Cruise Line Industry being treat as the Proverbial Step Child??

[Pineapple Princess]

Airlines allowed to fly with the middle row occupied, bars open, theaters open, beaches open and very crowded this weekend..... So why is the cruise industry treated as if they are making no attempt to protect passengers?  Would I sail now?  No, but I think that should be my choice not the choice of the CDC....

[Mears Family]

44 minutes ago, Pineapple Princess said:

Airlines allowed to fly with the middle row occupied, bars open, theaters open, beaches open and very crowded this weekend..... So why is the cruise industry treated as if they are making no attempt to protect passengers?  Would I sail now?  No, but I think that should be my choice not the choice of the CDC....

 

Not all jurisdictions are "open" in the fashion that you have described.  From Texas or elsewhere in the United States, cruise ships must visit a foreign port as per the Passenger Vessel Services Act.  The cruise industry must confirm to the regulations governing the foreign port.   The CDC has no jurisdiction in those ports.  United States executive orders stating that businesses must be allowed to open also have no jurisdiction in those ports.   Albeit, as recent history has shown not following CDC regulations makes it extremely difficult to disembark in the United States.  I cannot answer your question, but the relevance of the preamble is weak.

Edited May 23, 2020 by Mears Family
change tone

[joeyancho]

Because you couldn't design a more perfect vector for disease transmission than a cruise ship.  And when 5000 people show up at your port,  that may have been exposed to the virus, it creates a huge problem. 

[cruzsnooze]

So if the lifeguard at your beach says you can't go into the water right now due to a sever rip tide shouldn't it be your choice if you want to swim in a rip tide? Some people need to be protected from themselves.

[memoak]

Here in Portland Oregon no bars dine in restaurants barbers or theatre are open be patient.  You cannot distance from others on a cruise  ship stay apart and stay safe

[ontheweb]

1 hour ago, joeyancho said:

Because you couldn't design a more perfect vector for disease transmission than a cruise ship.  And when 5000 people show up at your port,  that may have been exposed to the virus, it creates a huge problem. 

I would argue that a nursing home especially when your governor says that coronavirus patients must be kept at the nursing home so as not to overwhelm hospitals is a more perfect vector. (And the hospitals were so overwhelmed that he begged for and got a navy hospital ship; but it left after a few weeks as it turned out it was not needed as the governor had so over estimated what would be needed.)

 

And meat packing plants seem to be acting as perfect vectors for the virus.

 

And would cruise ships have had as poor a record if ports could have taken passengers to hospitals?

[Mike45LC]

1 hour ago, cruzsnooze said:

So if the lifeguard at your beach says you can't go into the water right now due to a sever rip tide shouldn't it be your choice if you want to swim in a rip tide? Some people need to be protected from themselves.

Yes, if the lifeguard says there is a riptide, but I wish to go in, that is my choice.  I have not surrendered my right to make stupid decisions to some "lifeguard."  Nor to the Governor.

[memoak]

5 minutes ago, Mike45LC said:

Yes, if the lifeguard says there is a riptide, but I wish to go in, that is my choice.  I have not surrendered my right to make stupid decisions to some "lifeguard."  Nor to the Governor.

Then the lifeguard should let you drown and not risk their life

[chipmaster]

3 hours ago, Pineapple Princess said:

Airlines allowed to fly with the middle row occupied, bars open, theaters open, beaches open and very crowded this weekend..... So why is the cruise industry treated as if they are making no attempt to protect passengers?  Would I sail now?  No, but I think that should be my choice not the choice of the CDC....

 

You could argue there is indeed a double standard, but for airlines there isn't many international and quarantines are required.

 

When you put a few thousand people mingling for a few days to weeks the petri dish will almost certainly insure that if anyone has a disease getting on they will  give it to a few more.       You can argue the same for bar, airlines, etc. except duration, size and proximity are far less.   Cruise is really special intimate environment that last for days to weeks unlike most others that are hours at most.   

 

When sports venues allow spectators is when cruises likely should be able to sail, about the same in terms of risk, IMHO   

 

 

From a fact that people haven't acted rationally across the board no different with this one, LOL

[pms4104]

3 hours ago, Pineapple Princess said:

Airlines allowed to fly with the middle row occupied, bars open, theaters open, beaches open and very crowded this weekend..... So why is the cruise industry treated as if they are making no attempt to protect passengers?  Would I sail now?  No, but I think that should be my choice not the choice of the CDC....

The primary reason , if not the only one, that the CDC has anything to say about this ... is because these foreign-flagged vessels owned and operated by foreign-based corporations are sailing in and ou5 of U.S. ports and waters.

 

Surely, should these companies change their itineraries and not visit the U.S. at all ... the CDC would have nothing to say.

 

This is a cruiseline company decision.

[rkacruiser]

#1:  In comparison to US airlines, all but one ocean sailing cruise ships are foreign flagged.  Not much interest apparently, even at the highest possible level of the United States Government, to throw them a lifeline.  (Reportedly, the CCL Chairman attempted to do so as a result of his "friendship" with a certain person who lives in a White House.)  

 

#2:  My current opinion is that one has to decide for themselves if going out to dinner, getting a haircut, booking and sailing (when its possible to do so) on a cruise, or flying on a plane is worth the risk of contracting the virus.  

 

In my opinion, there is too much about this virus that is unknown.  My state's Governor has been excellent in helping to flattening the curve of infections/deaths.  Now, that effective restrictions are being lifted, I am concerned that, what I think is a more political decision than one based on data and common sense, what will be the result?  

 

We will soon know.

[cruzsnooze]

5 hours ago, Mike45LC said:

Yes, if the lifeguard says there is a riptide, but I wish to go in, that is my choice.  I have not surrendered my right to make stupid decisions to some "lifeguard."  Nor to the Governor.

In the case of the virus it's not only yourself but others you bring the virus to with your right to make stupid decisions. The old cliche comes to mind "one mans freedom ends where another mans begins. " Remember Typhoid Mary? 

 

[donaldsc]

8 hours ago, memoak said:

Then the lifeguard should let you drown and not risk their life

 

I was going to say the same thing.  People should be entitled to do stupid things as long as they harm only themselves or they don't expect to be rescued.  I get really annoyed when I see emergency responders ricking their own lives and going out to rescue people who are lost or hurt in places that they were not supposed to be in.  

 

DON

[skynight]

15 hours ago, Pineapple Princess said:

Airlines allowed to fly with the middle row occupied, bars open, theaters open, beaches open and very crowded this weekend..... So why is the cruise industry treated as if they are making no attempt to protect passengers?  Would I sail now?  No, but I think that should be my choice not the choice of the CDC....

Ships will not return to normal until there is a working vaccine. Cruise lines probably would have a difficult time filling their ships and operating any cruise without losing money. What happens when a ship gets just a few cases on board? They go into quarantine all over again. Passengers stuck on board in their cabins for weeks. Is this the experience anyone would risk?

Where we live bars, and theaters are not open. Everything that is open is restricted to social distancing, masks, hand sanitizing, minimum touch points, limited numbers of people and more. On airlines a passenger probably has the possibility of one or just a few exposures during a flight. With proper protection and spaced seating (airlines are not crowded) one can reduce the probability of becoming infected. On a cruise ship you have hundreds of possible exposures each day. There is no possibility of social distancing. Many people that are positive for COVID-19 show no symptoms but can infect others. How difficult would it be to hire a crew with possible day after day after day exposure? Ports, not just CDC U.S. ports, are just not allowing cruise ships to dock. Example, the Coral is currently docked at Curacao with 191 crew on board. They are under a 14 day quarantine. No one on or off the ship. Where would the cruise go and return? It's not just the CDC it's pretty much all countries all around the world. It isn't wise to sail now. Bottom line it's not your choice vs. the CDC. It's your choice vs. the ability of cruise ships to even operate and cover the operating expense as well port and government authorities in just about every port worldwide.  

[AF-1]

I agree with skynight;  right now it would be a bummer for someone to go on a seven day cruise; then get quarantine for another 14 days.   That would be bad. 

[susancruzs]

It is a very complicated situation, and generalizations don't cover it.  Every state has different rules, when you talk world travel, different countries, it isn't just about the CDC and one persons choice, not at all.  

 

I'm not going to get into the "commending the leadership" through this, for what?  I could sound off but we have been told, no politics.  

 

News this a.m. reporting about Britain and their rules, quarantine for travelers, etc., it isn't just about cruise lines saying they have a plan for protecting passengers.   Do they and does anyone really know the answers here?  Will it return, worse than now, is there going to be a spike as places open up for business?

Edited May 24, 2020 by susancruzs

[PrincessLuver]

8 minutes ago, susancruzs said:

It is a very complicated situation, and generalizations don't cover it.  Every state has different rules, when you talk world travel, different countries, it isn't just about the CDC and one persons choice, not at all.  

 

I'm not going to get into the "commending the leadership" through this, for what?  I could sound off but we have been told, no politics.  

 

News this a.m. reporting about Britain and their rules, quarantine for travelers, etc., it isn't just about cruise lines saying they have a plan for protecting passengers.   Do they and does anyone really know the answers here?  Will it return, worse than now, is there going to be a spike as places open up for business?

 

Totally agree and we are probably incapable of seeing how this really plays out for our own situation and the world....cruising is probably the last thing on most people's minds at this time....with so many out of work and so much suffering from those that have the disease and for their families and loved ones too!!

Edited May 24, 2020 by PrincessLuver

[hobbyfarmer2]

18 hours ago, Pineapple Princess said:

Airlines allowed to fly with the middle row occupied, bars open, theaters open, beaches open and very crowded this weekend..... So why is the cruise industry treated as if they are making no attempt to protect passengers?  Would I sail now?  No, but I think that should be my choice not the choice of the CDC....

Perhaps it should be your choice to cruise but countries also have the choice of denying docking to cruise vessels in the interest of public safety.

[PrincessLuver]

20 hours ago, Pineapple Princess said:

Airlines allowed to fly with the middle row occupied, bars open, theaters open, beaches open and very crowded this weekend..... So why is the cruise industry treated as if they are making no attempt to protect passengers?  Would I sail now?  No, but I think that should be my choice not the choice of the CDC....

 

Cruise lines have been canceling their cruises way past the date the CDC has suggested so I am sure they are not ready to go back to business as usual yet.  

 

They are the ones, more then any other travel companies, that have had first hand knowledge of how COVID-19 can wreck havoc on a ship and then the added costs of quarantining all those passengers and cruises.  

 

I am sure passenger safety, the market and available ports will be the determining factor when ships head back into the water.  

[rkacruiser]

12 hours ago, donaldsc said:

 

I was going to say the same thing.  People should be entitled to do stupid things as long as they harm only themselves or they don't expect to be rescued.  I get really annoyed when I see emergency responders ricking their own lives and going out to rescue people who are lost or hurt in places that they were not supposed to be in.  

 

DON

 

Respectfully, I disagree.  My life is worth just as much as another person's life who finds he/she is in a perilous situation.  People make poor choices and bad decisions at times.  That does not make them less worthy of living.  

[npcl]

On 5/23/2020 at 12:54 PM, Pineapple Princess said:

Airlines allowed to fly with the middle row occupied, bars open, theaters open, beaches open and very crowded this weekend..... So why is the cruise industry treated as if they are making no attempt to protect passengers?  Would I sail now?  No, but I think that should be my choice not the choice of the CDC....

Well they could leave the jurisdiction of the CDC and go sail cruises out of one of the country they are registered in such as the Bahama or Bermuda.  Oh thats right those countries have totally closed down their ports.  Grand Cayman, No.  St Lucia - No.  Canada - No, Mexico - No.  Argentina - No, Australia - No, Uk - No, Japan - No, Singapore - No.

 

I cannot think of any country that is allowing cruises at this time for the large cruise ships.  

Edited May 24, 2020 by npcl

[Daniel A]

45 minutes ago, npcl said:

Well they could leave the jurisdiction of the CDC and go sail cruises out of one of the country they are registered in such as the Bahama or Bermuda.  Oh thats right those countries have totally closed down their ports.  Grand Cayman, No.  St Lucia - No.  Canada - No, Mexico - No.  Argentina - No, Australia - No, Uk - No, Japan - No, Singapore - No.

 

I cannot think of any country that is allowing cruises at this time for the large cruise ships.  

Vatican City?

[npcl]

15 minutes ago, Daniel A said:

Vatican City?

They might but they are land locked and a cruise ship won't fit up the river😀

 

[PrincessLuver]

13 hours ago, skynight said:

Ships will not return to normal until there is a working vaccine. Cruise lines probably would have a difficult time filling their ships and operating any cruise without losing money. What happens when a ship gets just a few cases on board? They go into quarantine all over again. Passengers stuck on board in their cabins for weeks. Is this the experience anyone would risk?

Where we live bars, and theaters are not open. Everything that is open is restricted to social distancing, masks, hand sanitizing, minimum touch points, limited numbers of people and more. On airlines a passenger probably has the possibility of one or just a few exposures during a flight. With proper protection and spaced seating (airlines are not crowded) one can reduce the probability of becoming infected. On a cruise ship you have hundreds of possible exposures each day. There is no possibility of social distancing. Many people that are positive for COVID-19 show no symptoms but can infect others. How difficult would it be to hire a crew with possible day after day after day exposure? Ports, not just CDC U.S. ports, are just not allowing cruise ships to dock. Example, the Coral is currently docked at Curacao with 191 crew on board. They are under a 14 day quarantine. No one on or off the ship. Where would the cruise go and return? It's not just the CDC it's pretty much all countries all around the world. It isn't wise to sail now. Bottom line it's not your choice vs. the CDC. It's your choice vs. the ability of cruise ships to even operate and cover the operating expense as well port and government authorities in just about every port worldwide.  

The other reason we will have no problem flying is that the are under Federal Laws and take no nonsense off passengers...in some ways cruise lines are lawless...

 

[cruzsnooze]

I would like to see the ship have a quarantine block of rooms with a NEGATIVE air flow to prevent cross contamination.  If the screening tests are readily available and fast I personally would be happy to take it along with all embarking passengers