Exclusive lounges = elitism?

[warmwinds]

Again a false premise. The MDR did not get more crowded because people were removed to dine elsewhere. If you have 2K passengers in the MDR and move 500 to another space carved out of the MDR that does not make it more crowded. I have been on a number of X ships (not the Constellation) and never saw people in Michael’s except for meetings. As for people who think that they are better because they can afford more expensive stuff, the less time spent around them the better.

 

 

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I disagree with this on the M class. The AQ cabins were added on - they were not there in the original build of the ships. So creating Blu I believe did take away from the MDR and make it more crowded.

 

The suite passengers going to Luminae was as you mentioned.

 

In terms of Michael's Club, we never sailed with Perry but on other ships it was almost never full, often mostly empty. We used to like it, but never gave it a thought when it became reserved for suite passengers - we'd pass by and say "remember when..." and not give it another thought.

 

I don't begrudge those who spend a lot of money on their suites their private areas. We've gone through the years starting with insides, to portholes, to balconies to AQ and now our next will be in our very first suite. And those of you with your snide little jokes about curtsying, etc., don't bother me one bit...if you want to be small and begrudge people what they can pay for - whether it comes easy to them or at a cost they are willing to sacrifice for, go right ahead. Living well is the best revenge.

[Silkroad]

And those of you with your snide little jokes about curtsying, etc., don't bother me one bit...if you want to be small and begrudge people what they can pay for - whether it comes easy to them or at a cost they are willing to sacrifice for, go right ahead. Living well is the best revenge.

Oh please! None of us were being snide. We were having fun. You do know that emojis probably indicate the use of humor, right? I’ve sailed in a suite, and I’ll eventually do so again. One of my friends always sails in suites. Why would I denigrate myself or my friend, or anyone else for that matter? And don’t think you’re alone in making choices or sacrifices. Enjoy your suite.

[Host Jazzbeau]

Get rid of the Art Auctions and you'll gain back so much space [not just their permanent storage, display and office space but the takeover of prime lounge space] that anything removed for suite guests will be forgotten. [They recently did this on Azamara, and boy did it add to the spaciousness of the ships!]

[NLH Arizona]

Get rid of the Art Auctions and you'll gain back so much space [not just their permanent storage, display and office space but the takeover of prime lounge space] that anything removed for suite guests will be forgotten. [They recently did this on Azamara, and boy did it add to the spaciousness of the ships!]

Didn't they get rid of them at one time and then brought them back?

[Luvcrusn]

I disagree with this on the M class. The AQ cabins were added on - they were not there in the original build of the ships. So creating Blu I believe did take away from the MDR and make it more crowded.

 

The suite passengers going to Luminae was as you mentioned.

 

In terms of Michael's Club, we never sailed with Perry but on other ships it was almost never full, often mostly empty. We used to like it, but never gave it a thought when it became reserved for suite passengers - we'd pass by and say "remember when..." and not give it another thought.

 

I don't begrudge those who spend a lot of money on their suites their private areas. We've gone through the years starting with insides, to portholes, to balconies to AQ and now our next will be in our very first suite. And those of you with your snide little jokes about curtsying, etc., don't bother me one bit...if you want to be small and begrudge people what they can pay for - whether it comes easy to them or at a cost they are willing to sacrifice for, go right ahead. Living well is the best revenge.

I certainly don't begrudge those who are either Zenith or travel in suites. It was a joke meant to poke those who see the designated lounges as "elitist". If someone has cruised enough to achieve Zenith or paid enough to travel in suites, they are entitled to the extra luxuries for which they've paid and are entitled to enjoy them. My joke was to those who were feeling "deprived" or "less than" that they were being silly, hence my silliness.

[excitedofharpenden]

Yet another thread on this topic? Suites vs non-suites. Class system. Design of Edge suite area. It has all been thoroughly and endlessly discussed on these boards.

So have many other things here if you look in often enough, but sometimes it can bring up some new points worth discussing. Sometimes.

 

Phil

[excitedofharpenden]

Actually the space per passenger in Luminae and Blu is greater than the space per passenger in MD. There is also a higher seat per passenger seating ratio in those venues. The space per passenger in MD is lower today then prior to the implementation of the changes.

 

It is still space that has been removed. Michaels used to be used as a venue for classical trio's and some other events. It was an option that no longer exits.

 

You miss the entire point about first class. The fact that they exist and have additional services, does not negatively impact those that sit in coach. When Celebrity carved out space for enhanced services they did impact what was available to those that did not purchase them. You may say that the impact is trivial, others may not feel the same.

The dining rooms are only part of the story and I think you concentrate on them too much. The outside of the ship, sun loungers, chairs, Promenade Deck etc are the same for everyone. You mention Michael's as an argument because you can't get in there any longer. My observations of Michael's before its transition to a private room was that it was totally underused.

 

Phil

[lisiamc]

Actually they do impact when it comes to Celebrity ships in the M and S classes. The MD was resized with fewer sq feet per passenger when the other dining areas were carved out. The result is a much noisier MD then prior to the changes. Michael's was removed from general public space and made private. The central area of the balcony became reserved for suites. Different people may consider the impact to be of various degree, but there certainly was an impact.

 

People that have started cruising since the changes have taken place, those of us that have been customers of Celebrity long before those changes were made can notice a difference.

 

Crew space on cruise ships is also a finite space, when more personnel is allocated to a given function, the staff available in other areas must be reduced. People quite often comment about how staffing in some areas have been reduced with a drop off in service. Interesting that this has happened during the implementation of enhanced services that have a higher staff to passenger ratio. It is a zero sum game. If you add space to something, you have to take it away somewhere else, same with personnel.

 

Yes! This is the point I’ve been trying to make, but you’ve said it so much better than I was able to. I don’t want to have to pay for a suite to get some of what I used to get for a regular fare. It’s the space in the dining room and the standard of service that I miss.

[Xport]

I disagree with this on the M class. The AQ cabins were added on - they were not there in the original build of the ships. So creating Blu I believe did take away from the MDR and make it more crowded.

 

The suite passengers going to Luminae was as you mentioned.

 

Sorry, but your recollections as to the addition of AquaClass service to the four Millennium Class ships are not entirely accurate...

• The only cabins that were added--all have a maximum occupancy of two--are those on Deck 11... 37 of those are AQ-1 staterooms and 6 of those are interior cabins... Additional potential guests at maximum occupancy = 86 [74 with Blu as primary dining venue; 12 with MDR as primary dining venue]...
  
• Seventy cabins on Deck 9 were converted from Concierge Class service [at least some of which--perhaps all--accommodated more than two guests; all of the current Concierge Class cabins on Millennium Class ships accommodate more than two guests] to AquaClass [AQ-2] service [maximum occupancy of two]...
  
• At double occupancy, ship capacity increased by 86 but realistically--with solos and fewer staterooms accommodating more than two guests--the increase in total passenger load is somewhat less than that...
  
  • At double occupancy, the addition of AquaClass shifted at least 140 guests--the real number is likely a bit higher given that the converted Concierge Class cabins did not have a two guest maximum --from dining in the MDR to Blu...
    
  • At double occupancy, the addition of six interior cabins on Deck 11 added 12 guests to the MDR...
    

There are 40 suites--all with a maximum occupancy of at least two--on each of the Millennium Class ships... The introduction of Luminae, assuming double occupancy in each of those suites, shifted an additional 80 guests [at a minimum; there may be a few solos] from the MDR to the new venue...

 

It seems to me that the distance between tables in the MDR and Blu is roughly comparable... The distance between tables in Luminae is significantly greater...

 

To my mind, the perception of crowding in the MDR may somewhat relate to the "carve out" of space for Blu and Luminae but more relates to the increasing demand for Select Dining [standard in Blu and Luminae]--while maintaining two set-time, traditional seatings in the MDR--in an attempt to meet the preferences of all... Guest dining times are far less predictable than they had been and, per an Officer, apparently the dynamic can vary significantly from cruise to cruise [and from day to day on a single sailing]...

Edited February 21, 2018 by Xport

[laslomas]

Yes! This is the point I’ve been trying to make, but you’ve said it so much better than I was able to. I don’t want to have to pay for a suite to get some of what I used to get for a regular fare. It’s the space in the dining room and the standard of service that I miss.

 

Agree wholeheartedly with this comment. Things have changed over the past 5 years I would say. The whole experience is not what it was. I say 'experience' because that is how it was for me. Something I would look forward to for a year and then I could feel like very special person for 10 or 14 days. I still love my annual cruise, I still book Celebrity and I look forward to it, but it is not quite the same.

 

Just a comment on the MDR. It is definitely more crowded since the dividing up for Luminae. I do not know if it is always fairly full in Luminae or not, maybe someone who eats there can comment. But earlier in this thread there was a comment from someone saying they choose to eat in the MDR sometimes although they have access to Luminae, well that can't help matters. Also someone from Luminae eating in Blu. I assume being in a suite allows you to eat anywhere on board, but surely this impacts on Select dining in MDR, do they also get priority ahead of other diners?

 

But still looking forward to my September sailing :cool::D.

[newcruiser1956]

It's probably not specific to Celebrity, but I'll use them as the example: if you pay for a certain category of room you get access to restaurants or lounges that are off limits to the other passengers.

 

Does this rub anyone else the wrong way?

 

I have no problem with paying more for a room or a meal and getting a better room/meal....but getting the privilege of not having to share a space with your fellow passengers bugs me a little. Am I the only one?

 

 

No, reminds me of Titanic where they had the different classes. Keep the upper class away from the rest of us because we are lower than they are. I feel like it is a bunch of rich snots looking down on the masses. (sorry that is the way it makes me feel)

[MadManOfBethesda]

No, reminds me of Titanic where they had the different classes. Keep the upper class away from the rest of us because we are lower than they are. I feel like it is a bunch of rich snots looking down on the masses. (sorry that is the way it makes me feel)

 

The people in suites are not looking down on you; in fact, they're not spending any time at all even thinking of you. They are just enjoying their cruise. I'm sure that you also believe that first class passengers on planes are rich snots who look down on you, as well as people who drive luxury automobiles.

 

I think a good psychologist can help you get over your jealousy and your feelings of inferiority which I'm sure is not limited to just your envy of passengers who book suites on cruise ships.

[Mynki]

The people in suites are not looking down on you; in fact, they're not spending any time at all even thinking of you. They are just enjoying their cruise. I'm sure that you also believe that first class passengers on planes are rich snots who look down on you, as well as people who drive luxury automobiles.

 

I think a good psychologist can help you get over your jealousy and your feelings of inferiority which I'm sure is not limited to just your envy of passengers who book suites on cruise ships.

 

Respect for saying what everyone else is thinking but didn't want to post.

[63galaxie]

No, reminds me of Titanic where they had the different classes. Keep the upper class away from the rest of us because we are lower than they are. I feel like it is a bunch of rich snots looking down on the masses. (sorry that is the way it makes me feel)

 

 

 

All I can think about is The Howells on “Gilligan’s Isle.” They were elitist, and rich, and they made a point of flaunting it. They felt the other crew members were below them, not in their words so much as in their actions and attitudes.

I’ve only been in two suites, one was an upgrade because of flooding in my room on Celebrity Zenith, the other was a suite on MSC Divinia. I quickly discovered that there were no “Howells” to be found. I learned that those who had wealth were not ostentatious, in fact, no one ever discussed money or privilege. No one cared. We are sailing in an inside Yacht Club cabin on MSC Seaside next month. We’ve saved for two years for this luxury, and we are unapologetic about having our own quiet place to enjoy for a week.

Am I jealous of those who can sail in suites all the time? I’m not. I consider myself lucky enough to be born in a country that provides me the opportunity to earn money to sail at all. It’s all about attitude and outlook. Don’t let the occasional “Howell” make you feel less than others. And try not to feel as though they are taking away your space on a ship. They are paying for it, but you are saving money by choosing not to use the space.

 

 

 

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[Merriem]

No, reminds me of Titanic where they had the different classes. Keep the upper class away from the rest of us because we are lower than they are. I feel like it is a bunch of rich snots looking down on the masses. (sorry that is the way it makes me feel)

I think you need to grow up and this thread closed.

[cheersforbeers]

I expected to be in the minority (my wife thinks I'm crazy :) ) I was just curious by how much. Like I said, I have no problem with getting a better room or better service or a better airline seat by paying more. The part that bothers me is the "nyah nyah...you can't come in" feature.

 

 

Try getting into a gated community without a passcode or key card.

[bigbeergut]

The dining rooms are only part of the story and I think you concentrate on them too much. The outside of the ship, sun loungers, chairs, Promenade Deck etc are the same for everyone. ......

 

Phil

 

You correct the outside of the ship is the much larger issue for new ships and ships that are updated to "replicate the "Edge". These new ship designs are raking away outside open deck areas and reserving them for the Suite classes. This will impact the majority of the passengers and force them into a smaller space.

[Mynki]

You correct the outside of the ship is the much larger issue for new ships and ships that are updated to "replicate the "Edge". These new ship designs are raking away outside open deck areas and reserving them for the Suite classes. This will impact the majority of the passengers and force them into a smaller space.

 

What's the ratio of outdoor space on a sq ft, per pax on M class, S class and non suite class on Edge?

[Bo1953]

You correct the outside of the ship is the much larger issue for new ships and ships that are updated to "replicate the "Edge". These new ship designs are raking away outside open deck areas and reserving them for the Suite classes. This will impact the majority of the passengers and force them into a smaller space.

 

... or another cruise line if bothered by it that much to the exclusion of everything else to do and places to go aboard..

 

bon voyage

[Cruise a holic]

You can book a sky suite. It is a choice. We booked New Years this year the on the edge but found suite pricing too high. Also booked a sky suite on the edge the following year not on New Years as the price worked for us. Both bookings were our choice.

[Bo1953]

No, reminds me of Titanic where they had the different classes. Keep the upper class away from the rest of us because we are lower than they are. I feel like it is a bunch of rich snots looking down on the masses. (sorry that is the way it makes me feel)

 

There are the bigger vessels of RC/NCL/CC with so many passengers that it could be a moot point for you, possibly?

 

I know that Cunard would not fit your style because of the narrowly defined classes.... which many really enjoy.

 

bon voyage

[excitedofharpenden]

You correct the outside of the ship is the much larger issue for new ships and ships that are updated to "replicate the "Edge". These new ship designs are raking away outside open deck areas and reserving them for the Suite classes. This will impact the majority of the passengers and force them into a smaller space.

If the ideas are built into a proper design from the start then it shouldn’t be a problem. Allure of the Seas has a pretty sizeable lounging area reserved for those suite passengers having a gold key card. It didn’t have any impact on the "general population" when I was there. It’s designed in correctly, which is hopefully what will be seen on Edge.

 

Phil

[Lastdance]

Thank you Orator: it is time to "seize the day."

[Lastdance]

Sorry...duplicate!

[PoppyandNana]

MC underwent several transformations from Cigar Bar on the earliest M Class ships to now a private club. Perry was only on Connie and the bottom line is that he really hurt the bottom line. Fans where there for him, not to drink and drink sales were almost non existent. In fact Perry tried to encourage more orders. It is now an income producer in that it allowed Celebrity to offer it as a benefit and raise prices. They make more the fewer drinks they serve. Recently top tier Blue Chip members and high spenders have been added to MC.

 

 

What is a Blue Chip member?