Good News / Good Progress towards back to Cruising....

[C-Dragons]

I wish this thread would go back to the topic of getting back to cruising.

[LGW59]

2 minutes ago, C-Dragons said:

I wish this thread would go back to the topic of getting back to cruising.

Well getting back to cruising involves the CDC, agree with their guidelines or not (I do) others don't, they have a right to express their views/opinions.

[Oceangoer2]

59 minutes ago, ipeeinthepool said:

 

They seem to forget that the attention span of many on CC is about 2 paragraphs.

I'm ok with meaningful paragraphs...but when proving a point takes a page, it's redundant in most cases.  And yes, sometimes my eyes gloss over with all the fact finding.

[markeb]

2 minutes ago, C-Dragons said:

I wish this thread would go back to the topic of getting back to cruising.

 

I wish when they redo the forum software the next time, the thread title would float as you scroll, so I don't have to remember what thread I'm in and lay off replying in some of them. Unfortunately, almost everything is morphing to a common theme these days (and this one started on that theme anyway).

 

 

[nocl]

6 hours ago, TeeRick said:

Steve in general I believe that lockdowns in the USA have not worked very well.  And they have been far from "oppressive".  They have been lockdowns in name only- with plenty of exceptions. Some states did not even have anything close to a lockdown.  Perhaps they worked to some extent a year ago when everybody was in a panic and much more willing to comply.  But they were still pretty weak and unenforceable. Comparing states is truly apples and oranges.  The virus hit at different times and different peaks in different parts of the US.  It came back in states (and countries) later on.  Humans just cannot be completely locked down or even partially locked down very long.   But-------- we do not actually need oppressive lockdowns.  We do need continued masking, social distancing and hygienic procedures.  For now until the vaccines do their magic.  Kind of simple.  

Bingo - basically the lockdowns, except for theaters, churches and in door dining, are basically unenforced.  Most enforcement is done by stores, even in non-lock down areas.  In reality you have that lock down or no lock down

 

A percentage of the population will avoid indoor activities with others, a percentage will not

a percentage will wear masks when social distancing cannot be maintained, a percentage will not

a percentage will avoid having parties and gatherings at home a percentage will not.

 

If one looks at the "locked down" vs "non-locked down" states the percentage is not as different as one might think. It mostly comes down to individuals and their view, though have the mandates do tend to encourage those on the fringe to follow the recommendations a bit more.

 

The funny thing is also that the economies in the non-locked down states have been impacted about the same as those that have locked down, so totally lifting the state restrictions is not a panacea for the economic impacts because a large percentage of the population will still distance.

[hcat]

3 hours ago, Oceangoer2 said:

Some of these posts are becoming dissertations...qualified or not....and just a word war. .. which seem to be long explanations of someone's opinion.   I would skip the whole comment but there just might be something in it that will help the average person's insight into what might help us get through this.  There must be a simpler way to get the point across....bullet points or more concise wording?

Agree.

Posts could be  more to the point and relevant to the topic at hand;   rather than long winded and  meandering off topic.I am guilty sometimes!

Thanks for the reminder

[hcat]

1 hour ago, C-Dragons said:

I wish this thread would go back to the topic of getting back to cruising.

Agree

[ChucktownSteve]

3 minutes ago, nocl said:

Bingo - basically the lockdowns, except for theaters, churches and in door dining, are basically unenforced.  Most enforcement is done by stores, even in non-lock down areas.  In reality you have that lock down or no lock down

 

A percentage of the population will avoid indoor activities with others, a percentage will not

a percentage will wear masks when social distancing cannot be maintained, a percentage will not

a percentage will avoid having parties and gatherings at home a percentage will not.

 

If one looks at the "locked down" vs "non-locked down" states the percentage is not as different as one might think. It mostly comes down to individuals and their view, though have the mandates do tend to encourage those on the fringe to follow the recommendations a bit more.

 

The funny thing is also that the economies in the non-locked down states have been impacted about the same as those that have locked down, so totally lifting the state restrictions is not a panacea for the economic impacts because a large percentage of the population will still distance.

 

There's a lot of truth in your comments.  We're in the riskiest age bracket and I have several underlying medical factors.  We voluntarily chose to restrict our exposure to some others.  We didn't need a mandate. Some states treat their residents as having intelligence to do the right thing.  Other states believe they must force their residents to adhere to their dictate. 

 

Young people aren't at such high risk so even if they contract Covid, they'll survive.

 

I like to believe in Darwinism.   That is unless politicians force the infected people onto the UN-infected ones.

 

 

[NavyCruiser]

On Wed, March 10, Texas will be open 100%.  Florida is mostly if not 100% open by now.

Doesn't matter whether you agree with the Governor's decision or not, so let's not rehash it here.

Means that this is one small step towards re-opening the cruise ports out of Florida & Galveston, hopefully soon.

For those who agree, supports it, & CHOOSES to cruise in the near future, go for it.

For those who don't agree, stay home.

[Ride-The-Waves]

1 hour ago, C-Dragons said:

I wish this thread would go back to the topic of getting back to cruising.

The heath and safety of "cruisers" and the ships' staffs are integral to returning to cruising.  

[LGW59]

3 minutes ago, NavyCruiser said:

On Wed, March 10, Texas will be open 100%.  Florida is mostly if not 100% open by now.

Doesn't matter whether you agree with the Governor's decision or not, so let's not rehash it here.

Means that this is one small step towards re-opening the cruise ports out of Florida & Galveston, hopefully soon.

For those who agree, supports it, & CHOOSES to cruise in the near future, go for it.

For those who don't agree, stay home.

Florida and Texas can support it all they want, and good on them for doing so if they choose.  CDC has final say though.

[LGW59]

7 hours ago, HMR74 said:

in the 67 page "joint" report from the CDC and the cruise lines last month, the CDC acknowledged that the "requests" it made would be too stringent to allow the cruise lines to run a business (my summary take on what they said).  Bureaucracy.

 

on the entire issue like this  including lockdowns,   there is no apparent adult discussion on the risk vs reward aspects of a real world. eg, close down businesses for 15 months and many lives are affected,  and its been documented that drug use is up, alcoholic use is up, suicides and other mental health issues are up. People are depressed and have time on their hands. And there are a lot of people in that category that we here might rarely have contact with.

 

Many people chose  or were forced to not get elective surgery and that has consequences. People have avoided going to dentists and that has consequences. Children in school are paying a lasting cost of development price.

The Govt and Federal Reserve have printed trillions of dollars  to try to get things going  again. We have yet to see the bankruptcies of many businesses including office and mall space. A lot of blowback coming there.

 

My hammer and nail comment last night applies to a lot of issues--Organizations like CDC look at this narrowly.

 

Our costs, not just financial, but physical and mental will endure for years and those costs will not be tabulated.

Although already the CDC has admitted that just 6% of the deaths were solely attributed to Covid while the other 94% dying with covid "involved", their word,  also had an average of 3.8 comorbodities.

If you analyze it, its the elderly that have comorbidities and they have or had real serious life threatening issues which adversely affect life expectancy exponentially the more of those comorbidities are present. There are a number of "young folks" who have co morbidities, and know it, , know it but deny it, or do not know they are an accident waiting to happen. And they too are at risk of a virus which stresses human systems more than most viruses.

 

That's it in a nutshell, but I think, and this is my opinion so don't go jumping off, is we should have had a more focused action plan on this.  But early on there was public infighting and a lot of that was politics and bureaucracy and media hype.

 

summary/analogy:

A great quarterback sees the entire field  as he steps up to the line and it "computes" in his mind immediately, and runs the play, with a risk reward quotient,  like a great orchestra conductor.

 

We are relying on the CDC WHO and NIH, and they do not have a great QB or Conductor. A lot of good technicians/players, but it was not brought together in the best way.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Our costs, not just financial, but physical and mental will endure for years and those costs will not be tabulated.  Perhaps if we keep in mind what the WWII greatest generation endured, we may just come ok if we do what we need to, just as they did.  We will all get back on our luxurious cruises soon enough.

[hcat]

Some posts need to be scrapped.

This is not a political forum. Let's check ourselves.

 

We all want to learn more so we can hope to cruise again!

[Ride-The-Waves]

We do need to return to discussing what is needed to return to cruising.  One of the biggest problems is the cruise lines are not doing themselves any favors.  They have obfuscated schedules, refused refunds, offered sometimes unusable FCC, not coordinated concerns with ports/countries, and hidden price/cost increases.  Plus they have not complied with CDC requests for protocols to keep passengers and crew safe from infection while at sea.  

 

 

[HMR74]

5 minutes ago, Ride-The-Waves said:

We do need to return to discussing what is needed to return to cruising.  One of the biggest problems is the cruise lines are not doing themselves any favors.  They have obfuscated schedules, refused refunds, offered sometimes unusable FCC, not coordinated concerns with ports/countries, and hidden price/cost increases.  Plus they have not complied with CDC requests for protocols to keep passengers and crew safe from infection while at sea.  

 

 

The tangents of the discussion are related to our government issue and whether it is asking , if not demanding too much of the cruise companies.

 

to understand it you have to dig deeper with data and reports, and last months CDC and cruise line report said clearly that the CDC is asking for protocols that the cruise lines will not be able to do and be viable.

 

If the CDC does not back off, then cruise  lines will leave us ports which RCL is doing in Cozumel. Or just close down. 
 

how about the cruise lines saying what they are prepared to do and the customers decide.pay up with money or walk.

 

ps, its not ez to do this from a phone.

 

 

[C-Dragons]

5 hours ago, LGW59 said:

Well getting back to cruising involves the CDC, agree with their guidelines or not (I do) others don't, they have a right to express their views/opinions.

As do I.

[LGW59]

6 minutes ago, C-Dragons said:

As do I.

I think then you would be included in the they.  I said I agree and others have a right to express their opinions. Do you need a special only you category?

Edited March 10, 2021 by LGW59

[C-Dragons]

3 hours ago, hcat said:

Some posts need to be scrapped.

This is not a political forum. Let's check ourselves.

 

We all want to learn more so we can hope to cruise again!

Agreed. 🌺🌼🌺

[Arizona Wildcat]

7 minutes ago, C-Dragons said:

As do I.

Getting back to cruising involves lots more than the CDC.  We need international travel to.open so crews can get to ships.  We need countries outside the US, Canada and Europe to feel comfortable with cruise ships visiting with thousands of passengers.  We need to vaccine production to continue to ramp up so ALL countries can vaccinate.

Gonna take time.  Arizona governor removed all state guidelines last week.  Local governments and businesses still mostly require masks but everything is opening.  We will know shortly how it goes. 1.5M out of 7M total population with at least 1 shot.

Hoping for cruises this summer 

[Oceangoer2]

10 hours ago, Arizona Wildcat said:

We need to vaccine production to continue to ramp up so ALL countries can vaccinate.

Amen.

[TeeRick]

This thread started off with a good topic: Progress toward cruising again.  It got bogged down in CDC discussions.  Understandable frustration for those cruising from the US.  But not anything new to add.  But progress!  The measured and known progress (eg., vaccines, therapies, testing, ship and crew positioning and readiness, opening of society, etc.) is happening more rapidly now.  In fact amazing in one year given the unknown virus at the time.   The decision criteria and timing of the US gate-keeper (CDC) is what is unknown.  Hopefully they will clarify very soon. 

[wrk2cruise]

15 hours ago, HMR74 said:

and last months CDC and cruise line report

 

You have mentioned this is a couple of posts.   Can you post a link?  I've not seen it and would like to read.

[basil1]

21 hours ago, TeeRick said:

SARS-CoV-2 does not have to go away completely for resumption of normal activities and cruising.  That is not the immediate goal.  And if it is a long term goal it will not be achieved for many many years.  It just needs to be managed through vaccines and our normal medical infrastructure.  In fact most viruses are in this category and are effectively managed.  Every year.  Only a small number (like polio and smallpox) have been managed to extinction and it took decades.

True but I was replying to a comment that the virus had to go away completely...it's not going to. That was my point.

[TeeRick]

2 minutes ago, basil1 said:

True but I was replying to a comment that the virus had to go away completely...it's not going to. That was my point.

Yes I was just agreeing with you.  Sorry.

[basil1]

1 minute ago, TeeRick said:

Yes I was just agreeing with you.  Sorry.

Gotcha 🙂