Big news tomorrow (apparently!)

[markeb]

1 hour ago, Jeremiah1212 said:

 

The financials are all RCG brands. They do not report brand by brand. The other graphs are CLIA member cruise lines. Point being, the passengers and the cruise days are largely spent in the Caribbean on seven night cruises by mostly North Americans. 

 

For Celebrity I only have insight to Caribbean info: 

 

New to cruise/new to brand is 50% on 7 nights, 35% on long and 66% on short. 

 

Loyalty is 49% on 7 nights, 67% on long, 34% on short. 

 

Average age 60+ is 51% on 7 night, 75% on long, 37% on short. 

 

Traveling w/ family is 10% on 7 night, 3% on long, 14% on short. 

 

Roughly even split on boomer/silent gen and everyone younger on 7 night cruises, almost 80% boomer/silent gen on long Caribbean. Short Caribbean has a fairly similar generational breakdown. 

 

The largest market for Caribbean cruises is still South Florida (Orlando south) with New York City in the top 5 for 7 night and short Caribbean.

 

 

Actual data! And I bet they have surveys, interviews, and focus group data as well...

 

People on this board may not be in love with the changes, but this looks like a very well thought out strategic move on the part of Celebrity. The data above says 2/3 of cruisers on short cruises are new to cruising or new to Celebrity, statistically younger than on long cruises, and more likely to travel with families. In other words, the cruisers they need to grow in the future. And ideally not simply cannibalized from RCI. Celebrity becoming too much RCI doesn't help RCG.

 

Reflection has the most suites of the S-Class. The shorter cruises are more likely to attract young professionals, probably with children. Celebrity offers something other than "water slides and zip lines". If you can get more of your first timers in a suite, they're going to be more likely to look at a suite for their next cruise. Or at a minimum they may be more likely to pay for a drink package. And they'll probably view CocoCay as a plus (surveys, focus groups, interviews...). I would expect the shorter cruises to also offer more opportunities for first day or one-time revenue (package upgrades, dining packages, photo packages, etc.) over longer cruises (twice as many first days).

 

We'll see if it works. But it's something more than simply cutting costs and raising prices.

 

 

[Cap_D]

4 minutes ago, markeb said:

 

Actual data! And I bet they have surveys, interviews, and focus group data as well...

 

People on this board may not be in love with the changes, but this looks like a very well thought out strategic move on the part of Celebrity. The data above says 2/3 of cruisers on short cruises are new to cruising or new to Celebrity, statistically younger than on long cruises, and more likely to travel with families. In other words, the cruisers they need to grow in the future. And ideally not simply cannibalized from RCI. Celebrity becoming too much RCI doesn't help RCG.

 

Reflection has the most suites of the S-Class. The shorter cruises are more likely to attract young professionals, probably with children. Celebrity offers something other than "water slides and zip lines". If you can get more of your first timers in a suite, they're going to be more likely to look at a suite for their next cruise. Or at a minimum they may be more likely to pay for a drink package. And they'll probably view CocoCay as a plus (surveys, focus groups, interviews...). I would expect the shorter cruises to also offer more opportunities for first day or one-time revenue (package upgrades, dining packages, photo packages, etc.) over longer cruises (twice as many first days).

 

We'll see if it works. But it's something more than simply cutting costs and raising prices.

 

 

Fully agree. Your point about suites, is a good one. In the future, someone will need to fill them. And, on many of the RCL ships suites seem like an afterthought, or to skimp on amenities unless one is staying in the highest tiers. For example, many of the RCL ships do not have a coastal kitchen, and those that do,  don't have capacity except for top tier suites.  Oddly, however, that may mean having to go to Johnny Rockets or a double cheeseburger for dinner!  The prices for RCL suites is also through the roof, and often seems significantly higher than Celebrity. 

 

[cw2go]

@Cap_D Seriously Mind Blown! 🤯  You took all of my thoughts and put them in text! 

 

Can you please approach the burger debate with the same finesse? 😂

 

Patty 

 

 

[Eltorodiablo]

1 minute ago, Cap_D said:

Fully agree. Your point about suites, is a good one. In the future, someone will need to fill them. And, on many of the RCL ships suites seem like an afterthought, or to skimp on amenities unless one is staying in the highest tiers. For example, many of the RCL ships do not have a coastal kitchen, and those that do,  don't have capacity except for top tier suites.  Oddly, however, that may mean having to go to Johnny Rockets or a double cheeseburger for dinner!  The prices for RCL suites is also through the roof, and often seems significantly higher than Celebrity. 

 

Fully agree about RCL suites. No one believes me when I tell them how much lower the cost of entry into the full range of suite benefits is on X as opposed to RCL. Sure you can get a Junior Suite for less, but that gets you a minimal list of benefits and amenities, including Coastal Kitchen for dinner when available. Then if you want to add on the drink package, wifi, etc, you're really getting up there. As opposed to X, which a Sky Suite gets you everything, AND the Deluxe Beverage package, wifi, etc,

[mahdnc]

16 minutes ago, markeb said:

 

Actual data! And I bet they have surveys, interviews, and focus group data as well...

 

People on this board may not be in love with the changes, but this looks like a very well thought out strategic move on the part of Celebrity.

 

Even though I am not a fan of the change, I have no problem with CocoCay being added to Caribbean itineraries.  I am sure it makes good business sense.  However I do have a big problem with the implementation.

[Charles4515]

35 minutes ago, TequilaJane said:

I am glad you were always safe. 

8 Most Dangerous Island Countries Or Territories In The Caribbean In 2023

https://www.travelinglifestyle.net/5-most-dangerous-island-countries-in-the-caribbean-in-2023/#:~:text=Listed at number 115 on,as well as armed robberies.

 

 

I have been to all those countries except Trinidad and was always safe. Cruise passengers stay away from the unsafe areas. Number 1 Haiti the stop is at a private island Labadee. Very safe. Number 3 Cuba ruins their whole list. Not dangerous. A very safe destination for tourists. For political reasons the US government does not want us to go there and see it. 

 

All your list proves is that you don't research the destinations, believe click bait and that you probably should not get off the ship any port.

Edited June 28, 2023 by Charles4515

[zitsky]

If the new ships become the gateway to the Caribbean and therefore Celebrity, then Celebrity must keep putting money into new ships to keep the ball rolling.

[Jeremiah1212]

7 hours ago, mahdnc said:

It would be interesting to see an average age & cruise duration pivot table.  Thanks for posting.

 

This is all CLIA cruise lines - again not Celebrity specific but with longer cruises I doubt there is any substantial difference in the overall age. Celebrity does say for the Caribbean specficially  75% are 60+ on long (8 night or more) sailings.

 

 

 

 

Edited June 28, 2023 by Jeremiah1212

[D. B.]

28 minutes ago, Jeremiah1212 said:

 

This is all CLIA cruise lines - again not Celebrity specific but with longer cruises I doubt there is any substantial difference in the overall age. Celebrity does say for the Caribbean specficially  75% are 60+ on long (8 night or more) sailings.

 

 

 

 

Dang. My Age group is off the charts! 

 No it's not Under 12.

[soniam]

6 hours ago, markeb said:

 

Actual data! And I bet they have surveys, interviews, and focus group data as well...

 

People on this board may not be in love with the changes, but this looks like a very well thought out strategic move on the part of Celebrity. The data above says 2/3 of cruisers on short cruises are new to cruising or new to Celebrity, statistically younger than on long cruises, and more likely to travel with families. In other words, the cruisers they need to grow in the future. And ideally not simply cannibalized from RCI. Celebrity becoming too much RCI doesn't help RCG.

 

Reflection has the most suites of the S-Class. The shorter cruises are more likely to attract young professionals, probably with children. Celebrity offers something other than "water slides and zip lines". If you can get more of your first timers in a suite, they're going to be more likely to look at a suite for their next cruise. Or at a minimum they may be more likely to pay for a drink package. And they'll probably view CocoCay as a plus (surveys, focus groups, interviews...). I would expect the shorter cruises to also offer more opportunities for first day or one-time revenue (package upgrades, dining packages, photo packages, etc.) over longer cruises (twice as many first days).

 

We'll see if it works. But it's something more than simply cutting costs and raising prices.

 

 

 

I guess I could see them trying to compete with Disney on the cost level with suites. Disney suites are outrageous, not to mention even their regular cabins. I have seen a lot of people on the DCL forums asking about Celebrity. They are looking for good service and high quality food. I guess they think X and DCL are comparable on those, which I guess they are. X is going to have to up the kids club game probably too; however, I admit I am not as familiar with it as the ones on DCL. Coco Cay would probably be an incentive for this group, especially if you can get a suite for the same price as a verandah or not much more.

[mahdnc]

3 hours ago, Jeremiah1212 said:

 

This is all CLIA cruise lines - again not Celebrity specific but with longer cruises I doubt there is any substantial difference in the overall age. Celebrity does say for the Caribbean specficially  75% are 60+ on long (8 night or more) sailings.

 

 

 

 

 

Thank you again for posting.  The bubble charts are interesting.  I am used to thinking of Asia as a long exotic cruise filled with older passengers (Celebrity perspective), so it's kind of weird to see Asia on the lower bubble chart as a short cruise with young people on board but I guess that is the local market.

[NMTraveller]

13 hours ago, zitsky said:

Let’s replace ALL ports with a visit to a private island.  😂

That would be a cruise to nowhere...

 

Obviously perfect for some...

[Stem to Stern]

21 hours ago, cw2go said:

Can you please approach the burger debate with the same finesse?

I think that ship has already sailed.  Hee hee. 😄

 

[mahdnc]

I don't recall this being discussed--or has it?

https://www.cruisecritic.com/news/celebrity-cruises-looking-at-buying-a-private-island

 

[NMTraveller]

6 minutes ago, mahdnc said:

I don't recall this being discussed--or has it?

https://www.cruisecritic.com/news/celebrity-cruises-looking-at-buying-a-private-island

 

What?  And get rid of the water park and water slides?  😂😂😂😂

Edited July 20, 2023 by NMTraveller

[NorthStarStateCruiser]

49 minutes ago, mahdnc said:

I don't recall this being discussed--or has it?

https://www.cruisecritic.com/news/celebrity-cruises-looking-at-buying-a-private-island

 

Called it. 

 

 

 

[wineoclock]

On 6/29/2023 at 3:07 AM, soniam said:

 

I guess I could see them trying to compete with Disney on the cost level with suites. Disney suites are outrageous, not to mention even their regular cabins. I have seen a lot of people on the DCL forums asking about Celebrity. They are looking for good service and high quality food. I guess they think X and DCL are comparable on those, which I guess they are. X is going to have to up the kids club game probably too; however, I admit I am not as familiar with it as the ones on DCL. Coco Cay would probably be an incentive for this group, especially if you can get a suite for the same price as a verandah or not much more.

Having sailed both, at the time I’d say DCL were superior to X. Shows were superb. Haven’t been on DCL for a few years so can’t comment. Suites on X & DCL. 

[Honolulu Blue]

7 hours ago, mahdnc said:

I don't recall this being discussed--or has it?

https://www.cruisecritic.com/news/celebrity-cruises-looking-at-buying-a-private-island

 

Thanks for sharing this.  It's been mentioned elsewhere, but curiously not anything on this board that I can find.

 

Here are the points that I found of most interest:

 

• LHB got permission from RCI CEO Michael Bayley for Celebrity's use of PD@CC
• She highlighted Coco Beach Club and the upcoming Hideaway Beach as being of most interest to X's customers
• She said that Celebrity plans to eventually get their own private island, but didn't disclose where or provide an ETA
• The plan is to NOT ever share CocoCay with one of Royal's largest ships, only with one of the smaller ones
• She wants to ramp up the entertainment onboard

[zitsky]

8 hours ago, NMTraveller said:

What?  And get rid of the water park and water slides?  😂😂😂😂

I’m right there with you.  No Cococay?  No screaming children?  What’s the point of a cruise?

[paulh84]

Considering her previous role with Royal this is no surprise at all. She was heavily involved in creating Coco Cay. Her new 'goals' basically mirror what she did at Royal. 

 

Hodges Bethge has also served as senior vice president of product development for Royal Caribbean International, leading teams that conceptualized the brand's ships, private island destinations and new experiences, including Perfect Day at CocoCay.

[PTC DAWG]

10 hours ago, mahdnc said:

I don't recall this being discussed--or has it?

https://www.cruisecritic.com/news/celebrity-cruises-looking-at-buying-a-private-island

 

Thanks for the link…I for one would really like this.
 

Also good to hear Celebrity will not be at Coco Cay with an Oasis Class…I have been to the Beach Club on Coco, it’s very nice…the new adults only area sounds appealing too.  

[mahdnc]

3 hours ago, Honolulu Blue said:

Thanks for sharing this.  It's been mentioned elsewhere, but curiously not anything on this board that I can find.

 

Here are the points that I found of most interest:

 

• LHB got permission from RCI CEO Michael Bayley for Celebrity's use of PD@CC
• She highlighted Coco Beach Club and the upcoming Hideaway Beach as being of most interest to X's customers
• She said that Celebrity plans to eventually get their own private island, but didn't disclose where or provide an ETA
• The plan is to NOT ever share CocoCay with one of Royal's largest ships, only with one of the smaller ones
• She wants to ramp up the entertainment onboard

 

As a scuba diver, RCG's "option to develop a private island in Vanuatu, Fiji" was eye opening to me.

[Honolulu Blue]

1 minute ago, mahdnc said:

As a scuba diver, RCG's "option to develop a private island in Vanuatu, Fiji" was eye opening to me.

The article did mention that; thanks for spotlighting it.  To me, it was old news that the article didn't add anything to.  When and if they put spades in the ground, THAT would catch my eye.

[cruisemom42]

On 6/27/2023 at 6:41 AM, Plum Happy said:

The cruises are for those that sail 3/4 night sailings from May to November - beats going to Nassau.  There's one 6 and one 7 night sailing so far on the list on the Beyond.

 

Nothing says Luxury like a 3-day sailing. 😒

[cruisemom42]

Let me preface my comments by saying that I'm not really in the category of cruisers who are interested in Caribbean cruises....

 

That said, I can understand why Celebrity is making the change to shorter and more cruises in the Caribbean at all times of the year. Airfare ex-US is horrendous. Most of my travel is to Europe (and also a cruise around Japan earlier this year), so I have struggled to find fares that required me to sell a kidney, let alone  but finding a direct flight with premium economy seating (my unicorn). 

 

I believe Celebrity is banking on people having a fixed budget for vacations -- if they spend less on the airfare, they are more likely to upgrade their cabin category and purchase extras onboard. For all the reasons already stated, shorter cruises tend to bring in more revenue. I too have noted the many "last minute" sale prices on European itineraries this year.

 

What distresses me is Celebrity's decreasing number of longer cruises being offered. Here I am, newly retired and having had some great cruises on X since Covid. But it's hard to find worthwhile longer itineraries without stringing together a "B2B2B2B" kind of cruise. Not ideal. I wish Celebrity would dedicate a couple of their M class ships to longer itineraries around the world. Maybe one ship in Europe and S. America (seasonally) and another in Asia/Africa. It's a shame X isn't doing this because there is definitely a niche there. HAL is trying to fill it, but I enjoy the onboard experience so much more on Celebrity. My 28 days on HAL in April convinced me that there is too little going on onboard on longer cruises to keep me happy....

 

I like smaller ships. I would never preferentially book an Edge-class ship for an itinerary-intensive cruise. I'd rather a great itinerary than a "new" ship. I'd sail with Oceania or Azamara before I'd do it on an E-class.