Has there been a rule change for staff speaking their native language in public?

[RDC1]

45 minutes ago, OlsSalt said:

 

This is the hospitality industry - guest sensibilities come first.  If you read CC, you will realize many passengers suffer  various degrees  from this subjective "paranoia" like it or not. So the better guidance is to avoid the possibility by discouraging these non-English language discussions when in passenger ear shot.

let's see on HAl you have passengers from multiple countries, including many where English in not the primary language. so as far as I am concerned, unless they are speaking to an English speaking passenger or addressing a group, they should use whatever language is most efficient.

[OlsSalt]

Just now, RDC1 said:

let's see on HAl you have passengers from multiple countries, including many where English in not the primary language. so as far as I am concerned, unless they are speaking to an English speaking passenger or addressing a group, they should use whatever language is most efficient.

 

Let's go back to the original question ...has there been a rule change? Was there a rule; did it change; are passengers noticing an onboard difference?

 

We have noticed more onboard shouting in native tongue between dining personnel. And it is the shouting that was the change; not necessarily the chosen language. 

[POA1]

20 minutes ago, OlsSalt said:

 

Or they could be saying passengers in 7052 are filthy pigs and I hate cleaning their cabin. Discretion, that is all that is asked. The argument until we learn if in fact there is a "prohibition" is discouraging this activity is not unreasonable.  Nor is it a "cultural assault". It is merely a reasonable term of employment. For positions that interface with guest services. 

 

I'll take my chances. I'm so full of myself that I just assume that they're either saying nice things about me. Or talking about towels.

 

While we're on the subject of language barriers.... I'd like to make a short public service announcement.  The person dishing out your food at the Lido stations may not have the same command of English as a native speaker* does. Talking to them in a louder voice does not, despite what some may think, overcome the linguistic divide.

 

*I realize that the Englanders here don't necessarily view Americans as "native English speakers."

[POA1]

6 minutes ago, OlsSalt said:

Let's go back to the original question ...has there been a rule change? Was there a rule; did it change; are passengers noticing an onboard difference?

 

I don't remember a rule, other than the guest-facing staff is supposed to address guests in English - and I'm not even sure that's a rule. Could be a guideline, or just a recommendation.

 

Different positions require different levels of English mastery and or proficiency. IIRC, the progression for waitstaff is Lido Assistant > Lido Waiter > MDR Assistant > MDR Waiter. There's probably something similar in effect for beverage service as well.

[rafinmd]

I do know that there is such a rule (or at least guideline) on Cunard.  I've seen posters with "standards of conduct" while on galley tours.  I always find that amusing because one position I have always seen on their ships is "International Hostess" whose job is to engage with guests in their own language.  

 

I would doubt that the rule would be enforced on HAL since (1) a crew member may not be sure if a passenger is in earshot or not and (2) for some things conversation among crew members would be far less error prone if they are spoken in the speakers native language.

 

I will bet though that if a passenger speaks a crew member's primary language a few words would be a great positive for everyone concerned.

 

Roy

[Fouremco]

It's hard to believe that in this day and age there are still people who begrudge staff speaking amongst themselves in a language other than their own. Such intolerance saddens me.

[kazu]

To answer the OP's question, I've only been cruising HAL since 1987 but in that time, I've  always heard crew talking amongst themselves in their language.  It doesn't bother me in the least.  In fact, I've used a few words to address them in their language 😉 

 

I see no reason not to allow it.  Think about hotels, shops, museums, whatever in foreign countries, you often hear staff talking to each other in their own native language.

 

 

 

 

[OlsSalt]

6 minutes ago, Fouremco said:

It's hard to believe that in this day and age there are still people who begrudge staff speaking amongst themselves in a language other than their own. Such intolerance saddens me.

 

Maybe if you stick to the argument at hand, you will not be so saddened or outraged by the parameters you just imposed on the discussion. 

[chengkp75]

I can't speak for HAL specifically, but my experience has been that if two crew are interfacing with passengers, and need to clarify or discuss something between themselves regarding the passenger's request, then they are told to speak in English (or whatever the official "working language" of the ship is), but if the conversation between two crew is not in relation to a passenger, i.e. if two of them are discussing something at the linen cart, and a passenger happens to be coming out of a cabin and overhears, then it may be done in whatever language they want to use.

[OlsSalt]

I hope the OP fleshes our his/her original concerns - a rule, a guideline or a recent difference in perceptions?

[whogo]

14 minutes ago, OlsSalt said:

I hope the OP fleshes our his/her original concerns - a rule, a guideline or a recent difference in perceptions?

"Was there a time when the Holland America crew was forbidden to speak their native languages in front of guests?" It's just a walk down memory lane question. No one here remembers such a time, although rafinmd has seen a rule or suggestion mentioned in a standards of conduct poster on Cunard. I am guessing that Holland America had such a rule in the past, maybe in the 60s, 70s, or 80s. There might have been a more general rule against being overheard speaking about anything, passengers don't need to hear about the towels in cabin 7052. Again, I heard the stewards speaking a lot on this cruise, more than I remember. Maybe being exposed to so many Americans has made them louder.

[catl331]

1 hour ago, kazu said:

It doesn't bother me in the least.  In fact, I've used a few words to address them in their language 😉 

Same here. I too have tried using "selamat malam" or "terima kasih" etc ... and then had to stop them when they rattled off sentences that I didn't understand!! 😁

Edited December 3, 2018 by catl331

[Copper10-8]

Wow!  So, the official and mandatory language to be spoken by crew onboard HAL ships in front of, and especially, when dealing with,passengers is English, that has not changed. The vast majority of HAL crew at any time is Indonesian, next up is Filipino, followed by up to 35+ different nationalities from Dutch to British, U.S., Thai, Indian, Canadian, South African, Russian, Ukrainian, Belgian, French, Irish, Mexican, Hungarian, Romanian, Greek, Turkish, German, Portuguese, Argentinian, Swedish, Polish, Croatian, Austrian, Japanese, Chinese, Jamaican, "Trinis" (Trinidad & Tobago), Brazilian, Sri Lankan, Dominican Republic, Chilean, Australian, Kiwi, Serbian, Zimbabwean, etc. etc. and I'm probably forgetting some, apologies to them!

 

Both the ss Nieuw Jakarta basic school (housekeeping, restaurant servers, sailors, etc.) as well as the basic school in the Philippines (beverage, kitchen, guest services, etc.) teach English to their entry-level students and they have to pass a proficiency test in English prior to being send to the ships to start their career with HAL.

 

Having said all that, conversing in one's native language in the course of one's duties, and when not in the vicinity of passengers, does occur. So yes, if a room steward from Denpasar, Bali needs new towels for stateroom 7052 and he asks his assistant from Muntilan, Jawa Tengah, who is making the bed next door, to go get him some extra-fluffy Egyptian cotton bad boys and he does so in their Bahasa language, when not near passengers, that happens. Same with the Filipino guys flipping burgers inside the Dive-In talking about the consistency of the "secret sauce", a Thai Lido supervisor with one of her girls about the need for more bread puddin, a South African spa manager with one of her hairdressers about the latest style in bouffants, etc. I've spoken Dutch with cloggie deck officers relieving me at the gangway, and have greeted Indonesian HK guys with "selamat pagi" when walking by them in the public corridors.  I don't see what the issue is with that within reason but, then again, I've never been called the sharpest pencil in the box; I just don't see the big deal

[Roz]

3 hours ago, OlsSalt said:

 

Not all the crew interfaces with passengers. Narrow the issue to what is at stake. 

 

That was my point.  Not all the crew interfaces with passengers, therefore English may not be a requirement of their jobs.

 

Roz

[kazu]

33 minutes ago, Copper10-8 said:

Wow!  So, the official and mandatory language to be spoken by crew onboard HAL ships in front of, and especially, when dealing with,passengers is English, that has not changed. The vast majority of HAL crew at any time is Indonesian, next up is Filipino, followed by up to 35+ different nationalities from Dutch to British, U.S., Thai, Indian, Canadian, South African, Russian, Ukrainian, Belgian, French, Irish, Mexican, Hungarian, Romanian, Greek, Turkish, German, Portuguese, Argentinian, Swedish, Polish, Croatian, Austrian, Japanese, Chinese, Jamaican, "Trinis" (Trinidad & Tobago), Brazilian, Sri Lankan, Dominican Republic, Chilean, Australian, Kiwi, Serbian, Zimbabwean, etc. etc. and I'm probably forgetting some, apologies to them!

 

Both the ss Nieuw Jakarta basic school (housekeeping, restaurant servers, sailors, etc.) as well as the basic school in the Philippines (beverage, kitchen, guest services, etc.) teach English to their entry-level students and they have to pass a proficiency test in English prior to being send to the ships to start their career with HAL.

 

Having said all that, conversing in one's native language in the course of one's duties, and when not in the vicinity of passengers, does occur. So yes, if a room steward from Denpasar, Bali needs new towels for stateroom 7052 and he asks his assistant from Muntilan, Jawa Tengah, who is making the bed next door, to go get him some extra-fluffy Egyptian cotton bad boys and he does so in their Bahasa language, when not near passengers, that happens. Same with the Filipino guys flipping burgers inside the Dive-In talking about the consistency of the "secret sauce", a Thai Lido supervisor with one of her girls about the need for more bread puddin, a South African spa manager with one of her hairdressers about the latest style in bouffants, etc. I've spoken Dutch with cloggie deck officers relieving me at the gangway, and have greeted Indonesian HK guys with "selamat pagi" when walking by them in the public corridors.  I don't see what the issue is with that within reason but, then again, I've never been called the sharpest pencil in the box; I just don't see the big deal

 

 

Oh I think you pencil is pretty sharp, Copper 😉

 

 

++1

[nutensteve]

Well said Copper.... thanks for your input.

[chengkp75]

14 minutes ago, Roz said:

 

That was my point.  Not all the crew interfaces with passengers, therefore English may not be a requirement of their jobs.

 

Roz

I believe that John will confirm, but since the official, working language of the ship is English, that all crew are required to have some fluency in English to understand safety commands.

[Copper10-8]

4 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

I believe that John will confirm, but since the official, working language of the ship is English, that all crew are required to have some fluency in English to understand safety commands.

 

That is correct, Cheng!

[Roz]

11 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

I believe that John will confirm, but since the official, working language of the ship is English, that all crew are required to have some fluency in English to understand safety commands.

 

Thank for the correction.  I hadn't thought of that.  

 

Roz

[voyageur9]

 

1 hour ago, Copper10-8 said:

Wow! .... I just don't see the big deal

Copper 10-8 is ... absolutely right .... a Betul betul, ... 

Keangkuhan linguistik layak elit imperialis. Turun kuda anda yang tinggi

 

[taxmantoo]

Is it still OK if I speak to my wife in French in the MDR ?   

[POA1]

4 minutes ago, taxmantoo said:

Is it still OK if I speak to my wife in French in the MDR ?   

Absolutely not. You also have to call Crème Brulee "Blow Torch Puddin'." 

 

Speak English or die. 

[RuthC]

17 minutes ago, taxmantoo said:

Is it still OK if I speak to my wife in French in the MDR ?   

Mais Oui.

[GUT2407]

Were they talking in front of you, or somewhere you could here them, there is a difference.

[IllinoisGirl1978]

5 hours ago, POA1 said:

 

I'll take my chances. I'm so full of myself that I just assume that they're either saying nice things about me. Or talking about towels.

 

While we're on the subject of language barriers.... I'd like to make a short public service announcement.  The person dishing out your food at the Lido stations may not have the same command of English as a native speaker* does. Talking to them in a louder voice does not, despite what some may think, overcome the linguistic divide.

 

*I realize that the Englanders here don't necessarily view Americans as "native English speakers."

This reminds me about the time I was on the Oosterdam earlier this year, the gal who was serving bacon was mentioned somewhere on the ship.  I heard the comment and I felt awful.  Customer service is a hard job  and it's way more frustrating when both parties cannot understand each other properly.  

 

 

Edited December 4, 2018 by IllinoisGirl1978