The crew need better working and living conditions to stop disease

[Cyrix400]

In the near future - in the contex of the Special Commission of Inquiry  into Ruby Princess fiasco in Sydney - we might get to know much more details/ information about the living conditions  and treatment of sick crew  by Carnival/ Princess.

 

This is because a legal representative acting on behalf of ship workers' union has already  been asking some questions from the Carnival Australian executive  - but could not get the answers as all decisions are made by senior Vice President in USA.  Looks like more questioning of relevant persons (via Skype etc from US) is on the cards by the union,  in this very interesting and revealing inquiry.

[Julia’s Journey’s]

Wondering...
With the cruise lines battling to get staff home around the globe and the billions it must be costing them do you think they will decide to not get staff from such a large selection of countries and just a handful in the future?

This CV19 could have huge impacts going forward.

[INeedAMaiTai]

On 5/12/2020 at 7:50 PM, wolfie11 said:

They're not getting paid.  They don't know when they'll see home and families again.  But, most of them will sign up for another contract because they have an extended family depending on them and they need the money.

Actually, Princess has been great about paying their employees.  They could not promise new contracts at this time, but I personally know a couple of the bar tenders/wait staff that still received payment, at least until recently (I haven't asked them if they have been paid recently).  It is an "at will" job.  Most miss home, but they want to be there and work and support their families.  Most of us that work full time will miss things in our family's life.  But it's a choice.

[trbarton]

On 5/12/2020 at 1:51 PM, Belle said:

I think at one time was 4 to a cabin.  The crew I have talked to say it's 2 to a cabin with

a bathroom in between 2 cabins that the 4 share.  Think there was a sink in the cabin

but not sure.  They say not to bad because they have different hours.

Yes...I have seen videos of the crew quarters & they do share a bathroom btw 2 cabins. They go through a lot to work on a ship. I have seen my staff from my MDR that worked for dinner & then in the morning in the Buffet. Most of us would probably never work under these conditions. When is the last time you met a crew member that was from the US?

[trbarton]

On 5/12/2020 at 2:58 PM, txjim09 said:

Please don't think this is a "go google it" statement but you might want to search Youtube for crew videos.  There are several interesting ones showing cabin tours from all staff levels.  I found the ones from DavidColaDrums pretty entertaining but there are many more.  Have to dig a bit deeper to find videos from the staff positions such as housekeeping but you should still get a good overview.

Thanks for sharing the video. Enjoyable to hear from a staff more so a musician. 
 

Tom😀

[Thrak]

4 hours ago, INeedAMaiTai said:

Most of us that work full time will miss things in our family's life.  But it's a choice.

 

We have a new grandson who was born May 3rd. We haven't been able to see him or our granddaughter. Not sure when we will be able to do so. Bah. This stoooooooooopid virus is really peeving me greatly. No cruising, no camping, no restaurants, no movies, no socializing, no pretty much anything one would want to do. Poop. Wah, wah, wah... Whining does no good and we are still vastly better off than many others in the world.

[npcl]

46 minutes ago, trbarton said:

Yes...I have seen videos of the crew quarters & they do share a bathroom btw 2 cabins. They go through a lot to work on a ship. I have seen my staff from my MDR that worked for dinner & then in the morning in the Buffet. Most of us would probably never work under these conditions. When is the last time you met a crew member that was from the US?

About the same time as I saw an american working in a rice paddy in the Philippines, though I am pretty such that the crew make more money on board and do not work any harder than those at home.

[Aus Traveller]

On 5/13/2020 at 5:44 AM, Loreni said:

My understanding is that COVID-19 was spread on the Diamond by sick crew involved with food prep and delivery.  This may have been true on other ships too.  The crew needs to know that they can take sick days without fear of job loss.  
 

Going forward, some passenger cabins should be converted to crew cabins so the crew don’t need to sleep 4 to a tiny room.  This would reduce disease spread and also increase the crew to passenger ratio so the crew can have civilized and healthy sleep schedules.  My waiter told me she had to sleep in two 4 hour shifts.  I believe her because I couldn’t sleep one night and after a late dinner, I  saw her opening the buffet in the very early morning.  This is not good for her immune system.

 

the cabin stewards need fewer cabins so they can clean them well.
 

will this increase the cost to cruise.  Probably.  But at least cruising will still exist.

Two crew to a cabin. For some of the crew the cabin has its own bathroom (similar to passenger cabins). For stewards, their accommodation is usually two to a cabin with a bathroom shared between them.

 

You mention "My waiter" which I take to mean your waiter in the MDR. They are finished work by around 9.30 or a bit later. The buffet opens with continental breakfast and only a few staff at 6am with a full breakfast with more staff at 7am. You say you saw your waiter there early (most likely 7am). She would have had to get ready for work and have breakfast before that. Of course she didn't have to commute to work😁 so she would have had to get up at 6.15. Unless she wanted to party in the crew bar she could have around 7 hours in bed. She would have many hours off during the day but would be choosing to split her sleep.

 

I don't think anyone has suggested that passenger cabins haven't been cleaned properly or that this is causing the spread of the virus.

 

You mention that "the crew need to know they can take sick days without fear of job loss". Is there a fear of job loss??? I have never seen a coughing or sneezing waiter so I think it is likely they are told to take the day or days off. I know that they have free medical treatment and free medicines. I also know that they MUST immediately report any 'tummy' problems that could possibly be Noro and they have to immediately stop work and return to their cabin. If they do not, it is regarded as a disciplinary offence. This does not indicate a "fear of job loss if they take sick days". Their pay is not reduced for days taken off for health reasons.

 

In my opinion, some waiters and stewards can tell sob stories in the hope of increasing their tip.

Edited May 14, 2020 by Aus Traveller

[Aus Traveller]

On 5/13/2020 at 8:20 AM, MTJSR said:

Once the ships were disembarked of passengers, I was told by a friend in the know, crew were dispersed into passenger cabins to help with onboard distancing. 

 

Also, modern cruise ships are two crew per crew cabin and have been for a long time, as stated by others. 

You are correct. As soon as passengers were disembarked from the Ruby Princess and the cabins cleaned, crew moved into them. There was a comment that there was a ballot for balcony cabins. There are several photos showing crew on the balconies.

[jwattle]

On 5/12/2020 at 2:03 PM, Loreni said:

Perhaps I was misinformed about 4 to cabin.  I hope I was also misinformed about crew having to sleep in two 4 hour shifts...that is so unhealthy.

 

I am concerned if crew felt in was necessary to work in food prep and delivery on the Diamond while they were sick with Covid.  I believe tHat is what the investigators found.  I think the leadership needs to clearly communicate that sick days are OK.

 

On 5/12/2020 at 12:44 PM, Loreni said:

My understanding is that COVID-19 was spread on the Diamond by sick crew involved with food prep and delivery.  This may have been true on other ships too.  The crew needs to know that they can take sick days without fear of job loss.  
 

Going forward, some passenger cabins should be converted to crew cabins so the crew don’t need to sleep 4 to a tiny room.  This would reduce disease spread and also increase the crew to passenger ratio so the crew can have civilized and healthy sleep schedules.  My waiter told me she had to sleep in two 4 hour shifts.  I believe her because I couldn’t sleep one night and after a late dinner, I  saw her opening the buffet in the very early morning.  This is not good for her immune system.

 

the cabin stewards need fewer cabins so they can clean them well.
 

will this increase the cost to cruise.  Probably.  But at least cruising will still exist.

 

On 5/12/2020 at 1:41 PM, Loreni said:

Yes, I think this is true in some cases.  I hope someone who knows will chime in.

No offense, but you started a controversial post with a lot of "my understanding", "I think", and "maybe I was misinformed"...

Unless you know things like this, maybe don't start rumors or misinformation like that...?

[brisalta]

On 5/13/2020 at 6:43 PM, ontheweb said:

But Dr. Fauci has not labeled them as "floating petri dishes". He has saved that label for cruise ships. He has not tried to stop the navy from sailing its ships.

 

Does the CDC have control of the US Navy?

(At least the crew on cruise ships do not sleep in an area with 10 or 20 other people in racks which may also be hot bunked).

 

Neither has he called aircraft "petri dishes" even though community spread CoVID-19 entered the USA via carriers on aircraft long before any indication of ships being involved.

 

 

Edited May 15, 2020 by brisalta

[jennybenny]

4 hours ago, Aus Traveller said:

You mention that "the crew need to know they can take sick days without fear of job loss". Is there a fear of job loss??? I have never seen a coughing or sneezing waiter so I think it is likely they are told to take the day or days off. I know that they have free medical treatment and free medicines. I also know that they MUST immediately report any 'tummy' problems that could possibly be Noro and they have to immediately stop work and return to their cabin. If they do not, it is regarded as a disciplinary offence. This does not indicate a "fear of job loss if they take sick days". Their pay is not reduced for days taken off for health reasons.

 

In my opinion, some waiters and stewards can tell sob stories in the hope of increasing their tip.

You didn’t quote me, but I have first hand experience with a bar tender being sick and not taking time off, they aren’t allowed to really, they get in trouble. I can’t speak to loss of wages, it wasn’t discussed.
I’ve seen it happen more than once, on different cruises. On my last cruise a bar tender was hacking and coughing and I caught whatever it was. We said it could very well have been Covid, but I don’t know. It’s the first time I’ve caught “a cold” from someone on a cruise, but the fear of calling in sick happens. No way their supervisor didn’t realize they were sick on the three experiences I’ve seen. So it’s a corporate culture that perpetuates this. 

[brisalta]

On 5/12/2020 at 2:58 PM, txjim09 said:

Please don't think this is a "go google it" statement but you might want to search Youtube for crew videos.  There are several interesting ones showing cabin tours from all staff levels.  I found the ones from DavidColaDrums pretty entertaining but there are many more.  Have to dig a bit deeper to find videos from the staff positions such as housekeeping but you should still get a good overview.

 

From the bit that I watched of that I noticed that he was on a Celebrity Cruise Line ship. Conditions very from line to line. If you search on the web you will find a number of Princess crew videos that discuss their life and working conditions.

Edited May 15, 2020 by brisalta

[Julia’s Journey’s]

You can binge watch this

https://youtu.be/Rn6Du-De0M8

 

 

 

[Roger88]

I doubt that the crew and other workig personell on these ships live in bad conditions. As far as I am concerned - they are well paid. They have all kinds of insurance policies applied to them. They have a strict hierarchy and etc. Moreover, I never heard (even during this quarantine period) anyone rioting about it. The companies have done everything possible to make their life both aboard and on the shore better. I mean, if there are any crew member or onboard worker who experience difficulties I would like to hear about it. 

[sfaaa]

On 5/12/2020 at 12:44 PM, Loreni said:

 But at least cruising will still exist.

Trust me. Cruising will continue to exist with or without you and your sleep deprived waiter and overworked cabin steward.

[ldubs]

27 minutes ago, Roger88 said:

I doubt that the crew and other workig personell on these ships live in bad conditions. As far as I am concerned - they are well paid. They have all kinds of insurance policies applied to them. They have a strict hierarchy and etc. Moreover, I never heard (even during this quarantine period) anyone rioting about it. The companies have done everything possible to make their life both aboard and on the shore better. I mean, if there are any crew member or onboard worker who experience difficulties I would like to hear about it. 

 

"They have all kinds of insurance policies applied to them. "

 

Not following?  

[ontheweb]

10 hours ago, brisalta said:

 

Does the CDC have control of the US Navy?

(At least the crew on cruise ships do not sleep in an area with 10 or 20 other people in racks which may also be hot bunked).

 

Neither has he called aircraft "petri dishes" even though community spread CoVID-19 entered the USA via carriers on aircraft long before any indication of ships being involved.

 

 

I have no real knowledge but doubt that the CDC has much to do with any of the military.

 

And IIRC, at near the beginning of this Dr. Fauci said that no one over 70 should fly, but he was then forced to take that statement back by the President.

[AF-1]

ontheweb;  funny you mention Dr. Fauci taking back the over 70 flying rule.  President Trump is over 70;  so I am sure that didn't sit well with him; when Fauci said no one over 70.  At least to me that is funny.

[stcroixguy]

Julia’s Journeys, thanks for the link

[wolfie11]

8 hours ago, Roger88 said:

I doubt that the crew and other workig personell on these ships live in bad conditions. As far as I am concerned - they are well paid. They have all kinds of insurance policies applied to them. They have a strict hierarchy and etc. Moreover, I never heard (even during this quarantine period) anyone rioting about it. The companies have done everything possible to make their life both aboard and on the shore better. I mean, if there are any crew member or onboard worker who experience difficulties I would like to hear about it. 

Try this site https://www.cruiselawnews.com

[SharkieRools]

35 minutes ago, wolfie11 said:

Try this site https://www.cruiselawnews.com

Ahhhh yea - the ambulance chaser of cruise lines!

[Roberto256]

On 5/12/2020 at 3:44 PM, Loreni said:

My understanding is that COVID-19 was spread on the Diamond by sick crew involved with food prep and delivery.  This may have been true on other ships too.  The crew needs to know that they can take sick days without fear of job loss.

 

It is my understanding that a single passenger disembarked Diamond, and was a short time later found to have covid-19.

 

... that this passenger was patient zero on Diamond.

 

If passengers bring covid-19 on board, how the crew lives doesn't matter...

 

[Aus Traveller]

1 hour ago, Roberto256 said:

 

It is my understanding that a single passenger disembarked Diamond, and was a short time later found to have covid-19.

 

... that this passenger was patient zero on Diamond.

 

If passengers bring covid-19 on board, how the crew lives doesn't matter...

 

You are right. It was one passenger from Hong Kong who took the virus onto the Diamond and it is likely one unknown passenger took the virus onto the Ruby. Because there were close to 700 passengers infected by the end of the cruise on the Ruby and only literally a couple of crew members with symptoms a couple of days later, I believe it had to start with a passenger or a couple of passengers. 

[Grego]

On 5/12/2020 at 6:58 PM, SharkieRools said:

 

Perfect.  That was my first reaction.