Do you think there will be a time soon when no vaccine is required to cruise?

[CruiserBruce]

14 minutes ago, Lois R said:

I just read he got his first shot AFTER he had the positive test.....so who knows what the PGA is doing.

He actually got his first shot after he learned he might have been exposed. He still needs to quarantine for 10 days. He got the shot Tuesday...not enough time for the vaccine to start to work. But it might be a good case study for the scientists to make note of, to determine if getting the shot anytime after exposure helps or not. Tough to prove, but I am sure they have some ways.

 

https://sports.yahoo.com/jon-rahm-hits-takes-six-073418306.html

[Hlitner]

27 minutes ago, Lois R said:

I just read he got his first shot AFTER he had the positive test.....so who knows what the PGA is doing.

I have not seen that anywhere but I guess anything is possible.  But it would make no difference in terms of him being tossed out of the golf tournament.  I had to smile when I read that some of the Sports Books were still going to pay off as though he had won the tournament.   But you can read about the PGA simply following its published protocol for which there is no mercy for an unvaccinated person who tests postiive.

 

Hank

[cruisemom42]

23 minutes ago, Geobugs said:

DeSantis stands by no cruise ship exemption for ‘vaccine passports’  https://www.orlandosentinel.com/business/tourism/os-bz-desantis-cruise-ships-vaccine-passports-20210528-n7jed5ukszchpizifs534iorhi-story.html

 

But the article you link to is from two days BEFORE the one linked by Flatbush Flyer. Out of date.

[Flatbush Flyer]

18 minutes ago, Geobugs said:

DeSantis stands by no cruise ship exemption for ‘vaccine passports’  https://www.orlandosentinel.com/business/tourism/os-bz-desantis-cruise-ships-vaccine-passports-20210528-n7jed5ukszchpizifs534iorhi-story.html

The Orlando Sentinel only know what is said in a press release/conference. They don’t have a reporter at the maritime industry/gov’s office powwows that have been going on the past few weeks.

DeSantis has painted himself into a corner from which he will not emerge if he chases the cruise industry out of Florida. Perhaps he’s forgotten that all those ships (and their dollars) are mobile and there are plenty of other states/countries ready to become a home port. 
 

[Geobugs]

https://www.flgov.com/2021/06/03/cdc-obstructs-backs-orders-discriminating-against-children-and-breaks-florida-law/

 

By imposing unlawful vaccination requirements for cruise ships — something no other business can do — the CDC is discriminating against families with children, preventing them from cruising. At this time, COVID-19 vaccines are not approved for children under 12, yet the CDC rules would require 95% of all passengers to be vaccinated. Approximately 30% of cruise passengers are children. It is not possible for families to enjoy a cruise vacation under these unlawful regulations — they would either have to leave their children at home or forego the vacation altogether. 

 

By leaving children behind, the entire cruise industry would fundamentally change, excluding countless families. In 2017, the average cruise travel party had an average of more than two children (CLIA, 2018) and vacationers who took cruises were more likely (32 percent) to travel with their children than those who went on land-based (25 percent) vacations (CLIA, 2018). 

 

In 2017, the average age of children in cruise travel parties was 6 to 12 years old (CLIA, 2018) — too young to be eligible for COVID-19 vaccination. Moreover, COVID-19 is less dangerous for children than seasonal influenza; there is no scientific justification to mandate vaccination for young children. 

[cruisemom42]

6 minutes ago, Geobugs said:

By imposing unlawful vaccination requirements for cruise ships — something no other business can do — the CDC is discriminating against families with children, preventing them from cruising.

 

Who sold you that bill of goods?

 

It has already been validated that businesses can require proof of vaccination when there are overriding health concerns:

 

https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2021/may/26/instagram-posts/no-it-not-illegal-businesses-require-proof-vaccina/

[navybankerteacher]

15 minutes ago, Geobugs said:

https://www.flgov.com/2021/06/03/cdc-obstructs-backs-orders-discriminating-against-children-and-breaks-florida-law/

 

By imposing unlawful vaccination requirements for cruise ships — something no other business can do — the CDC is discriminating against families with children, preventing them from cruising. At this time, COVID-19 vaccines are not approved for children under 12, yet the CDC rules would require 95% of all passengers to be vaccinated. Approximately 30% of cruise passengers are children. It is not possible for families to enjoy a cruise vacation under these unlawful regulations — they would either have to leave their children at home or forego the vacation altogether. 

 

By leaving children behind, the entire cruise industry would fundamentally change, excluding countless families. In 2017, the average cruise travel party had an average of more than two children (CLIA, 2018) and vacationers who took cruises were more likely (32 percent) to travel with their children than those who went on land-based (25 percent) vacations (CLIA, 2018). 

 

In 2017, the average age of children in cruise travel parties was 6 to 12 years old (CLIA, 2018) — too young to be eligible for COVID-19 vaccination. Moreover, COVID-19 is less dangerous for children than seasonal influenza; there is no scientific justification to mandate vaccination for young children. 

You really should be more careful before making such absurd broad statements .  While young children may be at low risk of serious COVID infections, they certainly are capable of transmitting the virus to unvaccinated members of the adult population:  THAT is such a scientific justification.

 

p.s. There is ample reason to believe that children 6 to 12 years old will shortly be eligible fir COVID 19 vaccination.

[Lois R]

1 hour ago, CruiserBruce said:

He actually got his first shot after he learned he might have been exposed. He still needs to quarantine for 10 days. He got the shot Tuesday...not enough time for the vaccine to start to work. But it might be a good case study for the scientists to make note of, to determine if getting the shot anytime after exposure helps or not. Tough to prove, but I am sure they have some ways.

 

https://sports.yahoo.com/jon-rahm-hits-takes-six-073418306.html

Hi Bruce, thanks for the correction.........so between the shot and yesterday he was still positive.

Should he have even been playing in the tournament?

[Flatbush Flyer]

21 minutes ago, cruisemom42 said:

 

Who sold you that bill of goods?

 

It has already been validated that businesses can require proof of vaccination when there are overriding health concerns:

 

https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2021/may/26/instagram-posts/no-it-not-illegal-businesses-require-proof-vaccina/

Not only that but, the cruise lines’ new T&Cs could require vaccine and then check before reaching the first port - having pre-warned passengers than non-compliance will require them to disembark  at that first stop.

Take that DeSantis, King of Swamplandia!
 

[Geobugs]

30 minutes ago, navybankerteacher said:

You really should be more careful before making such absurd broad statements .  While young children may be at low risk of serious COVID infections, they certainly are capable of transmitting the virus to unvaccinated members of the adult population:  THAT is such a scientific justification.

 

p.s. There is ample reason to believe that children 6 to 12 years old will shortly be eligible fir COVID 19 vaccination.

 

These are the statements of the Governor of Florida from his official website. 

 

[CruiserBruce]

19 minutes ago, Lois R said:

Hi Bruce, thanks for the correction.........so between the shot and yesterday he was still positive.

Should he have even been playing in the tournament?

The article says he could play as long as he was negative. 

[Honolulu Blue]

2 hours ago, Geobugs said:

On MSC, vaccinations are not required.  In Florida, when I live and will depart, Governor DeSantis said no vaccination passports.  I don't have to get off at the ports of call. 

 

2 hours ago, sanger727 said:

what MSC does is irrelevant. They don’t have to deal with the CDC who has shut cruising down for 18 months. 

 

Passengers never have to get off in port, but they have to follow rules assuming they will. If a port of call requires a vaccine for entry, the cruise line will either have to verify vaccine status for everyone or reroute away.  Fortunately (or not), I am not aware of any ports in North America that explicitly require a vaccine to enter by ship.

 

When MSC decides they want to sail out of or to any U.S. port, they will have to deal with the CDC and its rules. I haven't heard about their plans in a while, perhaps because they've been so busy trying to sail everywhere else.

[Flatbush Flyer]

1 hour ago, cruisemom42 said:

 

Who sold you that bill of goods?

 

It has already been validated that businesses can require proof of vaccination when there are overriding health concerns:

 

https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2021/may/26/instagram-posts/no-it-not-illegal-businesses-require-proof-vaccina/

It’s Swamplandia - home of fake news!(?)

[ontheweb]

11 hours ago, CruiserBruce said:

He actually got his first shot after he learned he might have been exposed. He still needs to quarantine for 10 days. He got the shot Tuesday...not enough time for the vaccine to start to work. But it might be a good case study for the scientists to make note of, to determine if getting the shot anytime after exposure helps or not. Tough to prove, but I am sure they have some ways.

 

https://sports.yahoo.com/jon-rahm-hits-takes-six-073418306.html

I was going to quote Hank and say but at least he does not have to worry about the possible long term side effects of an unapproved vaccines <sarcasm>, but now I see he is taking the vaccines.

 

I guess better late than never. And maybe his plight can be a teaching lesson for some others who remain unvaccinated.

[navybankerteacher]

10 hours ago, Geobugs said:

 

These are the statements of the Governor of Florida from his official website. 

 

I thought that only the Pope was considered infallible.

[mammajamma2013]

10 hours ago, Honolulu Blue said:

When MSC decides they want to sail out of or to any U.S. port, they will have to deal with the CDC and its rules. I haven't heard about their plans in a while, perhaps because they've been so busy trying to sail everywhere else.

OP states he's sailing MSC out of Florida, so they will have to deal with the CDC and its rules.

[broberts]

11 hours ago, Geobugs said:

https://www.flgov.com/2021/06/03/cdc-obstructs-backs-orders-discriminating-against-children-and-breaks-florida-law/

 

By imposing unlawful vaccination requirements for cruise ships — something no other business can do — the CDC is discriminating against families with children, preventing them from cruising. At this time, COVID-19 vaccines are not approved for children under 12, yet the CDC rules would require 95% of all passengers to be vaccinated. Approximately 30% of cruise passengers are children. It is not possible for families to enjoy a cruise vacation under these unlawful regulations — they would either have to leave their children at home or forego the vacation altogether. 

 

By leaving children behind, the entire cruise industry would fundamentally change, excluding countless families. In 2017, the average cruise travel party had an average of more than two children (CLIA, 2018) and vacationers who took cruises were more likely (32 percent) to travel with their children than those who went on land-based (25 percent) vacations (CLIA, 2018). 

 

In 2017, the average age of children in cruise travel parties was 6 to 12 years old (CLIA, 2018) — too young to be eligible for COVID-19 vaccination. Moreover, COVID-19 is less dangerous for children than seasonal influenza; there is no scientific justification to mandate vaccination for young children. 

 

Get your facts right. The CDC is not requiring anyone be vaccinated.

 

 

 

 

Edited June 7, 2021 by broberts

[sanger727]

7 hours ago, mammajamma2013 said:

OP states he's sailing MSC out of Florida, so they will have to deal with the CDC and its rules.

If they actually sail out of the US in November. It seems like the are doing well in other parts of the world. They may not bother dealing with the CDC requirements.

[Joebucks]

19 hours ago, cruisemom42 said:

 

Who sold you that bill of goods?

 

It has already been validated that businesses can require proof of vaccination when there are overriding health concerns:

 

https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2021/may/26/instagram-posts/no-it-not-illegal-businesses-require-proof-vaccina/

 

The only problem with this argument is that the Florida governor says otherwise

[cruisemom42]

11 minutes ago, Joebucks said:

 

The only problem with this argument is that the Florida governor says otherwise

 

First, I would gently remind you that in our country, just because someone in power says something is true doesn't necessarily make it true unless it is backed by the appropriate legal framework.

 

Second, (knowing that Florida has already passed some law in this regard, although not explicit in your statement) I suppose it depends on whether you consider this to be a state or a federal issue. 😷

 

[SuiteTraveler]

Now, RCCL has agreed to sail with unvaccinated passengers:  https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/royal-caribbean-cruises-unvaccinated-desantis-b1861352.html

 

Meanwhile NCL is not backing down on their 100% vaccinated plan:

https://www.sun-sentinel.com/business/fl-bz-cruise-lines-vaccine-passport-pressure-20210607-jqxluutwlvczvbzbcyrvtkrby4-story.html

 

 

[Lois R]

I don't sail with Royal and this definitely doesn't do anything for me (in terms of wanting to sail with them in the future).  This discussion is happening all over the boards..........for the last couple of days.

[Honolulu Blue]

MSC plans to sail while allowing unvaccinated customers.  What will the unvaxxed and/or unverified have to do instead?  They'll tell us later.  But not too much later - they plan to start regular cruising in August and September with their two ships.

 

Source:  MSC Cruises Announces U.S. Restart - Cruise Industry News | Cruise News

[Joebucks]

13 hours ago, cruisemom42 said:

 

First, I would gently remind you that in our country, just because someone in power says something is true doesn't necessarily make it true unless it is backed by the appropriate legal framework.

 

Second, (knowing that Florida has already passed some law in this regard, although not explicit in your statement) I suppose it depends on whether you consider this to be a state or a federal issue. 😷

 

 

The more I've learned about law, the more I've learned how it can be more political vs black and white. We can pick what we want to enforce. We can interpret things in ways that we want. If it all was that easy, we would have no need for higher courts.

 

Your matter of fact argument implies a private business has more autonomy to mandate vaccines vs a state governor. We'll see how that pans out. 

[Flatbush Flyer]

17 hours ago, sanger727 said:

If they actually sail out of the US in November. It seems like the are doing well in other parts of the world. They may not bother dealing with the CDC requirements.

MSC doing well? 
https://timesofmalta.com/articles/view/cruise-ship-with-covid-positive-passenger-denied-entry-to-malta.877595?fbclid=IwAR13u57px57O0fZ_1cFHk8rwcOAGehN0gya59suK8gWmNXnSeUDEv-WLGWc#.YL5JI_r7B-4.facebook

 

Time for folks to “put up or shut up.” Please boycott MSC and RCCL and any other line that backs down from the vaccine requirement.