Should cruise lines allow "no fly" passengers on long/distant cruises?

[Mary229]

7 minutes ago, SteelMagnolia9 said:

If they can’t fly due to medical issues, then no. 

Why?  The cruise lines are pretty clear that they are a hotel and transportation service.  Perhaps cruisers have been expecting too much. 

[iancal]

I have zero sympathy for those who have serious medical issues or cannot fly for whatever reason yet still take cruises.  Anyone who has cruised frequently has seen what appears to be able bodied people airlifted off ships to hospitals in foreign lands.  The ship does not wait for them.  Cannot image what it would be like for an elderly person who was not able to fly home.  

 

I am one of those independent types who believe that you should be responsible for yourself.  So much so that we confine our luggage to only what we can each physically handle.   We find that there is a growing sense of entitlement and arrogance of customers toward all sorts of venders and service providers.  This goes double for some of the whiners, complainers, and rude people that we have encountered on many cruise ships

 

Really, why would people expect HAL to extricate them from a situation that they themselves created?  HAL is not a nursing home though sometimes you do have to wonder.  If I were HAL II would say some like we have arranged for a flight for you.  If you do not take it then good luck to you, you are on your own.

 

 

Edited March 15, 2020 by iancal

[T8NCruise]

On 3/15/2020 at 2:22 PM, iancal said:

I have zero sympathy for those who have serious medical issues or cannot fly for whatever reason yet still take cruises.  Anyone who has cruised frequently has seen what appears to be able bodied people airlifted off ships to hospitals in foreign lands.  The ship does not wait for them.  Cannot image what it would be like for an elderly person who was not able to fly home.  

 

I am one of those independent types who believe that you should be responsible for yourself.  So much so that we confine our luggage to only what we can each physically handle.   We find that there is a growing sense of entitlement and arrogance of customers toward all sorts of venders and service providers.  This goes double for some of the whiners, complainers, and rude people that we have encountered on many cruise ships

 

Really, why would people expect HAL to extricate them from a situation that they themselves created?  HAL is not a nursing home though sometimes you do have to wonder.  If I were HAL II would say some like we have arranged for a flight for you.  If you do not take it then good luck to you, you are on your own.

 

 

I think there are options for cruising closer to home rather than have elderly and infirm passengers going to foreign ports, where who knows what can happen?  I am thinking of the Canada/New England cruises, Alaska, Caribbean, etc.  Lots of choices and not too far away so getting home would be easier.

[iancal]

The cruise lines cannot fix stupid.  The vast majority of cruisers no doubt use common sense.  Can’t see them ‘getting through’ to those who don’t or won’t.

[Mary229]

Why would you call someone stupid?  Why?  We all make our own decisions and some of us can afford to live with our decisions and never expect anyone else to pay for our decisions.  I am not stupid, I pay my way and I never ask anyone else to, never. Never  have, never will.  I am a grown up.

[iancal]

That Is my point.  The cruise lines should not have to police this.  If someone becomes ill they will get put off the ship.  After that it is no longer the cruise lines concern whether the person remains for weeks or months at that location or passes away because he or she cannot be air transported a specialized medical facility within a critical time frame
 

if someone knowingly makes a decision to cruise in this situation the on their head be it.  

 

 

Edited March 17, 2020 by iancal

[Mary229]

I think the principle that you travel at your own risk should always be the norm and apply to everyone no matter their thinking, their race, their age. People expect way too much.    They do restrict pregnant women though so I guess there is precedence.  
 

but my husband is not stupid he just has strong preferences.  We always consider this issue.  Our next cruise is to the Amazon.  The last time we encountered an issue we hired a water taxi which was really the only way to return to civilization- we were on the primitive, upper Amazon.  This time I told him if we get stuck we will get to Manaus and fly 

Edited March 17, 2020 by Mary229

[Stratheden]

For some reason ”taking responsibility for your own actions" has become a thing of the past.  It seems that some people always look for someone to blame for their own stupidity.

 

We stopped cruising about 14 months ago when my husband became ill on our last cruise.  We organised to self disembark at the half way point in a back to back and changed our flight accordingly.  It was not HAL's fault - they couldn't have been nicer though.  We were credited back some of our internet payment, laundry, and spa payments that we had paid in advance.  They didn't have to but they did.

 

i know it is different this time with flights being difficult but if you read all the blogs and postings, it appears to be not that difficult if you keep calm and just work thru it. 

 

[npcl]

I would not be surprised if the cruise lines put a must be able/willing to fly in the future cruise contracts.

[iancal]

At some point you have to stop blaming others for your problems, look in the mirror, buck up, and simply move forward.

[slidergirl]

1 hour ago, iancal said:

At some point you have to stop blaming others for your problems, look in the mirror, buck up, and simply move forward.

 

We have a favorite phrase in my little resort town about dealing with the tourists : they pack everything but leave their common sense at home...

 

I wonder how many cruisers consider getting stranded somewhere not due to a medical reason?   If you can't/won't fly, it does present quite a problem.  You can't expect to be an entitled one, staying on ship until it can move.  If the cruise is cancelled, either fly out or book a condo until another cruise can the you onboard.  It's something that people should think about now, taking a cruise or any vacation that requires common carrier transportation.

[DAllenTCY]

Everyone needs a "Plan B" when traveling.

 

David

 

 

[KirkNC]

The issue goes beyond flying.  What if you have to abandon ship?  Individuals with mobility problems exponentially increase the risk to the crew and fellow passengers.  We are currently on the WC and there is a fairly large group who not only can’t/won’t fly but would have major issues in any significant emergency.

 

My solution is using a process similar to expedition cruises were you need a medical evaluation completed prior to sailing.  Not what the cruise lines want but at least you would have some minimal level of physical fitness.

[cruisemom42]

This was posted on a different thread. Just the type of picture being painted that cruise lines want to avoid -- the helpless senior passengers abandoned by the evil cruise line, far from home:

 

https://www.sun-sentinel.com/coronavirus/fl-bz-coronavirus-stranding-elderly-cruisers-in-australia-20200318-shqkc2sbuneqbla5qklififcpq-story.html?fbclid=IwAR1HoUADEa0CWDvV41n8mHpH8_2jhjGBdcrvBraJrr9iXadMudyLy38B9Bw

 

The letters delivered by HAL to the world cruise passengers contained many good points as to why passengers could not continue on board. Now it seems like HAL have agreed to help with return flights, which I think is a nice gesture, given that arrangements will be difficult due to both the point of disembarkation and also the continuously shifting circumstances of flight cutbacks and border closings.  

 

I understand that most of us couldn't have imagined what happened with coronavirus. But ever since 9/11, I have always traveled with a thought in the back of my mind that there may come a time when I will need to get back to my country immediately (if not sooner), and with an idea and at least some partially-researched possibilities as to how I would do that. If I couldn't -- or wouldn't -- fly, I would not travel somewhere so far away.

 

 

[iancal]

It does not have to be medical.  Several years ago we had to fly home from Bangkok for a family issue.  Life happens. You have to be prepared to deal with it.

[slidergirl]

43 minutes ago, KirkNC said:

The issue goes beyond flying.  What if you have to abandon ship?  Individuals with mobility problems exponentially increase the risk to the crew and fellow passengers.  We are currently on the WC and there is a fairly large group who not only can’t/won’t fly but would have major issues in any significant emergency.

 

My solution is using a process similar to expedition cruises were you need a medical evaluation completed prior to sailing.  Not what the cruise lines want but at least you would have some minimal level of physical fitness.

When I took my Red Cross Senior Lifesaving test waaaaaay back when, for the "in the water rescue" portion, my "victim" was a guy who could have passed for a football linebacker.   I assessed the situation - how big he was, how much he was flailing .  I decided to not go in and try to get him.  I passed the test.  There is a point where you do not put your life in danger, resulting in two drownings.   If I ever were in a situation where I had to abandon a ship or airplane or bus or train, you can be sure that I will the selfish bi!ch who attempts to save myself...

 

If you can't save yourself and must rely on others, is it really worth it?  It is a tad selfish to do something where, if something catastrophic happens, you need to wait for help.   The WC isn't the dire - if they had the money to do a WC, surely they have the resources to wait out the waiting period and try to hitch a ride on another ship on their own...

[shebag]

2 hours ago, KirkNC said:

The issue goes beyond flying.  What if you have to abandon ship?  Individuals with mobility problems exponentially increase the risk to the crew and fellow passengers.  We are currently on the WC and there is a fairly large group who not only can’t/won’t fly but would have major issues in any significant emergency.

 

My solution is using a process similar to expedition cruises were you need a medical evaluation completed prior to sailing.  Not what the cruise lines want but at least you would have some minimal level of physical fitness.

Agreed, i dont know how many times we've gone to the life boat drill and watched as people with scooters or walkers complain about having to be outside for the 30 mins or so it takes for the drill and insist on being allowed to sit inside.  What would they do in a real emergency, they wouldnt be able to get in the lifeboats without being a danger to themselves or others.  I believe the cruise industry should revamp their medical requirements for cruising as well

[marion10]

I am with you. Beyond a certain age- 70? There needs to be a mental status test as well.

[boards]

I have to agree with Shebag, especially now after our own medical problem while on the Noordam.  DW would not be able to climb into lifeboat, that became more evident as we were travelling, changing planes, needing assistance.  I am glad it never came to having leave by lifeboat, but was almost harder on her than me (I had the health problem).   I have to say that our cruising days are over.  

[Level six]

I understand the desire to continue cruising when older, because it is kind of an "easy" vacation if all goes well.  But, when you think about all the problems that can occur and now are occurring, it is a big risk for those who cannot handle even a slight emergency.  

 

If it is a "big" deal just to fly home for any reason if a cruise is halted, ......then serious thought should be given as to the ability to continue to cruise. 

 

Soon, it may not be an option, after this virus has shown what a big risk the cruise lines are taking by having people who are unable/unwilling to even handle a flight home.   I think the cruise lines should try to help those people find flights, etc.  But, their responsibility ends with that.  

[3rdGenCunarder]

17 minutes ago, boards said:

I have to agree with Shebag, especially now after our own medical problem while on the Noordam.  DW would not be able to climb into lifeboat, that became more evident as we were travelling, changing planes, needing assistance.  I am glad it never came to having leave by lifeboat, but was almost harder on her than me (I had the health problem).   I have to say that our cruising days are over.  

 

I'm sorry you've reached the point of no more cruising, but I commend you for realizing it. Too many people are in denial and just assume everything will be fine no matter what happens.

 

 

[Cruising-along]

5 hours ago, marion10 said:

I am with you. Beyond a certain age- 70? There needs to be a mental status test as well.

I have friends who are 70+ and in better physical shape than some 50-year-olds.  I'm all for physical and mental limitations, but I don't think limiting by age is a good idea. 

[iancal]

Mental status??..  No fly status??

 

Anything else to add......weight, height, agility, IQ, disabilities?

 

HAL is a business not a social services agency.

[Floridiana]

About wanting to stay on the ship until she returns to a US port, it's understandable but not feasible. The ship may wind up in a totally different port that is willing to accept her while she is waiting. 

[ontheweb]

2 hours ago, Cruising-along said:

I have friends who are 70+ and in better physical shape than some 50-year-olds.  I'm all for physical and mental limitations, but I don't think limiting by age is a good idea. 

Plus it is not the elderly who you read about who get so drunk that they manage to find a way to go overboard!