Denied boarding

[mayleeman]

A question for the people that think X should be on the hook for making a late decision based on the OP's route through Hong Kong:

 

Can someone show me any information demonstrating how X should have known that cases were showing up implicating possible contagion in HK? Seems to me any information known to X in time to prevent wasted flights might have been as equally available to the OP.

 

Op (or someone) said X has known about this virus for months...Not true, especially the facts that led to airlines cancelling flights, ports closing, cities in China being closed off, and travellers going through airports later turning out to be infected. Most of those things have occurred within the past 2 weeks. So although I think X's decision was drastic, I suspect they did not delay it for their own benefit but instead to try to keep the cruise available as long as possible until more info about the virus suggested the denial decision.

 

As to the force majeure argument, a decision by X to deny boarding based on an arbitrary time period is not a government action requiring the line to deny boarding. I think travel insurance should pay if anyone. As always, taking a trip without it is risky.

[Cruiser_1977]

@mayleeman I think you're misunderstanding. No one is saying X should have known sooner. Just that with the little time X gave passengers to make a decision, this poster was unable to make changes. They had already begun their journey from the US to Singapore (through HK) when the letter was received. Had more notice been provided they could have changed their flight path. However, no one is saying X could have known earlier. Yet denying boarding once their travel had already begun and only offering a refund of dollar for dollar of cruise fare only seems unfair to the passengers.

Edited February 7, 2020 by JennyB1977

[mayleeman]

@JennyB1977 You might have missed this one:

 

"It's not force majeur if a cruise line already knows that there is going to be disruption to a cruise because of ordinary bouts of cold/flu illness.  It's wilful ignoring of that fact and selling people a cruise experience that they know will be compromised due to the protocol mandates currently in operation." 

 

And another one before that one that asserted X "have known about the epidemic for months."

 

I think Celebrity acted when it had reliable information about the lengthy incubation period, and when cases started showing up showing that people were infected who never went to Wuhan but who connected in cities like HK.

 

I should have said that I do understand completely the frustration. I was only referring to whether they should be considered entitled to something.

 

Were I Warren Beatty in "Shampoo" I also would have tried to save sea turtles by charging a penny more for a can of tuna. And were I the head of RCI or Celeb or Princess or Holland, yes, I would try to find a way to get good PR by doing something for everyone in this situation.

 

Eventually, however, and this is what holds back offers in these situations, the CEOs know that their companies risk significant setbacks if those types of offers are always extended.

 

It might be time for cruiselines to offer a form of travel insurance just covering "inconvenience payments" for people who travel and are denied boarding for last minute reasons.

[Cruiser_1977]

@mayleeman I'm with ya. I don't normally argue for this sort of payment. However, how many passengers have this exact case? Meaning were already in transit through HK when the letter was dispersed? Let's say it's 100 (which I think is high). A refund of cruise fare is already being offered. An additional $500 FCC would go a long way towards goodwill and cost X virtually nothing. Even if they go above and beyond and give cash that's only $50,000. That's not even a mosquito bite to them.

Edited February 7, 2020 by JennyB1977

[Joebucks]

On 2/5/2020 at 4:26 PM, CPT Trips said:

To start with, the passenger was not sick and was asymptomatic.

 

Do you think this is how you contain an outbreak?

On 2/4/2020 at 1:28 PM, KnowTheScore said:

and so it begins . . . .

 

the great ping pong of "no it's not our liability it's someone else's" as Coronavirus spreads across the globe, no-one willing to foot the massive bills for loss of revenues that are sure to occur.

Just curious, are you willing to foot the bill? It always seems in these cases that everyone believes the fault and responsibility is on the company. "I shouldn't have been denied" "I shouldn't have been quarantined" "I shouldn't have gotten sick". As we know with every topic ever, you can never make everyone happy, and many people are out there for themselves. It isn't their responsibility to be a check book for an act out of their control.

 

I also think this is a great reminder to revisit our beloved travel insurances. Fairly worthless in this scenario.

 

I feel for the OP. Put in a tough situation. Hopefully, others can learn from it.

[ducklite]

12 minutes ago, Joebucks said:

 

Do you think this is how you contain an outbreak?

 

 

Just curious, are you willing to foot the bill? It always seems in these cases that everyone believes the fault and responsibility is on the company. "I shouldn't have been denied" "I shouldn't have been quarantined" "I shouldn't have gotten sick". As we know with every topic ever, you can never make everyone happy, and many people are out there for themselves. It isn't their responsibility to be a check book for an act out of their control.

 

I also think this is a great reminder to revisit our beloved travel insurances. Fairly worthless in this scenario.

 

I feel for the OP. Put in a tough situation. Hopefully, others can learn from it.

The goodwill alone would have been worth the small expense of reimbursing people in the OP's situation.  Instead they denied boarding to people who had been in Hong Kong. Ironically the ship itself was there on a port stop only a few days prior--meaning it's quite possible that the virus was already present on the ship. There is no logic in this scenario.

[2wheelin]

6 minutes ago, Joebucks said:

 

 

Just curious, are you willing to foot the bill? It always seems in these cases that everyone believes the fault and responsibility is on the company. "I shouldn't have been denied" "I shouldn't have been quarantined" "I shouldn't have gotten sick". As we know with every topic ever, you can never make everyone happy, and many people are out there for themselves. It isn't their responsibility to be a check book for an act out of their control.

 

I also think this is a great reminder to revisit our beloved travel insurances. Fairly worthless in this scenario.

 

I feel for the OP. Put in a tough situation. Hopefully, others can learn from it.

Yes, everyone wants the company to pay, because they are a big corporation and this (one case) would be peanuts to them. Unfortunately in this case, the cruise lines, and other corporations, are needing to make quick decisions based on what might happen in the future to cost them more. If this goes on or expands, corporations could face disastrous financial setbacks. Maybe they will be able to rethink some cases later—-or not.

I’ll certainly get slammed for this but maybe folks could make a big impact if they help everyone to get through this and consider a small loss to many people rather than a disaster for the cruise line. And when I say small loss, I am not talking dollar amounts—I’m talking about this one event compared to the rest of your life. 

[sanger727]

28 minutes ago, ducklite said:

The goodwill alone would have been worth the small expense of reimbursing people in the OP's situation.  Instead they denied boarding to people who had been in Hong Kong. Ironically the ship itself was there on a port stop only a few days prior--meaning it's quite possible that the virus was already present on the ship. There is no logic in this scenario.

 

This exactly.  While I understand the intent, the arbitrariness of this going from "hong kong" is fine to "no, you can't board even if you simply switched planes in hong kong" in 24 hours seems a little ridiculous. The ship was boarding in Singapore. Singapore has more coronovirus cases than hong kong. I think everyone would understand from mainland china. But the idea that they couldn't put 48 or 72 hours between when they announced that and when it took into effect is illogical. Hong Kong wasn't blowing out of proportion with cases compared to the rest of southeast asia where the cruise line was going. At the time this happened, many cruise lines were still operating out of hong kong.

 

In fact there's many more cases in Japan. So, under an equal amount of aribrtariness they could have suddenly said that you couldn't board if you had a layover in Tokyo. Yet, for whatever reason the layover in tokyo is ok in their books, the sailing out of singapore is ok, but the 1 hour layover in hong kong is the one that's going to spread the disease.

Edited February 7, 2020 by sanger727

[CPT Trips]

3 hours ago, Joebucks said:

 

Snip

 

I feel for the OP. Put in a tough situation. Hopefully, others can learn from it.

 

What is the lesson that other cruisers can learn from OPs unfortunate experience?

[Toofarfromthesea]

7 hours ago, ducklite said:

My cruise itinerary was changed and the cruise line fully paid my change fees in the form of a check, even though I booked my airfare with the airline.  No FCC, cash.

 

What caused the change in itinerary?

[klfrodo]

1 hour ago, CPT Trips said:

 

What is the lesson that other cruisers can learn from OPs unfortunate experience?

Have backup plans. Know and understand your insurance plan. Keep abreast of the news and how current events may affect you. You now have the experience of another person should you find yourself in a near similar situation. Just because you were denied boarding doesn't mean your world is crashing down on your head. Make a holiday in Singapore or jump down to Australia.

When life serves you lemons, make lemonade

[ilikeanswers]

5 hours ago, mayleeman said:

And another one before that one that asserted X "have known about the epidemic for months."

 

The news was already reporting this epidemic at the beginning of January. I would assume cruise line would be following the story. If they were concerned about the China region they could have sent an email to booked passengers to recommend changing their flights if they have a layover in HK.

[ducklite]

2 hours ago, Toofarfromthesea said:

 

What caused the change in itinerary?

Dry dock delay.

[Joebucks]

2 hours ago, CPT Trips said:

 

What is the lesson that other cruisers can learn from OPs unfortunate experience?

 

1 hour ago, klfrodo said:

Have backup plans. Know and understand your insurance plan. Keep abreast of the news and how current events may affect you. You now have the experience of another person should you find yourself in a near similar situation. Just because you were denied boarding doesn't mean your world is crashing down on your head. Make a holiday in Singapore or jump down to Australia.

When life serves you lemons, make lemonade

 

Absolutely. I already knew that travel insurance didn't cover everything, but constantly am learning more and more about its exclusions. Many people don't think this way, and think that it is plan that refunds you no matter what inconvenience you experience. There are other things to consider.

 

It's very hard to know and plan for what life can bring. Who honestly prepares for missing your vacation due to a virus outbreak? This is at least something to remember. Maybe the answer is a better travel insurance? Maybe it is having a backup plan? Maybe it's something else? Maybe it's nothing. I'll be honest, it's very rare that sensational news stories scare me into changing my behavior. However, I wouldn't want to lose out on an 8k vacation or even live in fear. I just hope to be better prepared for the challenges life throws and to make the best of it.

[gerryuk]

This has just appeared on the Costa Cruise's website...……….

 

Important information for the protection of our guests’ and crew’s health.

Dear guest, following the heightening of global alert level declared by the World Health Organization, Costa Cruises has further strengthened precautionary measures for its whole fleet, in order to guarantee maximum safety for guests and crew.

If you have traveled to, from or through continental China during the 14 days preceding your embarkation, or if you are having any sickness symptoms or fever higher than 37,8° C (100,4° F),  we will not be able to let on board our ships.

 

Should you need further information, please contact your travel agent or call 0800.3890622

[RocketMan275]

18 hours ago, ducklite said:

The goodwill alone would have been worth the small expense of reimbursing people in the OP's situation.  Instead they denied boarding to people who had been in Hong Kong. Ironically the ship itself was there on a port stop only a few days prior--meaning it's quite possible that the virus was already present on the ship. There is no logic in this scenario.

You really have no idea how many people would have similar claims.

[CPT Trips]

2 hours ago, gerryuk said:

This has just appeared on the Costa Cruise's website...……….

 

Important information for the protection of our guests’ and crew’s health.

Dear guest, following the heightening of global alert level declared by the World Health Organization, Costa Cruises has further strengthened precautionary measures for its whole fleet, in order to guarantee maximum safety for guests and crew.

If you have traveled to, from or through continental China during the 14 days preceding your embarkation, or if you are having any sickness symptoms or fever higher than 37,8° C (100,4° F),  we will not be able to let on board our ships.

 

Should you need further information, please contact your travel agent or call 0800.3890622

Yesterday We received a similar email from Globus about a land tour. I guess it’s becoming n industry norm. 
Neither the quote letter nor my Globus email address refund if one cancels based upon this new policy.

[ducklite]

3 hours ago, RocketMan275 said:

You really have no idea how many people would have similar claims.

Probably less than the bad press being generated.  Several other lines are covering these types of situations.  X is cutting off their not to spite their face.

[Christine13020]

I am going on a cruise to NZ departing from Sydney AZ on 2/29. I booked land tour for the week before and I’m concerned about last minute cancellations due to virus issues. After traveling so far, there is no way I want to turn around and go back home (I’m from NY). I was wondering if it would be possible to book another last minute land tour through AZ. Would it be likely they would take on last minute bookings?

[jwattle]

From Twitter:

CLIA Statement on 2019-Novel Coronavirus Outbreak

WASHINGTON, DC (7 FEB 2020)—Cruise Lines International Association (CLIA), the leading voice of the global cruise industry, issued today the following statement in response to recent developments concerning the 2019-novel coronavirus outbreak and its impact on the global cruise industry.

“The health and safety of cruise passengers and crew is and remains the number one priority of CLIA and its member lines, which make up over 90% of ocean-going cruise capacity worldwide.

Given the evolving nature of the ongoing 2019-novel coronavirus outbreak—and based upon prevailing guidance from global health authorities, including the World Health Organization (WHO)—CLIA Members have adopted the following enhanced protocols for ocean-going guests and crew who have recently traveled from or through China, including Hong Kong and Macau. These enhanced policies, which are in effect as of 7 February 2020, build upon those which were implemented on 31 January 2020 and continue to allow for informed decisions on a case-by-case basis whether a guest or crewmember will be permitted to board.

• CLIA Members are to deny boarding to all persons who have traveled from, visited or transited via airports in China, including Hong Kong and Macau, within 14 days before embarkation. 

• CLIA Members are to deny boarding to all persons who, within 14 days before embarkation, have had close contact with, or helped care for, anyone suspected or diagnosed as having Coronavirus, or who is currently subject to health monitoring for possible exposure to Novel Coronavirus. 

• CLIA Members are to conduct preboarding screening necessary to effectuate these prevention measures. Enhanced screening and initial medical support are to be provided, as needed, to any persons exhibiting symptoms of suspected Novel Coronavirus.

In coordination with cruise lines, medical experts and regulators around the world, CLIA and its member lines will continue to closely monitor for new developments related to the coronavirus and will modify these policies as necessary with the utmost consideration for the health and safety of passengers and crew. Importantly, the cruise industry is one of the most well-equipped and experienced when it comes to managing and monitoring health conditions of those onboard, with outbreak prevention and response measures in place year-round. Furthermore, ships must be fitted with onboard medical facilities, with shipboard medical professionals available around the clock, 24/7, to provide initial medical care in the event of illness and help prevent disease transmission.”

[Elaine5715]

This Coronavirus isn't happening in a vacuum.  Besides the untrustworthy information coming from the Chinese government, ask yourself this,  what if someone in one of your port stops was diagnosed with influenza? Should cruise lines reimburse all guests who opt not to go?  

[ldubs]

We were lucky.  

 

We just returned from a Cruise on Quantum out of Singapore.  Originally we were going to spend five days in Hong Kong prior to boarding in Singapore.  We rebooked our flights some months ago to Singapore instead of Hong Kong because of the protests.  That was before any news of a virus.   

 

Anyway, we also received the email about the Corona precautions just a few days prior to boarding.  We were also advised the Quantum had a Noro outbreak the prior week.   Based on comments from crew, the Quantum was at about 73% passenger capacity during our 5 day cruise. 

 

I am glad that Royal Caribbean made the tough call.  It is obviously important that the virus be contained.   I sympathize with anyone negatively impacted and wish you all well.     

 

I don't know the legal ramifications behind refunds because, I suspect like many, I got my law degree from Google.   

[flyingron]

We just boarded the Azamara Journey in Auckland yesterday.   We "failed" the prescreen because we have a pet bird at home (not that our little parrot has been out of the house, let alone gone near the CV areas).     Anyhow, a woman in a bunny suit came over and took our temperature (twice) and measured our O2 sats and then the cruise line decided we were safe to board.

[ldubs]

2 minutes ago, flyingron said:

We just boarded the Azamara Journey in Auckland yesterday.   We "failed" the prescreen because we have a pet bird at home (not that our little parrot has been out of the house, let alone gone near the CV areas).     Anyhow, a woman in a bunny suit came over and took our temperature (twice) and measured our O2 sats and then the cruise line decided we were safe to board.

 

"A woman in a bunny suit".  

 

I was sure this had a meaning other than what came to mind, so had to look it up.  I had no idea it was a term for a haz mat suit.     

 

We did have our temp checked every time we entered our hotel in Singapore.   But it was just a guy in livery clothes.   

[ducklite]

1 hour ago, Elaine5715 said:

This Coronavirus isn't happening in a vacuum.  Besides the untrustworthy information coming from the Chinese government, ask yourself this,  what if someone in one of your port stops was diagnosed with influenza? Should cruise lines reimburse all guests who opt not to go?  

No but they should make whole those who they arbitrarily decide can't sail with them even though they aren't ill or give them notice in a timely manner that they won't be allowed to board for a random reason made up on the fly.