  A few do not.  They will have to weigh their options.

[TeeRick]

13 hours ago, LGW59 said:

My ex works in a LTC facility, back office, but it was mandatory at her place of employment.  They could refuse it, but...

So LGW welcome back to the vaccine thread.  I knew you could not stay away from your friends here.😀

[TeeRick]

10 hours ago, cangelmd said:

Now I know why I like visiting Scotland so much! Bunch of sensible people,

And excellent Single Malts!

[Charles4515]

28 minutes ago, TeeRick said:

Most people traveling do have smart phones these days.  A few do not.  They will have to weigh their options.

 

Some have cheap plans through third parties  that don't have international roaming. Like Consumer Cellular or from Walmart. Those cell services are really not good for international travelers. One way they could do the electronic document is have it as a QR code that is scanned by the verifying agency so the an internet connection is not required of the person who is being documented. The QR code could be a JPEG displayed on the phone and scanned or even printed out.

 

Edited February 5, 2021 by Charles4515

[D C]

19 hours ago, nocl said:

One of the major reasons with Long term care is the number of workers and even residents that are refusing the vaccination.  One statistic I saw indicated that only 1/3 of the workers are taking the vaccination and only 2/3 of residents.

Wow.  I'm surprised by that.   DW works in a (non-elderly) LTC facility.  Their take rate for patients and staff was over 90%.   She gets jab #2 today.  The boss purposely scheduled it for a Friday so the vast majority of staff can have reactions on their own time.  Nice. 

[K.T.B.]

I got into a... heated disagreement with someone yesterday about getting vaccinated.  They said they won't because they're allergic.  I pointed out there there will many varieties of vaccines coming out, not all with be mRNA vaccines like Pfizer or Moderna.  And I actually had a list to show them, but they cut me off by saying, "Well, I heard...."

 

I just shook my head and tuned them out then.  I seriously do not understand the reluctance.

[D C]

31 minutes ago, K.T.B. said:

I got into a... heated disagreement with someone yesterday about getting vaccinated.  They said they won't because they're allergic.  I pointed out there there will many varieties of vaccines coming out, not all with be mRNA vaccines like Pfizer or Moderna.  And I actually had a list to show them, but they cut me off by saying, "Well, I heard...."

 

I just shook my head and tuned them out then.  I seriously do not understand the reluctance.

I'm amused by the people who deny being anti-vax but are.

 

"I won't get the flu shot"

So you're anti-vax?

"No, I got all of my regular shots, but I won't get the flu shot"

You know it's effective, right"

"Yeah, but I won't get it"

You admit it works, yet won't get it?  So you're selectively anti-vax?

"No"

Then why won't you get it?

"I just....I've never had it and never had the flu"

So you won't get a vaccine just because you feel lucky?

"no...."

So you're anti-vax?

 

[JL87]

20 hours ago, markeb said:

 

When I was working DOD programs, the EUA process was looked at favorably because it was considered an "approval", and the legal opinions at the time seemed to support the ability to compel uniformed personnel to take an EUA product the same as an fully licensed or approved product. I don't remember it going to court. The major advantage was that EUA products were not (in DOD at least) considered "investigational", which was the big issue in ODSS. And if they're not investigational, you didn't have the data collection requirements, co-investigator requirements, etc. that you'd have with a product with no approval.

 

I suspect the Labor Relations Board ruling could and probably would be challenged. No idea how that would turn out.

At this point we're not mandating masks because of the EUA issue, but we're trying to provide little nuggets of benefits to being vaccinated. We've been very strict on sharing air, but we're going to allow those who've been vaccinated to go to the break room and enjoy some food. Appropriately distanced of course, but still a change. I think we have to start looking at ways to move people back towards normal. Baby steps I know but still something positive. I think this is very important moving forward. I'm in Georgia, USA. Our cases are dropping pretty dramatically. Deaths stable. Most 65+ in our county have been vaccinated. I hope it continues! 

[cruise kitty]

Team placebo no longer, just received first "real" tax within the pfizer study, DD, SIL & DH already unblinded....  they are working hard to have every placebo in the study vaccinated by March 1st.... possible rumblings of a booster shot trial that will be tacked onto our current study :)

[LGW59]

50 minutes ago, JL87 said:

At this point we're not mandating masks because of the EUA issue, but we're trying to provide little nuggets of benefits to being vaccinated. We've been very strict on sharing air, but we're going to allow those who've been vaccinated to go to the break room and enjoy some food. Appropriately distanced of course, but still a change. I think we have to start looking at ways to move people back towards normal. Baby steps I know but still something positive. I think this is very important moving forward. I'm in Georgia, USA. Our cases are dropping pretty dramatically. Deaths stable. Most 65+ in our county have been vaccinated. I hope it continues! 

Hope it continues indeed!!!  Hopefully we won't have a post Super Bowl surge.

[Ken the cruiser]

Here's a question given a few assumptions - (1) that everyone will be fully vaccinated before embarking on a cruise and (2) approved vaccines continue to show great results with keeping folks from getting severe symptoms requiring hospitalization.

 

My question - should the CDC requirement for a port to be able to accept severly infected COVID patients still be a requirement?

Edited February 5, 2021 by Ken the cruiser

[nocl]

1 hour ago, JL87 said:

At this point we're not mandating masks because of the EUA issue, but we're trying to provide little nuggets of benefits to being vaccinated. We've been very strict on sharing air, but we're going to allow those who've been vaccinated to go to the break room and enjoy some food. Appropriately distanced of course, but still a change. I think we have to start looking at ways to move people back towards normal. Baby steps I know but still something positive. I think this is very important moving forward. I'm in Georgia, USA. Our cases are dropping pretty dramatically. Deaths stable. Most 65+ in our county have been vaccinated. I hope it continues! 

Now what does a EUA have to do with a mask mandate?  They are totally unrelated.  The EUA is a mechanism where FDA can allow an drug, device or diagnostic onto the market for public use to resolve an unmet medical need.  Has nothing to do with a mask mandate.

[D C]

1 hour ago, Ken the cruiser said:

Here's a question given a few assumptions - (1) that everyone will be fully vaccinated before embarking on a cruise and (2) approved vaccines continue to show great results with keeping folks from getting severe symptoms requiring hospitalization.

 

My question - should the CDC requirement for a port to be able to accept severly infected COVID patients still be a requirement?

In my opinion, absolutely not.  

(Though a matter of semantics may suggest that severely infected and severely ill are different)

 

Every vaccine thus far has ~100% prevented hospitalizations and deaths.  Thus, it should no longer even be a consideration.

[JL87]

48 minutes ago, nocl said:

Now what does a EUA have to do with a mask mandate?  They are totally unrelated.  The EUA is a mechanism where FDA can allow an drug, device or diagnostic onto the market for public use to resolve an unmet medical need.  Has nothing to do with a mask mandate.

Should have said vaccine mandate. My bad. Can't edit it now. We definitely have a mask mandate!

Edited February 6, 2021 by JL87

[UnorigionalName]

7 minutes ago, D C said:

Every vaccine thus far has ~100% prevented hospitalizations and deaths.  Thus, it should no longer even be a consideration.

 

right,of the 13 people who were positive and in the trials...  Who knows how old/risk factors they were too.  all 5 of moderna <65.  Only 3 of pfizer > 55.

 

I would caution you about jumping the gun and drawing conclusions from the data that isn't necessarily there yet.

[nocl]

56 minutes ago, JL87 said:

Should have said vaccine mandate. My bad. Can't edit it now. We definitely have a mask mandate!

That makes sense, you had me very confused.😀

[ipeeinthepool]

On 2/4/2021 at 8:48 PM, hcat said:

Do you know why staff has to be encouraged with  a raffe?

Most reports are that the vaccines are safe..long term efficacy still a ?

 

It's an issue with the minority communities not trusting the government and the medical community.  At least in Michigan many of the staff working in the assisted living  or long term care facilities are from minority communities and the minority communities are not getting vaccinated at the same rate as the non-minority populations.  This is starting to be a problem in some states because they are hesitant to move to mass vaccination settings that might allow a higher percentage of non-minority  community to be vaccinated.  The result is an overall slow down in the vaccination rates because of the distrust of the government.

[Crazy planning mom]

52 minutes ago, ipeeinthepool said:

 

It's an issue with the minority communities not trusting the government and the medical community.  At least in Michigan many of the staff working in the assisted living  or long term care facilities are from minority communities and the minority communities are not getting vaccinated at the same rate as the non-minority populations.  This is starting to be a problem in some states because they are hesitant to move to mass vaccination settings that might allow a higher percentage of non-minority  community to be vaccinated.  The result is an overall slow down in the vaccination rates because of the distrust of the government.

In NY, they just opened a mass vaccination site at Yankee Stadium for Bronx Residents only.  The Bronx has been hard hit by covid and is less than 30 percent white.

[TeeRick]

19 hours ago, D C said:

I'm amused by the people who deny being anti-vax but are.

 

"I won't get the flu shot"

So you're anti-vax?

"No, I got all of my regular shots, but I won't get the flu shot"

You know it's effective, right"

"Yeah, but I won't get it"

You admit it works, yet won't get it?  So you're selectively anti-vax?

"No"

Then why won't you get it?

"I just....I've never had it and never had the flu"

So you won't get a vaccine just because you feel lucky?

"no...."

So you're anti-vax?

 

With so many reluctant people out there and some true anti-vaxers as well- How come I cannot find a way to get a vaccine appointment?  It should not be this hard.  And one for my wife too.  We will not likely be able to cruise until 2022 at this point even if cruises start up mid-2021 to some degree.

Edited February 6, 2021 by TeeRick