Why Norwegian’s new cruise ships will be much smaller

[AL3XCruise]

It makes sense that NCL would desire to fill this gap sizewise.  Compare NCL to RCI, for instance, which has eight Voyager and Freedom class ships that are similar in size the propose Leonardo class.  NCL already has several smaller ships similar to RCI's Radiance and Vision class, while the Epic, Breakaway, and Breakaway Plus ships are sized close to RCI's Quantum class.  Of course, that leaves NCL without a direct Oasis/Icon counterpart on the books, but for the moment only RCI and MSC are operating or building north of the 200,000GT barrier.

 

My supposition would be that the 140,000 GT ships were a better fit for NCL's current strategy than an Oasis class.  Del Rio has said numerous times revenue growth is his top priority, and multiple smaller ships allow for more flexible deployments than a couple of giants.  In addition, the smaller ships can operate from a wider variety of ports.  This means NCL has more options to develop and refine itineraries that they feel are going demand the highest prices.

 

At the same time, I'd guess 140,000 GT is large enough to provide good economies of scale and give plenty of opportunities to install revenue generating features onboard.  After all, amenities that drive onboard spending (not to mention things that look good in advertising) are a key part of NCL's plans.

 

13 hours ago, RedwingHockeyFan said:

The article talks about reduced size in gross tonnage but not in square feet.  I thought I read before that they were making it lighter by using more composite materials and less steel.

 

Keep in mind gross tonnage refers to volume, not weight.  While it is true that new materials will be used to lighten the ship (particularly the upper superstructure) this does not impact gross tonnage.  Gross tonnage does give a very rough idea of how much space a ship will have, but it is not a perfect metric.  For instance, it includes non passenger spaces like kitchens, crew cabins, and the engine rooms.  Because it looks at volume, something like an atrium can add a lot to gross tonnage without providing much usable space.  In addition, it looks only at enclosed volume; many of the crowding issues tend to be associated with the outer decks. 

 

So, in short, while a ship with a low GT and high passenger count will generally be more crowded than one with a high GT and lower count, there are other factors at play.  Throw in how well designers account for passenger flow, etc, and it becomes more complex still. 

 

That said, GT is still a decent rough guide.  When I see the numbers for the Carnival Mardi Gras (Oasis like passenger capacity on a 180,000GT ship) I do wonder how they are going to make that work!

 

13 hours ago, shof515 said:

from the rendition posted above, it looks similar to the MSC Seaside class ships. you can look at those decks plans to get an idea of how many interior rooms there is back there 

 

Both Seaside and Leonardo are based on Fincantieri's "Project Millie".  In an effort to improve stability, Fincantieri wanted to put a tall, narrow superstructure on top of a wide hull and move some heavy public amenities normally found on the upper decks lower on the ship.  For NCL, the probably means a very large boardwalk, possibly with things like Spce H20, Vibe, or other attractions relocated lower on the ship.  The current rendering doesn't seem to show any pools down there, but that is something else Fincantieri studied as a way to reduce weight on the upper decks.

[Two Wheels Only]

By the time NCL finishes the last Leonardo ship, there will be at least 15 cruise ships that are 200,000GT or higher in service around the world and 32 cruise ships larger than Encore. 

 

1 hour ago, AL3XCruise said:

For NCL, the probably means a very large boardwalk, possibly with things like Spce H20, Vibe, or other attractions relocated lower on the ship.  The current rendering doesn't seem to show any pools down there, but that is something else Fincantieri studied as a way to reduce weight on the upper decks

 

Obviously, things will change from rendering to final product. Even now, the aft-facing infinity pool on the upper deck is seen in some renderings but isn't seen in others. Nobody is sure about where the Haven will be (I'm guessing aft) and things such as the location of the buffet and Spa can differ even within the same class. Everyone is waiting for more info and knowing NCL, I don't expect full details until the first ship is nearly completed....unless FreestyleNovice can, you know.  

Edited December 7, 2019 by Two Wheels Only

[kitty-sail]

On 12/5/2019 at 5:14 PM, smplybcause said:

 

No, nothing official. I think I read in one thread that someone asked on board during a Q&A and an officer said yes. Take my memory and the third-hand account as you will. I'm crossing my fingers it's correct. While it's not the biggest market, I think the solo-travel market is only going to grow and right now NCL is pretty much the only cruise line that does it well. 

I'm not a solo passenger, but if I were, I like the singles set up on NCL very much. The private group lounge area is really nice.

 

[kitty-sail]

On 12/5/2019 at 7:44 PM, Sand and Seas said:

Our favorite NCL ships have been the Escape and now the Bliss.  We love the night-life entertainment, restaurants, and the variety of cabin choices.  We have even enjoyed the tube rides (at our age!).   I don't plan to ride the go-karts on the Encore but I will enjoy the Observation Lounge and all the restaurant choices.     We do still enjoy an occasional cruise on a Jewel class ship, but they are just a little too quiet for this retired couple.

     Retired also and I like both the mega ships and the less-mega ships. They each offer something. I would have trouble on a mega ship without the Haven. 4k is a lot of people all trying to get on the elevator at once or dining in an arena.  I did do the ropes and water slide on the Escape which is my favorite and will try the Encore next year. The mega ships do offer better entertainment and move onboard activities.

     Once upon a time, I sailed on the NCL Crown which had only 500 people. It could go into any port which is a great advantage for distinctive diverse itineraries.   To stay competitive, NCL has to keep the intineraries interesting and new and smaller ships make it easier.

     I thought NCL was looking to put out an adult only ship, smaller & all-inclusive. Maybe it's part of the new 6 ships.  Personally I think 2500 is a nice size. I hope the new ships have pockets of pools, lounge areas, & observation lookouts rather than one giant area for each.    

 

[PelicanBill]

I made this chart to show relative size and capacity with % change to each "smaller" ship.

 

 

Edited December 7, 2019 by PelicanBill

[VideoTech]

I interpret the move as simply trying to fill the void between the older, smaller ships, and the bigger, new ships. Makes good business sense, particularly when you consider that the mega-ships cannot visit smaller ports...one of the big issues the mainstream cruising industry faces is overloading the ports with thousands of passengers, and the inability to really go anywhere new. 

 

Personally, we've always preferred the older, smaller ships of the Jewel class. What would be ideal for us would be ships not much bigger, but with the full on Haven treatment. Yes, I know...that's what Regent Seven Seas does. But we prefer the lower key Haven style - no need to dress up for dinner, a more relaxed atmosphere, and frankly, a lower cost point than the all inclusive Seven Seas model.

 

We'll be looking forward with interest to see how the new class of ships works out.

 

[OceanBlueWaters]

So many new ships (by many Cruise Lines), but still the same Ports?  Are new Ports/Berths being created to accommodate all the ships? Is tendering going to be the "new normal"?

 

Forgive me if this is a stupid question and off-topic...

😉

[mugtech]

6 minutes ago, OceanBlueWaters said:

So many new ships (by many Cruise Lines), but still the same Ports?  Are new Ports/Berths being created to accommodate all the ships? Is tendering going to be the "new normal"?

 

Forgive me if this is a stupid question and off-topic...

😉

Hard to imagine tendering on ships with 5,600 pax.  There are already ports like Boracay in the Philippines refusing ships as large as Quantum class because of the envirnmental problems, must take a 2,200 pax Celebrity ship and still tender.

[Greenpea2]

On 12/5/2019 at 4:52 PM, Sauer-kraut said:

I don't really see 700 fewer passengers as a big drop.   It all depends on what type of open deck space will be on these ships.

Agree, they need to get back (or keep) the free adult sun deck space. I don't cruise that often anymore--the next one is in the Haven on the Bliss. But I can't/won't afford the Haven very often, so my next cruise after that will be on Royal Caribbean. Why? Because of the adult pool/deck area. Free.  

[OceanBlueWaters]

1 hour ago, mugtech said:

Hard to imagine tendering on ships with 5,600 pax.  There are already ports like Boracay in the Philippines refusing ships as large as Quantum class because of the envirnmental problems, must take a 2,200 pax Celebrity ship and still tender.

So where are these "new" Ships going to Port?  Does anyone know?  How does it impact current port congestion?

Thanks 🙂

[Budget Queen]

On 12/6/2019 at 10:58 AM, FLAHAM said:

Do we know if these new, smaller ships will have studio cabins?  If they don't, I will likely not be sailing on them. 

 

Why place such restrictive limits on your choices???    

[FLAHAM]

1 hour ago, Budget Queen said:

 

Why place such restrictive limits on your choices???    

Well, I really enjoy sailing in Studio cabins.  I find they suit me very well, much better than an inside cabin or even an ocean view.  When I sail with my girlfriend, we get a balcony.  When I'm solo, I tend to play a lot of bridge on sea days, so I don't use the balcony that much.  Equally as important, I generally save at least $1,000 by choosing a Studio rather than a balcony (sometimes twice that).  I get two dinners as a Latitudes Platinum member, so I can make do with the beverage "free at sea" choice just fine. 

[smplybcause]

3 hours ago, OceanBlueWaters said:

So where are these "new" Ships going to Port?  Does anyone know?  How does it impact current port congestion?

Thanks 🙂

 

Bliss and Encore initially started in Miami. (Dunno about Escape) Considering they're building a brand new terminal there my guess is all new ships will likely more or less debut there too. If they debut in the winter that more or less guarantees it. 

 

Hard to tell with limited information, but so far they're not striking me as cold weather ships. 

[sunny aurora]

I believe they are expecting a spring 2022 launch for the first Leonardo.  They are expecting booking for that one to start fall 2020.  Now that Encore is launched, more information will start to appear.  

[NutsAboutGolf]

You would have to imagine NCL will be taking a close look at Virgin and will wait and see which of Virgins concepts would make sense to incorporate into the NCL product.

[bostonfred]

Loved everyone of our 30 cruises on multiple lines. We sail itinerary first and some of the best itineraries have the oldest most unreliable ships...we have been on the NCL Star.  we just got off Star Princess and it has same plumbing issues, leaks etc. would be nice to sail these more exotic itineraries on a more modern ship.

we love Oasis class ships when we take kids and grandkids. They do a great job despite their size. However, our big thing would be to create a better connection to the sea. Outdoor areas where you feel you are on the ocean. We have lost that feeling except on our balconies. Bring back walking decks, public areas open to all on upper decks. Outdoor seating for buffets...I know these don’t generate money, but would enhance the cruise experience...😎😎

 

[Joebucks]

They are not doing this because of the personal preferences here about mega ships. It's because only so many itineraries will physically work with them. If you're expecting a fleet of under 2k passengers, you're going to be disappointed.

[Steff79]

2 hours ago, sunny aurora said:

I believe they are expecting a spring 2022 launch for the first Leonardo.  They are expecting booking for that one to start fall 2020.  Now that Encore is launched, more information will start to appear.  

found

http://www.travelweekly.co.uk/articles/348360/norwegian-eyes-lng-powered-ships-after-leonardo-class-launch

 

Leonardo lauches in June 2022, more information to routes in April 2020?, and no LNG ship is planned for Leonardo.

[fstuff1]

On 12/5/2019 at 4:42 PM, GA Dave said:

Why Norwegian’s new cruise ships will be much smaller

 

hm.. could it be smaller because of the design limitations?

ncl is switching to a wide panoramic aft, which supposedly saves 25% in fuel costs :o

 

thus why they are switching their longtime shipyard from Germany for the Leonardo/Ninja Turtle class.

[kitty-sail]

2 hours ago, bostonfred said:

Bring back walking decks, public areas open to all on upper decks. Outdoor seating for buffets...I know these don’t generate money, but would enhance the cruise experience...😎😎

 

I love the Great Outdoors. Perfect spot on back of the ship. It's hard to do this on mega ships because they come out as giant open spaces. With the Leonardo I believe they will try opening up more public areas. 

[PhillyTravelBug]

I’m very excited for this next class of ships.  We sailed the Bliss this year and absolutely loved it, but see no reason in sailing in the Encore. After 3 sailings with NCL, we booked the new Celebrity Apex for next year. Overall, I’m glad NCL aren’t going bigger and excited to see what they can do with this next class.

[fstuff1]

On 12/5/2019 at 4:52 PM, Sauer-kraut said:

I don't really see 700 fewer passengers as a big drop.   It all depends on what type of open deck space will be on these ships.

 

yup, i also dont see much of a difference between 3300 and 4000 passengers

[fstuff1]

On 12/6/2019 at 9:50 AM, RedwingHockeyFan said:

MSC Seaside (?)

Yes, very few interior rooms and they are oriented differently than the others.

 

 

What is room 14211/14204 (red rooms)?

 

Edited August 19, 2020 by fstuff1

[All-ready2cruise]

I think those are Aurea balcony cabin. 

MSC has different categories of perks as well as cabins.  

[bluesea777]

24 minutes ago, fstuff1 said:

 

What is room 14211/14204 (red rooms)?

 

 

These are suites that have whirlpool.

 

cruisedeckplans is your friend.

 

 

Edited August 19, 2020 by bluesea777