CDC guidelines coming soon?

[rjrpar]

13 hours ago, fairweather said:

If you want to visit any place other than a private island, it's going to be hard not to have proof of a vaccine to get off. You can't get a visa already in a lot of countries around the world without proof of vaccination for a variety of diseases. Covid isn't going to be any different.

 

The CDC is working off rapidly changing medical data. New variants are developing fast and the vaccines still have not been proven to protect against them. It would be professionally irresponsible to give into the frustrations of commercial enterprises and tourists. Remember, the US has been the most infectious nation with more cases and deaths per capita.

 

This is a global crisis not an American problem. We all sail when it's safe and protocols have been tested and established from these first early cruises. It will take twice as long to get this right if the CDC is rushed into opening the floodgates without knowing it's OK to do so.

 

No matter how fast the CDC allows cruises to leave from American home ports, get ready to wear masks, socially distance and abide by the rules of the countries you visit. This thing won't go away until every poor country has vaccinated the majority of their citizens and the world reaches herd immunity.

 

We are moving a lot faster than any scientist ever thought was possible when this thing first took off. Count your blessings and go ahead and book a future cruise. It might be postponed to a later date but there isn't a penalty for having to cancel either. We are getting closer every day.

 

Patience is a virtue. Be thankful that you aren't one of the Long Haulers who may never be able to travel again.

Your second paragraph is wrong.  The US does not have the highest death rate, not even close.

[paulh84]

7 minutes ago, firefly333 said:

I'm sure you are aware that study showing flights low risk was with wearing N95 masks. ..which everyone wears right? Dont believe everything you see so readily. 

 

I'm the one picking at my mask which makes me itch. And it's not a N95. 

No. The airflow in an aircraft flows from top to bottom with roughly half being fresh and half flowing through HEPA filters. Air does not flow freely front to back. Seat backs are also shown to provide a significant barrier. You’re not ‘sharing’ air with many passengers at all. Is it low to no risk? Certainly not. Confirmed COVID cases contracted on an airplane is extremely low.

[Shorewalk Holmes]

3 hours ago, not-enough-cruising said:

Very rarely are “academics” able to properly function in a real life environment. 

 

3 hours ago, not-enough-cruising said:

Real world medicine and critical thinking are lost on these people. They all excelled in undergraduate and medical school, then fail abjectly in the clinical setting. 

 

So the scientists who developed the vaccines lacked critical thinking, and didn't understand medicine?

 

Academic scientists saved our butts.  We should be thankful instead of dismissive.

[HBE4]

15 hours ago, Goodtime Cruizin said:

19 hours ago, Pratique said:

That's all I'm saying, we're not out of the woods yet.

 

I am. 

 

It's the bottom of the 9th, tie game, bases loaded, no outs and our best hitter is at the plate. There is a half-a-dozen ways to score the winning run & you can just smell the victory. Now all that is need for the batter to hit the ball.....and not into the rarely seen triple play. 

 

That's where we are at.  It's only a matter of time for the winning run to be pushed across the plate. Don't pop the champagne corks just yet.  I'll wait until a good majority are fully vaccinated.

 

Edited April 3, 2021 by HBE4

[dswallow]

1 minute ago, HBE4 said:

 

It's the bottom of the 9th, tie game, bases loaded, no outs and our best hitter is at the plate. There is a half-a-dozen ways to score the winning run & you can just smell the victory. Now all that is for the batter to hit the ball.....and not into the rarely seen triple play. 

 

That's where we are at.  It's only a matter of time for the winning run to be pushed across the plate. Don't pop the champagne corks just yet.  I'll wait until a good majority are fully vaccinated.

 

 

If you were dealing with wanting to combine vaccinated and unvaccinated in large groups, certainly there's a whole lot to be said for treading carefully. But the cruise lines currently are trying to sail entirely with vaccinated people. This is the end-goal of the vaccination program. There is almost no good reason not to permit this, watch it, and study it, especially. You can barely get a better controlled group setting than a very isolated cruise ship.

[not-enough-cruising]

1 hour ago, Shorewalk Holmes said:

 

 

So the scientists who developed the vaccines lacked critical thinking, and didn't understand medicine?

 

Academic scientists saved our butts.  We should be thankful instead of dismissive.

You misinterpreted my statements. 
 

My statement was a rebuttal to someone stating the because the CDC director was on staff at Harvard that made her eminently qualified. The proof is in the pudding, there is a complete disconnect between those making the policies, and those in the “real world” that realize the implementation is all wrong. 
 

Yes, you are correct, scientists developed the vaccines, that is what they were trained to do. This has nothing to do with what I posted, however it does promote my point. Research in a laboratory is what some people do. Real life application is what other people do. Very rarely do the two groups cross over into one another’s path. 
 

Edited April 3, 2021 by not-enough-cruising

[BecciBoo]

4 hours ago, ace2542 said:

They lie about the noro outbreaks on ships. Most people don't report having noro on a ship they just take immoduim plus. And the ships don't have the ability to test every passenger for that illness.

 

One case of Covid or Flu on a ship is too many remember that.

If what you say is true, then all ships have one case at least. I do not believe they lie.  Too much to lose for the lines, and fines etc.  They take a Noro outbreak very seriously.

[BecciBoo]

45 minutes ago, boscobeans said:

Q: Why do the cabins on passenger jets get hot when flights are delayed on the ground after leaving the gate? Does the air conditioning system rely on power or airflow levels only available in flight?

– John, West Lafayette, Indiana

A: When the engines are at idle, they do not produce much compressed air used for cooling. This can result in a warm cabin. The issue is the amount of air available for cooling when not in flight, where the flow is robust. Some airplanes can supplement the cooling air with the APU, which can help. 

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I personally have been on many flights were we have had fairly long delays and the cabins at time got really stuffy and close...

 

I'd rather be on a ship than sitting for an hour or longer in a plane with a hundred plus others who may or may not be vaccinated, especially some twin prop job.

 

Does  anyone really know EXACTLY where they got Noro or Covid .?? Anyone other than Dr Fauxi. 

Giggle, I have to laugh as I think Fauxi doesn't even know his own mind!

[Shorewalk Holmes]

16 minutes ago, not-enough-cruising said:

You completely misinterpreted my statements. 

 

Well, here's what you said in the first post:

 

 

"Very rarely are “academics” able to properly function in a real life environment. 
 

There is a saying in the professional medical community (perhaps others as well) 

 

“Those that can, do. Those that can’t, teach”"

 

 

Your attitude toward academics in general is crystal clear. (Although it's true that a few academics can be annoying 🙂)

 

44 minutes ago, not-enough-cruising said:

Research in a laboratory is what some people do. Real life application is what other people do.

 

Academic scientists didn't just work in the labs over many years to develop mRNA technology.

 

They were in management as well, in real life, running a company, getting vaccines into world.

 

I get that you don't like the new CDC director. I'm also frustrated with the CDC bureaucracy.

 

But IMHO that doesn't justify these anti-academic generalizations. If/when there's a new director, we should probably still get someone with the background necessary to understand the scientific issues.

 

[ace2542]

1 hour ago, BecciBoo said:

If what you say is true, then all ships have one case at least. I do not believe they lie.  Too much to lose for the lines, and fines etc.  They take a Noro outbreak very seriously.

They should enforce mask wearing on cruise ships forever to prevent getting Colds, Flus and Covid in the future. There is no reason to catch either of these 3 things on a cruise ship.

 

And do people lie or should I say not report possibly having norovirus? Of course they do they just take the over the counter medication they bought with them. Why do you think they don't sell immodium plus onboard a ship? Or they track the purchase if they do.

Edited April 3, 2021 by ace2542

[not-enough-cruising]

35 minutes ago, Shorewalk Holmes said:

 

Well, here's what you said in the first post:

 

 

"Very rarely are “academics” able to properly function in a real life environment. 
 

There is a saying in the professional medical community (perhaps others as well) 

 

“Those that can, do. Those that can’t, teach”"

 

 

Your attitude toward academics in general is crystal clear. (Although it's true that a few academics can be annoying 🙂)

 

 

Academic scientists didn't just work in the labs over many years to develop mRNA technology.

 

They were in management as well, in real life, running a company, getting vaccines into world.

 

I get that you don't like the new CDC director. I'm also frustrated with the CDC bureaucracy.

 

But IMHO that doesn't justify these anti-academic generalizations. If/when there's a new director, we should probably still get someone with the background necessary to understand the scientific issues.

 

Your opinion, and I respect that. 

[BecciBoo]

39 minutes ago, ace2542 said:

They should enforce mask wearing on cruise ships forever to prevent getting Colds, Flus and Covid in the future. There is no reason to catch either of these 3 things on a cruise ship.

 

And do people lie or should I say not report possibly having norovirus? Of course they do they just take the over the counter medication they bought with them. Why do you think they don't sell immodium plus onboard a ship? Or they track the purchase if they do.

Firstly, they absolutely sell Imodium on ships, I have bought it myself.  Secondly, you are incorrectly diagnosing stomach disorders as NoroVirus, they most certainly are not.  Thirdly, I have been cruising a lot longer than you, your inception date on these boards is only 2016.  I have never reported a noro virus infection because I have never boarded a ship ill...ever in over 25 cruises and over 250 days at sea.  I did contract an upper respiratory infection on the next to last day of one of our Alaska cruises simply because a woman was coughing and sneezing all over us in the theater that night.  She should have masked herself and not attended the show either.  But I am seldom ill with anything other than allergies and most certainly never masked or distanced myself before February of last year.  I haven't had the flu for almost 15 years now and do vaccinate every year.  I see no reason to mask nor distance on any ship as I have been vaccinated for Covid.  Your lack of general knowledge about infectious diseases, their transmission and cruising is obvious.

[ace2542]

7 minutes ago, BecciBoo said:

Firstly, they absolutely sell Imodium on ships, I have bought it myself.  Secondly, you are incorrectly diagnosing stomach disorders as NoroVirus, they most certainly are not

I have never seen it in the NCL shop? And I am not the only one who is incorrectly diagnosing noro. I really do believe I did NOT have noro despite the outbreak on the Pearl 2019. My father didn't get it and he would have.

 

Do they track the purchase of imodium plus? Like when you buy it does the doctor come knocking on cabin your door 10 minutes later or do you get invited to the reception desk?

Edited April 3, 2021 by ace2542

[BecciBoo]

11 minutes ago, ace2542 said:

I have never seen it in the NCL shop? And I am not the only one who is incorrectly diagnosing noro. I really do believe I did NOT have noro despite the outbreak on the Pearl 2019. My father didn't get it and he would have.

 

Do they track the purchase of imodium plus? Like when you buy it does the doctor come knocking on cabin your door 10 minutes later or do you get invited to the reception desk?

No not at all, I don't know how you formulated your opinion.  RCCL has always sold it.  Noro Virus is not just having Diarrhea which can be caused by many things not connected with Noro.  Mayo Clinic has good info on it: https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/norovirus/symptoms-causes/syc-20355296

 

You can catch this from touching, so even if you are masked forever and distancing, you can get this virus off food and utensils...hence during an outbreak aboard, they will prevent you from serving yourself.  Masks are not a cure all or a preventative in all cases.  Don't fool yourself.

Edited April 3, 2021 by BecciBoo

[dswallow]

You can fly to the US from most any country in the world with just a PCR or an Antigen test within the prior 3 days.

 

So you can fly to Nassau, take a cruise, and fly back to the US. Contrast that with flying to Florida, or NY/NJ, or Houston, or New Orleans, or Seattle, taking a cruise, and then flying home. Tell me the differences between those two activities?

 

No consistency in CDC rules at all, and that's before you get into the conflicting guidance they've issued of late with regard to what someone who is vaccinated can generally do safely now.

 

There's lots of suggestions regarding travel from the CDC, which are fine to have made for cruises as well, but totally blocking them, with the ridiculous level of onerous requirements set forth, partially, so far, no longer makes any sense whatsoever compared to what's going on with other forms of travel out of the country.

[Biker19]

5 hours ago, BecciBoo said:

Thirdly, I have been cruising a lot longer than you, your inception date on these boards is only 2016.

There's little correlation between CC join date and cruising experience.

[jonbgd]

20 hours ago, BecciBoo said:

 Thirdly, I have been cruising a lot longer than you, your inception date on these boards is only 2016.  

Thats a little condescending, dont you think🤔

 

Edited April 4, 2021 by jonbgd

[BecciBoo]

15 hours ago, Biker19 said:

There's little correlation between CC join date and cruising experience.

No there's not, but I had a feeling, anyone who doesn't think cruise ships sell imodium hasn't been doing it long.  And I was right apparently.  Didn't mean to be condescending, just a little intuition.  I am the last poster here who thinks they are above anybody else.  But I do have experience. 25 years of it.

[ATG]

I grew up in a college town.  The college was known for it’s department of education.  The saying in our town was

 

Them that can, do.

Them that can’t, teach. 
And them that can’t teach, teach teachers.

 

My experience with many of the academics confirmed that common sense was not a common virtue.

[Shorewalk Holmes]

27 minutes ago, ATG said:

I grew up in a college town.  The college was known for it’s department of education.  The saying in our town was

 

Them that can, do.

Them that can’t, teach. 
And them that can’t teach, teach teachers.

 

My experience with many of the academics confirmed that common sense was not a common virtue.

 

I grew up in a non-college town. 

 

My experience proved beyond doubt that many non-academics don't have common sense either 🙂

 

I'm not a teacher, but those I have known were bright, well-informed, and able to solve real-world problems, even those that need creative, out-of-the-box thinking. 

 

And, as I mentioned earlier, some of the very brightest are now saving the world.

 

 

Edited April 4, 2021 by Shorewalk Holmes

[time4u2go]

56 minutes ago, Shorewalk Holmes said:

I'm not a teacher, but those I have known were bright, well-informed, and able to solve real-world problems, even those that need creative, out-of-the-box thinking. 

I agree!  When I hear people use that expression ("Those that can't, teach"), it seems very disrespectful to teachers.  Teaching is a very admirable and important profession.

[sandebeach]

2 hours ago, BecciBoo said:

No there's not, but I had a feeling, anyone who doesn't think cruise ships sell imodium hasn't been doing it long.  And I was right apparently.  Didn't mean to be condescending, just a little intuition.  I am the last poster here who thinks they are above anybody else.  But I do have experience. 25 years of it.

Not to be contrary but Holland America did not sell Imodium onboard back in 2015. Since then, I have always carried some in our cruising first aid travel bag. 

[BecciBoo]

25 minutes ago, sandebeach said:

Not to be contrary but Holland America did not sell Imodium onboard back in 2015. Since then, I have always carried some in our cruising first aid travel bag. 

I can only speak to RCCL.  But we've only needed it on a couple of occasions because of the rich foods on cruises, never  because of Noro. We had to purchase it onboard and they had it.  In fact, I've never had Noro nor have any of our friends that I know of.  Only upper respiratory infection and only once.  

[cured]

On 4/3/2021 at 6:11 AM, BecciBoo said:

It's funny to me that a ship full of vaccinated people, who are in all effect "quarantined" out at sea can be considered the most at risk group around when others are flying sitting inches apart on a tin can up in the air for hours are just OK?  Not to mention sporting events etc.  Maybe these clowns have never heard the term "COMMON SENSE".  CLIA should know better after 20 years of successful Norovirus cruises.  I just don't get these idjits!  I have confidence that someone somewhere can persuade them how stupid they are behaving and that our Sept. cruise WILL take place.  I'm banking on it.

 

You can add FUBAR to that phrase....

But it is not a fully vaccinated ship. You have the 17 and unders that are not vaccinated. Young people do get the virus and it could cause disruptions to all the vaccinated people's cruises.  Our high schools in our districts are quarantining different cohorts on a weekly basis.

 

And now we have the 23 year old who attended an NCAA game on 3/28. He was hospitalized the next day, so he was contagious when at the game.  He died on Friday.  

 

Now comes the nightmare of having to contact trace the game, the plane, and everyone who might have come in contact with him. Think of how many people are now going to have to quarantine because of one person. And this gives the CDC more fodder to say "See, you can't put large groups of people together."  

 

An actual fully vaccinated ship I can see sailing. However, including almost adults, as in teens, is a potential for outbreak, causing everyone else to potentially miss ports or having their cruise cut short.  

 

And I am saying this as someone who LOVES kids. We sail in the summer and the more kids the better. We prefer to sail Oasis Class in the aft Crown Lofts because we love to people watch, especially watching the rowdy games on the sports court.  I don't want to see kids excluded. However, until there is a vaccine for them, a cruise cannot in theory sail completely vaccinated.

 

Pfizer is supposedly filing for emergency authorization for the 12-16 year olds this week. Fingers crossed that RCCL will amend their protocols and require everyone over 12 to have the vaccine in order to sail.  

 

Perhaps the CDC will be more amiable to an actually fully vaccinated cruise of passengers 12 and up.

[smokeybandit]

5 minutes ago, cured said:

Think of how many people are now going to have to quarantine because of one person.

 

For as limited as attendance was, not many, if any

 

  

5 minutes ago, cured said:

Pfizer is supposedly filing for emergency authorization for the 12-16 year olds this week. Fingers crossed that RCCL will amend their protocols and require everyone over 12 to have the vaccine in order to sail.  

 

I'd be very surprised if they get EUA for a 3000 person study.  It's entirely possible they don't get EUA at all for a kid's vaccine since giving a vaccine to a demographic that has a very low susceptibility to covid (only 1.5% of those in the trial's placebo group got covid) is not part of what an EUA is for.

 

Vaccinated people that concerned about getting covid from kids they won't even have close contact with on a ship should just stay away from cruising for a while

Edited April 4, 2021 by smokeybandit