Activity Staff Reduction (3 Threads Merged)

[Ma Bell]

I hope they didn't cut Ron Banks on the Eclipse. He was great with the dance & Rumba classes.

 

Unfortunately he's gone.

[Host Anne]

Just a quick note. I plan events in every day life. You either have to survey folks before they leave an event or immediately after or your response rate is going to be low. Maybe cruisers are different but I doubt it. The things you may have noted while you were are onboard are long gone for most (not Cruise Critic members because we obviously remember every little detail ;)) but for most, the window to respond with a meaningful evaluation is short.

 

I'm in favor of electronic. It just has to be available to you as soon as you leave the ship. In our experience, you do not need to give 7 days for a response. If someone doesn't respond in the first 48 hours, in most cases, you aren't going to get a response. People get so many emails these days, that you either respond pretty quickly or not at all.

 

Just our experience.

[C 2 C]

And I find it equally amusing when some refuse to recognize that most posts which refute the "Sky is falling" theory are made by those with extensive cruising experience - with Celebrity as well as other lines.

 

 

The sky might not be falling but it's a lot lower than it used to be.

 

How can you make such a statement that the most posts refuting the topic are coming from those with extensive cruising experience?

 

Have you counted the posts and asked people about their cruise history? Have you taken a poll?

 

Anyone who has cruised with Celebrity over the last decade or more will have noticed the cutbacks in dedicated staff:

 

The Harpist in Murano, The Librarian, the dance hosts, the chaplain on board, bridge directors. There have been cuts in the size of the orchestra, the party band, trios to duos, duos to single performers.

 

The midnight buffet became the chocolate extravaganza, became the brunch, became nothing. The Captain's Club Celebration has been reduced to limited bites compared to wonderful food offerings last year. Staff has been reduced by 10% in the dining room and in housekeeping; waiters serve more tables and room stewards clean more rooms.

 

Sure the sky is not falling and the seas have not dried up, but cruisers with extensive cruising experience have noticed the difference.

[ghstudio]

Excellent balanced post by Host Anne.....For the past few years, cruising has been a very enjoyable way to travel, both cost effective and seeing many places without having to pack/unpack every night. Celebrity offered no smoking and very good food and then they added aqua/blu for a quieter dining experience which we've enjoyed...we booked and enjoyed aqua class for the past two years.

 

Cost cutting is part of business. The key to success is to cut slowly with the facade that you aren't cutting...declare every change as an improvement. Visit any grocery store and look at that quart of ice cream that isn't a quart any more or Breyers Ice cream that is packaged the same as before but is now discretely labeled frozen dessert because they've reduced the cream below the level required to call it ice cream, etc.

 

The key to success for any CEO is increase the bottom line...Bayley is no different...his job, his pay, his resume is based on bottom line results. Operations has the responsibility to redefine jobs and cut expenses; marketing has the task of selling the message that this is the new improved celebrity.

 

That's what's happening. In the real world, most customers don't notice the expense cuts (did you really notice that bag of coffee has less in it today than before) and they don't notice that there are less waiters, somelliers, cabin attendants or pieces in the band). First time cruisers certainly don't notice..they have no frame of reference...and most others don't cruise often enough to really remember their last experience (or it might have been on another cruise line)...and there's enough there that they have a nice experience.

 

For those of us who cruise often, who have cruised celebrity enough to be select or elite,.... we have a frame of reference, many do notice the differences...and some participate here. Many complain here about the changes (and much of that is valid) and still book cruises on Celebrity. I think Celebrity, even the new celebrity still offers a better overall experience than it's other mass market competitors. But given the changes, some start to look at land based vacations (again) or book on other cruise lines...oceania/azamara to get more of the "old celebrity" flavor (service/food/...), or try river cruises. We're in this group.

 

We have two celebrity cruises booked....one because we're going to be in puerto rico for a week with our children and there is a 1 week cruise immediately following on the summit so it fits well going to islands we haven't visited...and one TA only because we want to go to an antique fair in the UK, buy some pottery in the UK (heavy) and this provides a cost effective way to get things home at a cost only slightly higher than flying. But we're going to fly to st petersburg rather than do a baltic cruise, we're going to do an iceland land trip rather than taking a cruise...and we have a river cruise scheduled. We havent' done those type of trips in the past few years...we've been cruising celebrity.

 

Celebrity marketing will continue to sell "modern luxury", whatever that is and operations will continue to make cuts everywhere they can. Yes, they will continue to cut food costs, cut out some more expensive meals and replace them with less expensive ones and so on....it's inevitable. They will lose some customers, a bigger risk is that they will lose some potential customers because most of us talk to many others about cruises, but they will gain some new customers. The jury is out....folks will vote with their $'s.

 

Celebrity has demonstrated that they learn very quickly....they've tried a few things and instantly changed them...eg. they tried no baggage tags...make up your own and that lasted one cruise. They tried the elite vouchers with 2 vouchers and that lasted one day...they increased it to 3 vouchers. I've personally seen these and I've read of other "trials" here.

 

As a stockholder, I'm please so far....my 100 shares is doing well. As a traveler, I've been complacent....and perhaps it's a little more work to figure out what to book, but there are other exciting things to do and way to travel other than cruising. There have been enough changes at Celebrity that they've inspired us to look at the alternatives....and I'm now spending less discretionary income with Celebrity.

 

That's my vote on the changes. Others have to decide if they are just complaining or if they too want to vote with their $'s.

[MVPinBoynton]

We went on our first HAL cruise last month. I was quite worried about the service levels, since people on the HAL board had been complaining about the reduced service levels on their ships. I was impressed with the service levels.

 

Perhaps the slow reduction in staffing at X has not made it seem that dramatic. But reading Arno's post reminds me of many of the things I have missed.

 

We are going on our first Oceania cruise in a couple weeks. I hope it doesn't spoil us too much, since we love X and it is much more affordable than O.

Edited April 6, 2014 by MVPinBoynton

[Loracpin2]

Sitting in FLL after disembarking from March 30 Silhouette. As of 10:00 am this morning only one left on Activities staff was Maartin. Apparently staff was told earlier this week this was their last day. I have to commend them on their update attitude even up to last night.

 

Booked 2015 Europe and 2016 South America while on board. Whether we go or not will be based on our experience on this September's Europe Infinity.

[takemewithyou]

Just home last night from two weeks on Eclipse. I need to gather my thoughts on what I see happening. I wonder what you would think about the fact that they have done away with the on board surveys and have asked passengers to complete a survey online when they get home. I may be wrong, but I think it's likely they won't get as much response from people who are back to the daily grind.

 

I respect your opinions and hope you will share some thoughts with us on changes that you saw on this sailing either on this thread or elsewhere. It seems things on X are changing quite rapidly. I will reserve judgement on whether it is for the positive or not. thanks. :):)

[ECCruise]

And I find it equally amusing when some refuse to recognize that most posts which refute the "Sky is falling" theory are made by those with extensive cruising experience - with Celebrity as well as other lines.

 

The sky might not be falling but it's a lot lower than it used to be.

 

How can you make such a statement that the most posts refuting the topic are coming from those with extensive cruising experience?

 

Have you counted the posts and asked people about their cruise history? Have you taken a poll?

 

Anyone who has cruised with Celebrity over the last decade or more will have noticed the cutbacks in dedicated staff:

 

The Harpist in Murano, The Librarian, the dance hosts, the chaplain on board, bridge directors. There have been cuts in the size of the orchestra, the party band, trios to duos, duos to single performers.

 

The midnight buffet became the chocolate extravaganza, became the brunch, became nothing. The Captain's Club Celebration has been reduced to limited bites compared to wonderful food offerings last year. Staff has been reduced by 10% in the dining room and in housekeeping; waiters serve more tables and room stewards clean more rooms.

 

Sure the sky is not falling and the seas have not dried up, but cruisers with extensive cruising experience have noticed the difference.

 

I agree with Arno here. In fact, it appears that at least some of the rah-rah, "nothing is wrong, they are just minor changes" folks are pretty inexperienced Celebrity cruisers and especially not long time Celebrity cruisers.

 

You can deny it all you want, but there have been cuts, not changes. You can spin decreases in staff any way you want, but that is a cut. You can say the loss of the Grand Buffet is not a concern (it actually isn't to us) but you can't say it is a change, not a cut. You can't "change" something without offering a new substitute.

 

We are not as prolific =X= cruisers as some here (20 on Celebrity ~ 250 total days) and we have 4 more booked, but as Bob Dylan once opined, "you don't need a weatherman to know which way the wind is blowing."

[Cruising89143]

Excellent balanced post by Host Anne.....For the past few years, cruising has been a very enjoyable way to travel, both cost effective and seeing many places without having to pack/unpack every night. Celebrity offered no smoking and very good food and then they added aqua/blu for a quieter dining experience which we've enjoyed...we booked and enjoyed aqua class for the past two years.

 

Cost cutting is part of business. The key to success is to cut slowly with the facade that you aren't cutting...declare every change as an improvement. Visit any grocery store and look at that quart of ice cream that isn't a quart any more or Breyers Ice cream that is packaged the same as before but is now discretely labeled frozen dessert because they've reduced the cream below the level required to call it ice cream, etc.

 

The key to success for any CEO is increase the bottom line...Bayley is no different...his job, his pay, his resume is based on bottom line results. Operations has the responsibility to redefine jobs and cut expenses; marketing has the task of selling the message that this is the new improved celebrity.

 

That's what's happening. In the real world, most customers don't notice the expense cuts (did you really notice that bag of coffee has less in it today than before) and they don't notice that there are less waiters, somelliers, cabin attendants or pieces in the band). First time cruisers certainly don't notice..they have no frame of reference...and most others don't cruise often enough to really remember their last experience (or it might have been on another cruise line)...and there's enough there that they have a nice experience.

 

For those of us who cruise often, who have cruised celebrity enough to be select or elite,.... we have a frame of reference, many do notice the differences...and some participate here. Many complain here about the changes (and much of that is valid) and still book cruises on Celebrity. I think Celebrity, even the new celebrity still offers a better overall experience than it's other mass market competitors. But given the changes, some start to look at land based vacations (again) or book on other cruise lines...oceania/azamara to get more of the "old celebrity" flavor (service/food/...), or try river cruises. We're in this group.

 

We have two celebrity cruises booked....one because we're going to be in puerto rico for a week with our children and there is a 1 week cruise immediately following on the summit so it fits well going to islands we haven't visited...and one TA only because we want to go to an antique fair in the UK, buy some pottery in the UK (heavy) and this provides a cost effective way to get things home at a cost only slightly higher than flying. But we're going to fly to st petersburg rather than do a baltic cruise, we're going to do an iceland land trip rather than taking a cruise...and we have a river cruise scheduled. We havent' done those type of trips in the past few years...we've been cruising celebrity.

 

Celebrity marketing will continue to sell "modern luxury", whatever that is and operations will continue to make cuts everywhere they can. Yes, they will continue to cut food costs, cut out some more expensive meals and replace them with less expensive ones and so on....it's inevitable. They will lose some customers, a bigger risk is that they will lose some potential customers because most of us talk to many others about cruises, but they will gain some new customers. The jury is out....folks will vote with their $'s.

 

Celebrity has demonstrated that they learn very quickly....they've tried a few things and instantly changed them...eg. they tried no baggage tags...make up your own and that lasted one cruise. They tried the elite vouchers with 2 vouchers and that lasted one day...they increased it to 3 vouchers. I've personally seen these and I've read of other "trials" here.

 

As a stockholder, I'm please so far....my 100 shares is doing well. As a traveler, I've been complacent....and perhaps it's a little more work to figure out what to book, but there are other exciting things to do and way to travel other than cruising. There have been enough changes at Celebrity that they've inspired us to look at the alternatives....and I'm now spending less discretionary income with Celebrity.

 

That's my vote on the changes. Others have to decide if they are just complaining or if they too want to vote with their $'s.[/quote]

 

Nice post but the part in bold states it well.

Edited April 6, 2014 by cruisingator2

[wpgcycler]

I agree with Arno here. In fact, it appears that at least some of the rah-rah, "nothing is wrong, they are just minor changes" folks are pretty inexperienced Celebrity cruisers and especially not long time Celebrity cruisers.

 

You can deny it all you want, but there have been cuts, not changes. You can spin decreases in staff any way you want, but that is a cut. You can say the loss of the Grand Buffet is not a concern (it actually isn't to us) but you can't say it is a change, not a cut. You can't "change" something without offering a new substitute.

 

We are not as prolific =X= cruisers as some here (20 on Celebrity ~ 250 total days) and we have 4 more booked, but as Bob Dylan once opined, "you don't need a weatherman to know which way the wind is blowing."

 

Did I say there weren't any cuts? I don't think so. I'm saying that a few cuts does not a sky fall make. On the other hand, not addressing profit requirements could in fact make the company no longer viable - which could in fact mean a "Sky is falling" scenario with the company folding. Take your choice, cuts or price increases. There are other lines to sail and their are many vacation options beyond cruising. Vote with your wallet.

 

Had I read all this doom and gloom prior to booking my first Celebrity cruise, I perhaps would not have. I hope all you experienced cruisers recognize that we newbies, although not as learned as yourselves, are in fact critical to Celebrities continued viability. My positive experience and outlook will result in a second booking - sometime this week.

[ECCruise]

Did I say there weren't any cuts? I don't think so. I'm saying that a few cuts does not a sky fall make. On the other hand, not addressing profit requirements could in fact make the company no longer viable - which could in fact mean a "Sky is falling" scenario with the company folding. Take your choice, cuts or price increases. There are other lines to sail and their are many vacation options beyond cruising. Vote with your wallet.

 

Had I read all this doom and gloom prior to booking my first Celebrity cruise, I perhaps would not have. I hope all you experienced cruisers recognize that we newbies, although not as learned as yourselves, are in fact critical to Celebrities continued viability. My positive experience and outlook will result in a second booking - sometime this week.

 

 

Of course your opinion is every bit as valid as that of a long time cruiser.

 

What I find a bit presumptuous, I guess, is your schooling of cruisers who have spent thousands of days (and hundreds of thousands of dollars) cruising with Celebrity on what and what doesn't constitute a "few cuts". From your profile, it appears (and correct me if I am wrong) you have sailed on Celebrity a total of 7 days on one cruise. What would you possibly have to compare it to? And, looking at your sail date, it appears that you enjoyed (or at least had the option of) the two most recent gripes: The axing of the Activities Staff and the Grand Buffet.

 

And I have done plenty of voting with my wallet with both Celebrity and RCCL, which means now I can voice opinions on what I think is best for the corporation (long term customer satisfaction as opposed to bean counting). This is especially my feeling as a long time shareholder.

[jagoffee]

Yes, they may be eliminating positions but this may or may not lead to reduced activities. Outsourcing, technology and reassignment of other staff could all be employed to maintain or even increase available activities. And surely some could be eliminated in favor of new ones no?

 

I will wait until I cruise and see if the changes negatively affect cruise experience. I would suspect that the popular activities will continue, but we will find out soon enough. I may be in the minority, but I do participate in very many activities. My wife and I love to spend time in the Sky Lounge during the day reading and relaxing and some times the activities actually negatively affect our experience. It seems to me that many of the activities are not well attended considering how many people are on the ship. But some of the activities are very well attended and I would hope they keep at least those.

[ECCruise]

I will wait until I cruise and see if the changes negatively affect cruise experience. I would suspect that the popular activities will continue, but we will find out soon enough. I may be in the minority, but I do participate in very many activities. My wife and I love to spend time in the Sky Lounge during the day reading and relaxing and some times the activities actually negatively affect our experience. It seems to me that many of the activities are not well attended considering how many people are on the ship. But some of the activities are very well attended and I would hope they keep at least those.

 

We, too, will take a wait and see approach. We will be on Eclipse for 21 days this month so will be able to get a good picture of what is occurring. In your post I assume that you meant you do not participate in a lot of activities. We haven't either for many cruises but understand that there are a lot of folks that do and the loss of those activities would be a blow.

 

The other concern that I have, which may be totally unfounded, is that it may put a much bigger load on the CD, who is in many cases already has a good bit on their plate. There would be an unintended (I guess) but significant effect on the overall cruise if you have an unhappy CD running things.

[Esprit]

Hi Peter,

 

I'm happy to hear that Valentina has found other employment. Please wish her all the best of success in her future endeavors. Her bubbly personality will be missed onboard X's ships.

 

Thanks Andy

 

Just caught up reading this thread since Friday.

 

I will certainly pass on your best wishes to Valentina.

 

Regards

 

Peter

[jagoffee]

We, too, will take a wait and see approach. We will be on Eclipse for 21 days this month so will be able to get a good picture of what is occurring. In your post I assume that you meant you do not participate in a lot of activities. We haven't either for many cruises but understand that there are a lot of folks that do and the loss of those activities would be a blow.

 

The other concern that I have, which may be totally unfounded, is that it may put a much bigger load on the CD, who is in many cases already has a good bit on their plate. There would be an unintended (I guess) but significant effect on the overall cruise if you have an unhappy CD running things.

 

Yes, sorry. Typo I meant to say that I do not participate in very many activities.

[cadburysmom]

 

The other concern that I have, which may be totally unfounded, is that it may put a much bigger load on the CD, who is in many cases already has a good bit on their plate. There would be an unintended (I guess) but significant effect on the overall cruise if you have an unhappy CD running things.

I, too, am on the upcoming Eclipse transatlantic and have this same worry. I don't normally take part in many activities but with so many sea days, it's nice having them there if I want to.

 

I will miss the trios and quartets, though. I love live music and felt it one of the things that made Celebrity a cut above the rest.

 

Hoping MA BELL and other recent Eclipse cruisers will share more on their recent experiences.

Edited April 7, 2014 by cadburysmom

[Onessa]

. . . Cost cutting is part of business. The key to success is to cut slowly with the facade that you aren't cutting...declare every change as an improvement. Visit any grocery store and look at that quart of ice cream that isn't a quart any more or Breyers Ice cream that is packaged the same as before but is now discretely labeled frozen dessert because they've reduced the cream below the level required to call it ice cream, etc.

. . . That's what's happening. In the real world, most customers don't notice the expense cuts (did you really notice that bag of coffee has less in it today than before) and they don't notice that there are less waiters, somelliers, cabin attendants or pieces in the band).

More and more consumers are noticing the downsizing of products. I for one, a few years back stopped buying the "bow tie" or "fiori" pasta shapes and just get rotini (16oz vs 12oz for same price) for example. I frequent retailers and brands who make it easy to compare among choices. And I see more and more people in the store, checking sizes and checking prices.

The key to success for any CEO is increase the bottom line...Bayley is no different...his job, his pay, his resume is based on bottom line results. Operations has the responsibility to redefine jobs and cut expenses; marketing has the task of selling the message that this is the new improved celebrity.

this philosophy results in immediate-term cost savings, but has long-term cost consequences.

 

Trying to woo back alienated customers is FAR more expensive than adequate staffing levels. If I have to wait for my room to be made up. . . If they cut back on my dessert choices. . . If I have a bad experience . . . I will be less likely or unlikely to return. Getting me "back" will be difficult.

 

There have been enough changes at Celebrity that they've inspired us to look at the alternatives....and I'm now spending less discretionary income with Celebrity.

 

That's my vote on the changes. Others have to decide if they are just complaining or if they too want to vote with their $'s.

We have found alternatives to cruising. We flew to Venice and stayed put -- did a few day trips on the trains. We still only had to unpack once :), and could decide all on our own where to go and where to eat. Cruising is no longer my first choice for vacationing.

[cavok]

my review will follow, just returned from a 2-week cruise on the eclipse.

 

the sky isn't quite falling but definitely things are in a shallow descent unfortunately...

 

we're not hugely experienced compared to some others here on the boards, but even us with only a few years frame of reference on celebrity have to agree with some of the negativity.

 

that is not to say the cruise wasn't still very good overall, but that things definitely have a noticeable downward trend in many areas, which is never good... we will certainly consider other lines/ships in the future whereas we were loyals and always wowed until now. and it's sad to see that apparently short-term shareholder profit thinking seems to reign. thanks to forums like these, they can't get away with that unharmed.

 

a silver lining to me is how they value feedback in general and that e.g. the main dining room food quality issue, which was all the rage 2 years ago has definitely been fixed! so they are not blind and will have to adjust.

 

back to topic: some of the best activities this cruise specifically were not done by activities staff. e.g. the cooking demos by the chef or ship lectures by officers. in fact, the activity director seemed mostly concerned about letting others do the grunt work and then showing up and garnering attention/presenting himself in the spotlight and on tv. at the same time, schedules, to put it nicely, were "not very smart". so a reshufflling / reorganizing per se in activities does not need to be a bad thing... will be interesting to follow where this goes...

[flag fan]

I enjoy participating in the on-board activities and think the Activities staff can make a cruise. The cuts in the staff is worrisome.

[Orator]

Thanks Andy

 

Just caught up reading this thread since Friday.

 

I will certainly pass on your best wishes to Valentina.

 

Regards

 

Peter

 

Met Valentina on a cruise and she is delightful. Hope she meets with much success.

[mcrcruiser]

We disembarked April 12th from a one week pacific coastal cruise on Century & there is definitely a reduction in the Activity staff:o .Sad to see

 

There is the CD ,a Activities manager & one other person . Only a handful of trivia games.

 

How was the Trans Atlantic cruises for Activities ?

[Andy]

I, too, am on the upcoming Eclipse transatlantic and have this same worry. I don't normally take part in many activities but with so many sea days, it's nice having them there if I want to.

 

I will miss the trios and quartets, though. I love live music and felt it one of the things that made Celebrity a cut above the rest.

 

Hoping MA BELL and other recent Eclipse cruisers will share more on their recent experiences.

 

Im currently onboard Eclipse, and the activity staff was 3, not including the CD (Sue Denning), but is now down to 2. I'm hearing this will be the number for the forseeable future.

 

I must say the activity staff reduction is not seriously affecting our cruise experience, though Sue appears busier than in past sailings. Then again, she's always busy and proactive about everything, so it's tough to judge.

 

We've been very pleased with the entertainment on this sailing, but I'm hearing that big changes are ahead. A telling sign is this : Celebrity has added such "exciting" new features such as Ship Building (making your own ship from onboard items) and an Egg Drop contest - where you build a vessel to hold raw eggs safely when dropped from an upper deck, to deck 3. I can only hope that Celebrity's entertainment department is having a case of temporary insanity.... as if this is where entertainment is headed - it's very concerning.

 

Let's hope Celebrity will re-think this type of "entertainment"... if you want to call it that.

Edited April 15, 2014 by Host Andy

[ghstudio]

Im currently onboard Eclipse, and the activity staff was 3, not including the CD (Sue Denning), but is now down to 2. I'm hearing this will be the number for the forseeable future.

 

I must say the activity staff reduction is not seriously affecting our cruise experience, though Sue appears busier than in past sailings. Then again, she's always busy and proactive about everything, so it's tough to judge.

 

We've been very pleased with the entertainment on this sailing, but I'm hearing that big changes are ahead. A telling sign is this : Celebrity has added such "exciting" new features such as Ship Building (making your own ship from onboard items) and an Egg Drop contest - where you build a vessel to hold raw eggs safely when dropped from an upper deck, to deck 3. I can only hope that Celebrity's entertainment department is having a case of temporary insanity.... as if this is where entertainment is headed - it's very concerning.

 

Let's hope Celebrity will re-think this type of "entertainment"... if you want to call it that.

 

Can the hairy chest contest be far behind?

[cle-guy]

Celebrity has added such "exciting" new features such as Ship Building (making your own ship from onboard items) and an Egg Drop contest - where you build a vessel to hold raw eggs safely when dropped from an upper deck, to deck 3. I can only hope that Celebrity's entertainment department is having a case of temporary insanity.... as if this is where entertainment is headed

 

This was done on my TA last year on Eclipse. The egg drop competition filled the foyer and all the elevator landings, everyone seemed to enjoy it. And mind you, there were probably only 4 kids on the ship.....people were serious about it!

 

It was fun to see the ships people built too.

 

Different strokes, I guess...

[Northern Aurora]

 

...... A telling sign is this : Celebrity has added such "exciting" new features such as Ship Building (making your own ship from onboard items) and an Egg Drop contest - where you build a vessel to hold raw eggs safely when dropped from an upper deck, to deck 3. I can only hope that Celebrity's entertainment department is having a case of temporary insanity.... as if this is where entertainment is headed - it's very concerning.

 

......

 

This is starting to sound like an elementary school science competition where kids have to build a vessel to drop a raw egg and then explain the reasoning behind their designs, and why their design either failed or worked. It is interesting, educational and enlightening when the kids are third graders, but when adults ........