Senate passes the Alaska Tourism Recovery Act

[AmazedByCruising]

2 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

And, no, it does not.  It can only "carve out" specific ships, on specific routes, for specific time periods.  It cannot say "this applies to all "cruise ships" and not to other passenger vessels", and it cannot be an indefinite proposal. 

 

Let's see how it works out. I believe that the specific ships and the specific routes will eventually be "actual cruise ships with a pool and formal nights when lobster is served are always OK but we don't mean the duck boats", and the people hired to do legal stuff will find a way to make that happen.  Just saying "A cruise ship" could even be enough guidance for a judge. They should be smart enough to understand what the lawmakers meant, just like any 6 year old can see the obvious difference between a cruise ship and a duck boat.

[ontheweb]

4 hours ago, 1ANGELCAT said:

Noordam Most Definitely Exists.    

My bad, you are correct. I was thinking of another HAL ship that we sailed on that no longer exists, the Maasdam.

 

But the Pacific Princess is listed, and that has been sold and is no longer the Pacific Princess. So I was half right.

[ontheweb]

15 minutes ago, AmazedByCruising said:

 

Let's see how it works out. I believe that the specific ships and the specific routes will eventually be "actual cruise ships with a pool and formal nights when lobster is served are always OK but we don't mean the duck boats", and the people hired to do legal stuff will find a way to make that happen.  Just saying "A cruise ship" could even be enough guidance for a judge. They should be smart enough to understand what the lawmakers meant, just like any 6 year old can see the obvious difference between a cruise ship and a duck boat.

International treaties that the US are part of (I believe the chief has referred to them as SOLAS) define a passenger ship as carrying 12 or more.

 

I could see a judge seeing that as guidance that you cannot just willy nilly change something because some people really want Alaska cruises without a Canadian stop.

[rafinmd]

A question for the Chief.  If somehow Canada could be persuaded to allow ships to dock in Vancouver, closing the public parts of Canada Place for the day and allow the passengers enter Canada to visit the exhibits and public parts of the complex without being allowed to leave the complex and mingle with Canadians other than Immigration and center staff would that satisfy the requirements of the PVSA.  It would be such a very heavy lift and would require concessions to Canada but I wonder if it's possible.

 

Roy

 

[LAFFNVEGAS]

Just for the record I do not think that Vancouver is even being considered to be a stop at this point for 2021. If the ships leave from Seattle, the stop is normally Victoria. At this point they just need to make that quick stop there and possibly not even allow for passengers disembarkation. I have actually cruised to Alaska numerous times and 2 times due to winds or other circumstances the passengers were not able to disembark so it does happen often each season.

For right now of the late July through September season of Seattle Sailings to Alaska I think the only stop actually involved is Victoria.

[T8NCruise]

27 minutes ago, rafinmd said:

A question for the Chief.  If somehow Canada could be persuaded to allow ships to dock in Vancouver, closing the public parts of Canada Place for the day and allow the passengers enter Canada to visit the exhibits and public parts of the complex without being allowed to leave the complex and mingle with Canadians other than Immigration and center staff would that satisfy the requirements of the PVSA.  It would be such a very heavy lift and would require concessions to Canada but I wonder if it's possible.

 

Roy

 

I think Vancouverites would be mighty pissed off at having parts of Canada Place closed off to them for the benefit of cruisers!  Patience, eventually all international visitors will be able to come.

[d9704011]

26 minutes ago, rafinmd said:

A question for the Chief.  If somehow Canada could be persuaded to allow ships to dock in Vancouver, closing the public parts of Canada Place for the day and allow the passengers enter Canada to visit the exhibits and public parts of the complex without being allowed to leave the complex and mingle with Canadians other than Immigration and center staff would that satisfy the requirements of the PVSA.  It would be such a very heavy lift and would require concessions to Canada but I wonder if it's possible.

 

Roy

 

You’ve mixed in two questions; would it satisfy PVSA? and I wonder if it’s possible?

 

Yes.

Not really.

[rkacruiser]

2 hours ago, Lady Arwen said:

I think The Chief’s advice and opinions regarding PVSA are far more reliable, accurate and believable than any politician’s.  

 

I agree with your post.  

 

But, I also believe as a few other posters think that 2021 is a different time when the PVSA was written.  It's time for a change.  It's time for an update to what has been written into maritime law with regard to ships that carry passengers from and to an American port.  

[Horizon chaser 1957]

1 hour ago, T8NCruise said:

I think Vancouverites would be mighty pissed off at having parts of Canada Place closed off to them for the benefit of cruisers!  Patience, eventually all international visitors will be able to come.

I can safely say that the average Vancouverite would rather have root canal surgery than visit certainly parts of Canada Place while a cruise ship is in. While there are all sorts of political reasons that might prevent this from happening, I doubt a burning desire among the locals to stand in a crowd of sweaty people hauling luggage and demanding to know how many cents are in a Canadian dime is one of them.

[d9704011]

3 minutes ago, Horizon chaser 1957 said:

I doubt a burning desire among the locals to stand in a crowd of sweaty people hauling luggage and demanding to know how many cents are in a Canadian dime is one of them.

.... and then having to explain that the penny is no longer in use and how things are rounded up or down to the nearest nickel when making change.

[stairMaster]

The simple solution is to have a cruise ship flag under the US flag and abide by PVSA regulations.  The cruise ship can depart and arrive at any US port from California to Alaska without having to visit a foreign port. Problem solved. It is painfully obvious why this will never happen. 

[Hlitner]

1 hour ago, The-Inside-Cabin said:

No one thought the CDC would drop the mask mandate anytime soon.  Last  Wednesday people were still saying it was a long way off.   

 

Then on Thursday - Presto!     Masks gone for the vaccintated.

 

The same speed can happen with any other restriction.   I am not predicting it will - just saying that people in authority have demonstrated time and time again that they can change their positions 180 degrees with little notice, warning or logic to many observers.

There was a lot of logic to the CDC's rapid change on masks.  The CDC hearings (on Wednesday) made Dr Walensky look somewhat like a mute fool since she did not have a good answer to some of the questions regarding masking on some other related issues.  One of my favorite was when a Senator asked if the CDC had documented a single case of a fully vaccinated person spreading COVID in the Washington D. C. area.  The answer was essentially that we do not gather that kind of data.  But. last year, Congress (and many State governments) had allocated hundreds of millions of dollars for what they called "contact tracing."  Funny thing about all that "contact tracing."  Where are the results?  or perhaps the results did not support the current agenda?  

 

Hank

[Host Jazzbeau]

2 hours ago, The-Inside-Cabin said:

No one thought the CDC would drop the mask mandate anytime soon.  Last  Wednesday people were still saying it was a long way off.   

 

Then on Thursday - Presto!     Masks gone for the vaccintated.

 

The same speed can happen with any other restriction.   I am not predicting it will - just saying that people in authority have demonstrated time and time again that they can change their positions 180 degrees with little notice, warning or logic to many observers.

"people" – Including the Director of the CDC!

[chengkp75]

12 hours ago, rafinmd said:

A question for the Chief.  If somehow Canada could be persuaded to allow ships to dock in Vancouver, closing the public parts of Canada Place for the day and allow the passengers enter Canada to visit the exhibits and public parts of the complex without being allowed to leave the complex and mingle with Canadians other than Immigration and center staff would that satisfy the requirements of the PVSA.  It would be such a very heavy lift and would require concessions to Canada but I wonder if it's possible.

 

Roy

 

Sure it would meet the CBP's ruling on port calls.  But would the cruise line be willing to pay for the additional security required to ensure the quarantine bubble, and for the additional sanitation before the area was reopened to the Canadian public?

[ontheweb]

13 hours ago, LAFFNVEGAS said:

Just for the record I do not think that Vancouver is even being considered to be a stop at this point for 2021. If the ships leave from Seattle, the stop is normally Victoria. At this point they just need to make that quick stop there and possibly not even allow for passengers disembarkation. I have actually cruised to Alaska numerous times and 2 times due to winds or other circumstances the passengers were not able to disembark so it does happen often each season.

For right now of the late July through September season of Seattle Sailings to Alaska I think the only stop actually involved is Victoria.

There is a large difference between a port stop being skipped due to winds and/or other circumstances and not scheduling the port stop. The first would be eligible for a waiver for "violating" the law while the second would be an intentional violation of the law.

 

[St. Louis Sal]

11 hours ago, Hlitner said:

There was a lot of logic to the CDC's rapid change on masks.  The CDC hearings (on Wednesday) made Dr Walensky look somewhat like a mute fool since she did not have a good answer to some of the questions regarding masking on some other related issues.  One of my favorite was when a Senator asked if the CDC had documented a single case of a fully vaccinated person spreading COVID in the Washington D. C. area.  The answer was essentially that we do not gather that kind of data.  But. last year, Congress (and many State governments) had allocated hundreds of millions of dollars for what they called "contact tracing."  Funny thing about all that "contact tracing."  Where are the results?  or perhaps the results did not support the current agenda?  

 

Hank

Unlike other countries, contact tracing never was implemented. Why? Reasons as diverse as too many people to follow, no plan in place to do it (no sign-ins, no app like other countries) and of course the all purpose “my freedom is violated when you contact trace me”. So there you have it.

[Hlitner]

32 minutes ago, St. Louis Sal said:

Unlike other countries, contact tracing never was implemented. Why? Reasons as diverse as too many people to follow, no plan in place to do it (no sign-ins, no app like other countries) and of course the all purpose “my freedom is violated when you contact trace me”. So there you have it.

Like many things, COVID, there was some contact tracing done but much happened with State and Local governments who were allocated money by the Trump administration.  We are talking hundreds of million of dollars for this task (I do not think anyone has the real number).  In our State and in most neighboring States, many folks were hired solely for this task.  But trying to research the results has proven difficult since the money did go out the door, folks were on the job, but any results seemed to usually disappear in the ether.   So, for example, when the CDC said we needed to wear masks "for our own safety" they actually had few facts to support the edict.  The only decent mask study was done in Denmark and simply proved that masks did not work (this study was ignored by the CDC and our media).   There are also numerous studies that show 6 foot of social distancing is worthless (you actually need a much larger distance to achieve the goal) but that info was mostly ignored because it did not fit the "agenda."  If we had based social distancing on an old MIT study then 200 feet would have been about right.

 

So why some folks (strangely from Canada and Australia) have constantly flamed me for trashing the CDC, I can support what I say with facts.  But when it comes to COVID, in many quarters facts have been simply ignored, "cancelled," or twisted to support various agendas.  In the case of the cruise industry shut down and the CSO the CDC seems to have a position that "do what we say, do not muddy the waters with facts, and keep your mouth shut.

 

Hank

 

Hank

[TiogaCruiser]

1 hour ago, St. Louis Sal said:

Unlike other countries, contact tracing never was implemented. Why? Reasons as diverse as too many people to follow, no plan in place to do it (no sign-ins, no app like other countries) and of course the all purpose “my freedom is violated when you contact trace me”. So there you have it.

Bolding mine.
Not true. (Though that might have been correct for your local area- certainly not nationwide).

 

Colleagues and I spent many a day, including lots of overtime, doing traditional contact tracing ( including teaching and resource referrals) at the beginning of covid. We put our normal jobs on hold. 1 or 2 cases done throughly can take a full day (depending on how many contacts, work, if external isolation needed, etc.) As testing ramped up, we were quickly overloaded and had to prioritize efforts and regroup. And rely on cases to notify their contacts. (Most said they had already done so.) Most people were cooperative but still many declined sharing information on contacts, or did not pick up the phone or return calls. The function is still being done with a combination of a contracted company contacting individuals and staff members working with employers, schools and other institutions.

Contact tracing is an old tool for public health disease control and much of the public has not been aware of it until now. It’s less effective with covid, (a virulent virus with a short incubation period spread through aerosols and droplets, by people who are pre-symptomatic or asymptotic) than against other diseases such as TB or GC which have entirely different properties.

[ontheweb]

2 hours ago, St. Louis Sal said:

Unlike other countries, contact tracing never was implemented. Why? Reasons as diverse as too many people to follow, no plan in place to do it (no sign-ins, no app like other countries) and of course the all purpose “my freedom is violated when you contact trace me”. So there you have it.

When DW was quarantined (she is a teacher and one of the students contacted Covid and DW had lunch duty when the student was of course not masked), the calls from the state health department checking that she was home and not going out came up in caller id as contact tracing.

 

As far as I know they did not ask her who she had contact with. They also when she asked them said that I did not have to quarantine.

[rafinmd]

10 minutes ago, ontheweb said:

As far as I know they did not ask her who she had contact with. They also when she asked them said that I did not have to quarantine.

Unless she tested positive I would not expect her to be asked.  I believe they are looking for contacts of actual positives.

In Maryland we got reports of the types of activities people were doing that came up in contact tracing.  Spread appeared to be mostly from private gatherings.

 

Roy

[CruiserBruce]

4 friends who all tested positive were contacted by the county of residence for contact tracing. Contact tracing definitely happened, at least in several counties around here.

[TiogaCruiser]

41 minutes ago, rafinmd said:

Unless she tested positive I would not expect her to be asked.  I believe they are looking for contacts of actual positives.

In Maryland we got reports of the types of activities people were doing that came up in contact tracing.  Spread appeared to be mostly from private gatherings.

 

Roy

Exactly, as long as she remained asymptotic. We were instructing such contacts to call us and/or get themselves tested if they became symptomatic.

 

We were originally calling people to confirm isolation and assess for decline, but had to stop based on priorities.

 

We saw social spread too, along with spread in work environments where people were close together sharing air (manufacturing, shipping, multiple families living in the same small apartment, etc.)

Edited May 17, 2021 by TiogaCruiser

[bcummin]

Contact tracing continues in our Pacific Northwest Washington state county.

Our newspaper prints daily articles reporting the activities of the Health Department.  No names, unless there is no cooperation.  Last year one bar was named on the front page of the newspaper.  I feel pleased that our local Health Department has worked so hard for us, especially providing the mass vaccination clinics with so many community volunteers.

 Barbara

[ontheweb]

1 hour ago, rafinmd said:

Unless she tested positive I would not expect her to be asked.  I believe they are looking for contacts of actual positives.

In Maryland we got reports of the types of activities people were doing that came up in contact tracing.  Spread appeared to be mostly from private gatherings.

 

Roy

If that is the criterion, shouldn't they ask for her to get tested?

[igraf]

21 hours ago, ontheweb said:

 

I could see a judge seeing that as guidance that you cannot just willy nilly change something because some people really want Alaska cruises without a Canadian stop.

 

Recovering the economy from a pandemic is not "willy nilly".  In fact, I would say that making a convenience stop in a foreign country just to satisfy an archaic law qualifies as willy nilly.

 

igraf