I'm sad

[SargassoPirate]

11 hours ago, Petunia1950 said:

I'm sad because the HAL forum on cruisecritic.com used to be the place to go for helpful information.  Now it seems just to be a bunch of Bitter Betties who can't say anything nice, but find lots of things to complain about.  HAL did not create COVID-19 -- in fact no one is certain where it came from -- China?  Europe?  Laboratories?  Wet markets?  And who really cares.  The fact is that we have it, and HAL is dealing with it the best that they can.  News reports are estimating that there are more than 50,000 crew members on ships still trying to get home.  If there are as many passengers -- and probably many, many more -- trying to get a refund, or an FCC, or reschedule, it's going to take time.  It will happen.  And there is no reason to make yourself and other miserable while we're waiting for it.  

 

Just my two cents.

 

Just curious how much is the refund that the OP is waiting for?

[CruiserBruce]

1 hour ago, SargassoPirate said:

 

Just curious how much is the refund that the OP is waiting for?

Well, I am waiting on $16K, and totally agree with the OP's thoughts.

[Krazy Kruizers]

I used to be an active poster on CC -- not anymore.  Too many threads on the same subject and the majority of them are all negative.

[cruisemom42]

14 hours ago, Petunia1950 said:

I'm sad because the HAL forum on cruisecritic.com used to be the place to go for helpful information.  Now it seems just to be a bunch of Bitter Betties who can't say anything nice, but find lots of things to complain about.  HAL did not create COVID-19 -- in fact no one is certain where it came from -- China?  Europe?  Laboratories?  Wet markets?  And who really cares.  The fact is that we have it, and HAL is dealing with it the best that they can.  News reports are estimating that there are more than 50,000 crew members on ships still trying to get home.  If there are as many passengers -- and probably many, many more -- trying to get a refund, or an FCC, or reschedule, it's going to take time.  It will happen.  And there is no reason to make yourself and other miserable while we're waiting for it.  

 

Just my two cents.

 

HAL did not create COVID-19, but HAL did create certain expectations with regard to cancellations and refunds, and they are not being very transparent or forthcoming about when people should expect their money back.

 

In the absence of that communication, we are instead hearing anecdotally, person by person, about how long the refunds are taking (and the amount of time keeps getting longer). Even a writer on the Points Guy site, who was preparing an overview of how long refunds are supposed to take by each cruise lines' own statements, could only say that Carnival is not being specific, and that refunds should take "about 60 days". (Other lines committed more specifically, and some in less time.)

 

This is not sterling communications by Carnival. In the absence of them telling us what to expect, people come here and share their experiences and frustrations -- and learn from each other. Seems to me that this is what Cruise Critic is about -- it's about providing helpful information for the cruiser, not about praising the cruise line.

 

Some later in this thread said they'd be happy to get their money back by year-end. It's hard to imagine who would be happy to let any other company hold their money for more than 6 months.  By contrast, airlines are required to provide a refund (when they cancel your flight) within a week if you paid by credit card -- one week, not more than 6 months!  If they can do it, why not the cruise lines?  (Possibly because cruise lines are not regulated by the US, so they are not subject to any such watch dog legislation.....)

 

At any rate, cruisers are not cruising right now, so there is little to discuss in that department. What we need help with is navigating the refund process and understanding the possible "new normal" of cruising in a post-coronavirus world.

 

Also, what's with the shaming of people who want their hard-earned money back?  You are sympathetic toward a multi-million dollar industry that wants to hold your money with no reliable communication for months on end, but if an individual who may need their money back at this unprecedented time has the nerve to complain, they are told that they can "afford" the loss? 

[ON cruiser]

20 minutes ago, cruisemom42 said:

Also, what's with the shaming of people who want their hard-earned money back?  You are sympathetic toward a multi-million dollar industry that wants to hold your money with no reliable communication for months on end, but if an individual who may need their money back at this unprecedented time has the nerve to complain, they are told that they can "afford" the loss? 

 

CruiseMom42, I agree with all your write above, but especially with the excerpted paragraph. Well said!

[kazu]

29 minutes ago, cruisemom42 said:

By contrast, airlines are required to provide a refund (when they cancel your flight) within a week if you paid by credit card -- one week, not more than 6 months!  If they can do it, why not the cruise lines? 

 

I agree with your post and have excerpted the above as the airlines I am dealing with (the ones that will give refunds) are not repaying in a week.  They are totally backlogged but, they are not U.S, airlines.  One has said 2 - 3 weeks (still waiting) and the other point blank said 60 - 90 days.

It’s not just the cruise lines, other travel industries are affected as well and we are all feeling the effects 😞 

[kazu]

I understand what the OP is saying regarding the negativity and I also understand the angst people have over waiting for refunds.

 

We are all surrounded by negativity right now (the news and covid 19), uncertainty (and not having refunds adds to it), economic uncertainties and worry.

 

I think because of that some of us are more sensitive to the negativity on the boards and because there are no cruises being planned in the immediate future, there is very little positive being posted now other than the Daily report by Rich and the occasional thread on pics or a review.

It’s a difficult time right now for many and all the more reason to try to be kind to each other at home and here on the boards.

[DeeniEncinitas]

7 minutes ago, kazu said:

I understand what the OP is saying regarding the negativity and I also understand the angst people have over waiting for refunds.

 

We are all surrounded by negativity right now (the news and covid 19), uncertainty (and not having refunds adds to it), economic uncertainties and worry.

 

I think because of that some of us are more sensitive to the negativity on the boards and because there are no cruises being planned in the immediate future, there is very little positive being posted now other than the Daily report by Rich and the occasional thread on pics or a review.

It’s a difficult time right now for many and all the more reason to try to be kind to each other at home and here on the boards.

Jacqui,

you were the first person on this board when I first joined that welcomed me! That was a long time ago! What you said here matters and you said it so eloquently!!

The Daily that Rich has done is a wonderful place and that is where you and I go daily! I hope this site can continue On and bring us our dreams of our cruises again! I need hope and so we have our future cruises to look forward too!

So many friends here I have made!  I hope this will not end! 
SMOOTH SAILINGS TO ALL!

PS Jacqui, I hope your healing of your foot is better and I can see you and Jose dancing again on your cruise !

Take care

Denise😊

 

[Live4cruises]

One day last week, when this board presented mostly refund rhetoric, I wondered if all the boards were similarly sad, cranky, whatever you’d like to call it.  So I dropped in on the Royal Caribbean board, where I found an EIGHTY PAGE posting of Covid jokes.  I spent a good half hour laughing out loud.  It was highly therapeutic!

Us?  We aren’t waiting for refunds.  We just keep recycling out reservations a little further out, yearning for the next opportunity to hear “welcome aboard!”  2020 will be a very sad year without a cruise.  At this point, we have 29 days booked for 2021.  Fingers are tightly crossed.

Wishing all a beautiful spring day.

[strickerj]

58 minutes ago, cruisemom42 said:

...

Also, what's with the shaming of people who want their hard-earned money back?  You are sympathetic toward a multi-million dollar industry that wants to hold your money with no reliable communication for months on end, but if an individual who may need their money back at this unprecedented time has the nerve to complain, they are told that they can "afford" the loss? 

Absolutely agreed... FWIW, I can afford to not have my refund right away, but that doesn't mean I don't still want it, or want to know when it's coming. I do need it if I'm going to rebook for next year - I sure don't want to pay for the same trip twice. 🙂

[1ANGELCAT]

14 minutes ago, Live4cruises said:

One day last week, when this board presented mostly refund rhetoric, I wondered if all the boards were similarly sad, cranky, whatever you’d like to call it.  So I dropped in on the Royal Caribbean board, where I found an EIGHTY PAGE posting of Covid jokes.  I spent a good half hour laughing out loud.  It was highly therapeutic!

Us?  We aren’t waiting for refunds.  We just keep recycling out reservations a little further out, yearning for the next opportunity to hear “welcome aboard!”  2020 will be a very sad year without a cruise.  At this point, we have 29 days booked for 2021.  Fingers are tightly crossed.

Wishing all a beautiful spring day.

FYI   The joke page on the Royal forum has been moved to the Floataway Lounge.  Titled just a little humor. 
It’s a great read. Thank 

[Live4cruises]

Thanks, 1Angel - I would have wondered what happened to it!

[1ANGELCAT]

2 minutes ago, Live4cruises said:

Thanks, 1Angel - I would have wondered what happened to it!

You’re welcome

[S1drfl]

The thread To add some humour… has been returned to the Royal Caribbean board.  But to add a little perspective, the RC board has 13 refund/FCC threads running with new posts since yesterday.

[GlennG]

1 hour ago, cruisemom42 said:

 

HAL did not create COVID-19, but HAL did create certain expectations with regard to cancellations and refunds, and they are not being very transparent or forthcoming about when people should expect their money back.

 

In the absence of that communication, we are instead hearing anecdotally, person by person, about how long the refunds are taking (and the amount of time keeps getting longer). Even a writer on the Points Guy site, who was preparing an overview of how long refunds are supposed to take by each cruise lines' own statements, could only say that Carnival is not being specific, and that refunds should take "about 60 days". (Other lines committed more specifically, and some in less time.)

 

This is not sterling communications by Carnival. In the absence of them telling us what to expect, people come here and share their experiences and frustrations -- and learn from each other. Seems to me that this is what Cruise Critic is about -- it's about providing helpful information for the cruiser, not about praising the cruise line.

 

Some later in this thread said they'd be happy to get their money back by year-end. It's hard to imagine who would be happy to let any other company hold their money for more than 6 months.  By contrast, airlines are required to provide a refund (when they cancel your flight) within a week if you paid by credit card -- one week, not more than 6 months!  If they can do it, why not the cruise lines?  (Possibly because cruise lines are not regulated by the US, so they are not subject to any such watch dog legislation.....)

 

At any rate, cruisers are not cruising right now, so there is little to discuss in that department. What we need help with is navigating the refund process and understanding the possible "new normal" of cruising in a post-coronavirus world.

 

Also, what's with the shaming of people who want their hard-earned money back?  You are sympathetic toward a multi-million dollar industry that wants to hold your money with no reliable communication for months on end, but if an individual who may need their money back at this unprecedented time has the nerve to complain, they are told that they can "afford" the loss? 

This is one of the most thoughtful and intelligent responses that I have read with respect to the COVID virus and its impact on the cruise industry.  Thank you, cruisemom42.

 

I have appreciated the sharing of frustrations and disappointment with Holland America's response to those customers who are waiting for reimbursement of their hard-earned money.  On a very pragmatic level, this so-called negative discussion has been a positive experience for me, personally.  Without going into detail, I was prepared to provide a significant deposit to HAL in preparation for a possible cruise in 2021.  From these board discussions, I've learned that providing any type of deposit for a future cruise is not a wise thing to do.  For the current times, cash really is king.

 

Finally, the response of the cruise industry to its contemporary problems has focused my attention on "good corporate citizenship."  The cruise industry is not an example of sterling citizenship.  I understand that it's HAL's job to look out for the share owners of the company,  but corporate citizenship is not enhanced by poor communication (avoidance of monetary issues), tax avoidance, labor law avoidance, and environmental degradation.  Unfortunately, the COVID virus has brought into focus the many shortcomings of good corporate citizenship within the cruise industry.

[Nymich]

4 hours ago, cruisemom42 said:

 

HAL did not create COVID-19, but HAL did create certain expectations with regard to cancellations and refunds, and they are not being very transparent or forthcoming about when people should expect their money back.

 

In the absence of that communication, we are instead hearing anecdotally, person by person, about how long the refunds are taking (and the amount of time keeps getting longer). Even a writer on the Points Guy site, who was preparing an overview of how long refunds are supposed to take by each cruise lines' own statements, could only say that Carnival is not being specific, and that refunds should take "about 60 days". (Other lines committed more specifically, and some in less time.)

 

This is not sterling communications by Carnival. In the absence of them telling us what to expect, people come here and share their experiences and frustrations -- and learn from each other. Seems to me that this is what Cruise Critic is about -- it's about providing helpful information for the cruiser, not about praising the cruise line.

 

Some later in this thread said they'd be happy to get their money back by year-end. It's hard to imagine who would be happy to let any other company hold their money for more than 6 months.  By contrast, airlines are required to provide a refund (when they cancel your flight) within a week if you paid by credit card -- one week, not more than 6 months!  If they can do it, why not the cruise lines?  (Possibly because cruise lines are not regulated by the US, so they are not subject to any such watch dog legislation.....)

 

At any rate, cruisers are not cruising right now, so there is little to discuss in that department. What we need help with is navigating the refund process and understanding the possible "new normal" of cruising in a post-coronavirus world.

 

Also, what's with the shaming of people who want their hard-earned money back?  You are sympathetic toward a multi-million dollar industry that wants to hold your money with no reliable communication for months on end, but if an individual who may need their money back at this unprecedented time has the nerve to complain, they are told that they can "afford" the loss? 

What a spot on post.  Well said!

[rkacruiser]

11 hours ago, Krazy Kruizers said:

I used to be an active poster on CC -- not anymore.

 

KK, you have experience and wisdom that you have unselfishly shared with us on the Forum for a long time.  Your maturity is needed more now than ever.  

[cruiser4801]

The  cruise lines are the ones who have caused the negative posts by the way they have mishandles the refunds that are owed to customers.  

 

If the cruise lines had refunded our money, we would be talking about where we are going on our next cruise.  Instead, we are more convinced than ever that we are not giving these thief cruise lines our money again.

[EscapeFromConnecticut]

On 5/9/2020 at 10:54 PM, Sue from Canada said:

Give HAL a chance.  If you're that tight for money then you shouldn't have booked a cruise(s).  

     Why ever would someone judge individuals while exonerating the multi-billion-dollar corporation?  Particularly under these circumstances: HAL and other

lines still have plenty of staff & bandwith to process new bookings immediately,

but somehow can't get it together to pay back money THEY OWE to their customers for 90 days?

       Operations in Accounts Receivable seem to be working fine, but somehow on the other end .... what? Doris in Accounts Payable called in sick, Timmy's phone died, and Becky can't got a WiFi signal - so tens of thousands of refunds will take 90 days??!!!

      We hear so much carping about "why don't people take personal accountability any more?"  Well it's time to hold HAL (and all of CCL) to that standard. HAL owes this money ... its not some kindness, charity or gift. The money belongs to the customers and always did - it was never HAL's cash.

[DeeDee Groff]

I don't know about you, but I'm still talking about where I am going on my next cruise because I am active on seven HAL roll calls, the latest for for the Grand Africa 2021--and I'm looking forward to all the cruises I've booked.

 

So that neither you nor anyone else mistakes me for "a trust fund baby boomer," I am a retired career federal civil with an accounting degree who has worked for every penny, didn't inherit so much as a penny, and live frugally so I can continue to meet many wonderful people on HAL cruises all the while paying the single supplement for almost every cruise!

 

As to "thief cruise lines," HAL currently has $3450.00 of my money for deposits, and I consider myself fortunate that $75.00 of that total is $25.00 each for three cruise deposits based on a "reduced deposit promotion" HAL offered in mid February.  I am a member of the "get what you pay for club," and in 20 years of cruising with HAL (and Princess and Hebridean), I consider the value I've received for my hard earned dollars ranges between very good and outstanding.  The word "thief" has never entered my mind, not even last week when HAL cancelled two of my cruises with a total of $1200.00 in deposits.

 

For me, the glass is always half full, never half empty!

[MudderBear]

I think many people have responded in a caviler way regarding refunds.  $6,000 is $6000 no matter WHAT financial situation you are in.  I feel bad for HAL, but we don't know the situations of the people waiting for refunds.  Maybe someone needs it to pay their mortgage or rent if they lost their job.  Maybe someone needs it to feed their children if perhaps they lost their job.  Who  is ANYONE to make a judgement as to why people would question the delay in getting back their money.  For me,  I'm just going to bank my refund and use it to pay for another cruise NEXT year.  We should all remember "There But For The Grace Of God Go I".

 

Edited May 11, 2020 by MudderBear
spelling

[Gail & Marty sailing away]

On 5/9/2020 at 9:35 PM, bennybear said:

And heaven help you if you try to offer a possible solution,   People just want to vent.   I get it , we are waiting for money too but let’s try to remain helpful. 

I agree give it some time ..

( some people you can not make them happy} . they wake up every day not being happy and then they go on a cruise and try to spread there unhappiness.

Edited May 11, 2020 by Gail & Marty sailing away

[Himself]

I am frustrated that things are not opening up.  In Illinois the Governor is slow walking any opening up and I think he is politally motivated.  People are dying of cancer and it is being reported as COVIT 19 death.  If the economy is destroyed who can afford to take a cruise? 

[kevingastreich]

The thing is, nobody is cruising right now so the only current cruise related topics to discuss are the negative ones.

[rkacruiser]

1 minute ago, kevingastreich said:

The thing is, nobody is cruising right now so the only current cruise related topics to discuss are the negative ones.

 

There are message boards on CC as well as other Forums where I participate that provide a more pleasant conversation during these times.