Canada issuing moratorium on cruise ships until October 31st, 2020

[kazu]

44 minutes ago, DaveSJ711 said:

As for The Globe and Mail, I've read the paper throughout Canada (I've been to every province).  I thought its ubiquity and circulation made it a national paper.  Mea culpa

 

Not sure when the last time you were in the Maritimes but...that newspaper does not even come to the Atlantic Provinces any more in newspaper form.  Unless you choose to subscribe to it on line, it’s not available in 4 provinces anymore in newspaper format.  Hasn’t been available for a couple of years.  Guess we weren’t worth delivering to (and yes, we used to get it delivered daily).

 

Pick and choose your opinion posts all you want.  That is what they are - opinions.  Not news.  I do live in Canada and I know what we are like here 😉 

 

[ABoatNerd]

Most Canadians are docile and are obedient in taking direction from their various levels of government without question, per socialist style. Hence general acceptance of government running all liquor sales and health care.

 

The Globe and Mail and National Post co-share national newspaper distribution.

 

Low population levels in many provinces and Canada's large geographical size make it not financially feasible to physically distribute a national newspaper.

 

The CTV national news social media platform had an article last week saying that RV's are the new cruise ships and that RV sales are booming across Canada. 

 

 

 

 

[iancal]

It is my understanding that RV dealers here in Alberta are VERY busy.  Both sales, especially pre summer service.

[billbunger]

31 minutes ago, ABoatNerd said:

Most Canadians are docile and are obedient in taking direction from their various levels of government without question, per socialist style. 

 

 

 

 

Only if you live in Ontario or Quebec.

[ABoatNerd]

You are right on big time, I would add in B.C. as well.

 

For the cruise lovers here, the Oct 31 canadian cruise ship ban is being questioned. Our prime minister was seen yesterday in a big protest crowd with many strangers, many not wearing masks. There was was no social distancing and much close contact.

 

Media and commentors wonder then why cruise ships cant come to canada if this behavior is deemed acceptable by the canadian prime minister. His participation in a loud crowd event is not dissimilar to large crowds in Quebec City during autumn cruise season. My TA cc'd me on an email she sent to the prime ministers office asking this question.

[Dismomx5]

29 minutes ago, ABoatNerd said:

Most Canadians are docile and are obedient in taking direction from their various levels of government without question, per socialist style. Hence general acceptance of government running all liquor sales and health care.

 

The Globe and Mail and National Post co-share national newspaper distribution.

 

Low population levels in many provinces and Canada's large geographical size make it not financially feasible to physically distribute a national newspaper.

 

The CTV national news social media platform had an article last week saying that RV's are the new cruise ships and that RV sales are booming across Canada.

That and above ground swimming pools! Not a one to be found in most cities, I understand.

 

I'll take our social democracy. Your description lends itself to a Stepford Wives visual-lockstep and doing as one is told. And that is just not true. Canadians let their wants be known and vote in parties that support their values, and if their needs are not met, or the politicians prove that they can't be trusted, they send that party packing. I always liken it to the fact that, as a nation, Canadians generally like to make sure that our people are taken care of. And that includes health care. As a group, we like our healthcare and have no desire for privatization. Liquor is a different matter. We like the money that the government run liquor stores bring in.

[d9704011]

7 hours ago, ABoatNerd said:

You are right on big time, I would add in B.C. as well.

 

For the cruise lovers here, the Oct 31 canadian cruise ship ban is being questioned. Our prime minister was seen yesterday in a big protest crowd with many strangers, many not wearing masks. There was was no social distancing and much close contact.

 

Media and commentors wonder then why cruise ships cant come to canada if this behavior is deemed acceptable by the canadian prime minister. His participation in a loud crowd event is not dissimilar to large crowds in Quebec City during autumn cruise season. My TA cc'd me on an email she sent to the prime ministers office asking this question.

Evidently you’ve placed your hands on a large quantity of that legalized recreational marijuana that’s on sale at every mom and pop corner store.  Cruising season is ready to go on the Rideau Canal now.  I don’t suppose you could post a copy of that e-mail your TA sent to the PMO?  All of us could send our own and the deluge would certainly convince the PM to let us start moving ahead as soon as possible on an ocean cruise season.

 

[ABoatNerd]

Would be great if the cruise industry could move ahead, but many barriers exist. No amount of letters to the PMO would change a thing, as optics, and only optics, are important to him.

 

In the end, people are spending portions of their vacation horde on non travel, like RV's, above ground pools mentioned earlier, and I am the very proud owner of a shiny new Porsche.  High end luxury SUV's are selling well, as evidenced by the new vehicles two of my friends have recently purchased.  They used to take cruises but are planning north american road trips together with high end land tours.

 

Once people find non cruise activities like driving trips for example - it will likely mean less cruise bookings in the future (me for sure).

 

This is a potential big impact on the cruise industry that well exceeds the ban on ports in canada or elsewhere.

[Lido deck main]

7 hours ago, ABoatNerd said:

Would be great if the cruise industry could move ahead, but many barriers exist. No amount of letters to the PMO would change a thing, as optics, and only optics, are important to him.

 

In the end, people are spending portions of their vacation horde on non travel, like RV's, above ground pools mentioned earlier, and I am the very proud owner of a shiny new Porsche.  High end luxury SUV's are selling well, as evidenced by the new vehicles two of my friends have recently purchased.  They used to take cruises but are planning north american road trips together with high end land tours.

 

Once people find non cruise activities like driving trips for example - it will likely mean less cruise bookings in the future (me for sure).

 

This is a potential big impact on the cruise industry that well exceeds the ban on ports in canada or elsewhere.

The Prime Minister isn't the only one who is concerned about Covid, it is not about Optics.  I believe you are from Ontario, one of the worst hit provinces.  Your own premier, a conservative Doug Ford,. has extended the state of emergency in your province.  Also, not true about the potential impact on cruise industry. When a vaccine is out, we'll be back.  In the meantime, yes spend your travel money in your own province, help the businesses there.  You certainly won't be doing North American road trips.  

 

Ontario premier asking to extend province's state of emergency

Sean DavidsonMulti-Platform Writer, CTV News Toronto

@SeanDavidson_ Contact

Published Monday, June 1, 2020 1:18PM EDTLast Updated Monday, June 1, 2020 4:50PM EDT

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Volume 90%

 

 

 

Ford extending emergency measures to June 30

 

 

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Premier Ford will seek an extension of the province's emergency measures for another month.

 

 

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TORONTO -- Ontario Premier Doug Ford wants the province's state of emergency to be extended another 28 days.

The state of emergency, which was set to expire on June 2, will be extended until June 30 if the motion is passed on Tuesday at Queen's Park.

The province declared a state of emergency on March 17 as the number of COVID-19 cases in Ontario continued to climb.

 

Full coverage at CTVNews.ca/Coronavirus

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Get The COVID-19 Brief sent to your inbox

Included under the province's state of emergency are a number of emergency orders. The emergency orders include restrictions on social gathering limits. 

On Monday, Ford said his government is "aggressively" working on a plan to continue reopening the economy.

"If numbers go down, we'll be looking at other stages," Ford said. "I want to get the economy going but we have to do it safely."

Ontario entered the first phase of the reopening plan on May 19. A number of businesses, including those with a street-front enterance were allowed to reopen.

The province was hoping to make an announcement on allowing larger social gatherings last month but said last week they delayed it due to an uptick in cases. 

Meanwhile, Health Minister Christine Elliott said the province "still needs to go some distance" before moving to stage two of the reopening plan.

"We need to take a careful and measured approached based on four factors: the number of new cases needs to go down, make sure that we have sufficient capacity in our hospitals, make sure we're doing adequate testing and we need to do contact tracing with public health units."

On March 17, when the state of emergency began, there were 190 cases of COVID-19 in the province. On Monday, the province recorded another spike in COVID-19 cases. More than 400 new infections were reported, bringing the provincial total to 28,263.

[fatcat04]

One encouraging note from the WHO..

Asymptomatic Transmission Is ‘Very Rare’: WHO (3:23 p.m. NY)

Transmission of the coronavirus by people who aren’t showing symptoms is “very rare,” the World Health Organization said Monday, contradicting speculation by public health officials and researchers that the disease was being spread by people who weren’t showing signs of illness.

 

That's good news.

 

 

Edited June 8, 2020 by fatcat04

[rkacruiser]

8 minutes ago, fatcat04 said:

One encouraging note from the WHO..

Asymptomatic Transmission Is ‘Very Rare’: WHO (3:23 p.m. NY)

Transmission of the coronavirus by people who aren’t showing symptoms is “very rare,” the World Health Organization said Monday, contradicting speculation by public health officials and researchers that the disease was being spread by people who weren’t showing signs of illness.

 

That's good news.

 

 

 

That is good news, indeed.  Maybe I am not going to have to spend the rest of my life wearing a mask!

[KirkNC]

2 hours ago, fatcat04 said:

One encouraging note from the WHO..

Asymptomatic Transmission Is ‘Very Rare’: WHO (3:23 p.m. NY)

Transmission of the coronavirus by people who aren’t showing symptoms is “very rare,” the World Health Organization said Monday, contradicting speculation by public health officials and researchers that the disease was being spread by people who weren’t showing signs of illness.

 

That's good news.

 

 

This completely contradicts earlier statements.  I hope they are correct as that would help keep it off of ships.

 

https://hub.jhu.edu/2020/05/12/gigi-gronvall-asymptomatic-spread-covid-19-immunity-passports/

In Iceland, where a broad testing effort resulted in 5% of the country's population being tested for COVID-19, a lab study suggests that as many as 50% of people who have the disease show no symptoms. A study conducted in Singapore showed that patients with COVID-19 were able to spread the disease without showing symptoms themselves.

 

 

https://health.ucdavis.edu/coronavirus/resources/covid-19-faqs-for-health-professionals.html states:

COVID-19 may also be spread by people who are not showing symptoms (i.e., “asymptomatic”). According to the CDC, 35% of all people with COVID-19 are asymptomatic. However, those individuals are still as infectious as people with symptoms. 

 

https://time.com/5848949/covid-19-asymptomatic-spread/
In a study published June 3 in the Annals of Internal Medicine, researchers at the Scripps Research Translational Institute reviewed data from 16 different groups of COVID-19 patients from around the world to get a better idea of how many cases of coronavirus can likely be traced to people who spread the virus without ever knowing they were infected. Their conclusion: at minimum, 30%, and more likely 40% to 45%.

 

Edited June 8, 2020 by KirkNC

[bennybear]

11 hours ago, ABoatNerd said:

Would be great if the cruise industry could move ahead, but many barriers exist. No amount of letters to the PMO would change a thing, as optics, and only optics, are important to him.

 

In the end, people are spending portions of their vacation horde on non travel, like RV's, above ground pools mentioned earlier, and I am the very proud owner of a shiny new Porsche.  High end luxury SUV's are selling well, as evidenced by the new vehicles two of my friends have recently purchased.  They used to take cruises but are planning north american road trips together with high end land tours.

 

Once people find non cruise activities like driving trips for example - it will likely mean less cruise bookings in the future (me for sure).

 

This is a potential big impact on the cruise industry that well exceeds the ban on ports in canada or elsewhere.

 

We've always had an Rv. Last year we put it on a permanent lot for the first time. It has been difficult to get camping spots for years.    We are very glad because this year finding a camping spot is next to impossible with most just now opening at half capacity.  

 

We enjoy enjoy all aspects of travel.  Long winter  stays on an Island, travelling internationally independently.  Did a long road trip to Utah parks last year in our Lexus SUV.  While we totally enjoyed that it is not relaxing like a cruise.    So don’t really agree that any of these replace being at sea.  

 

Might have to buy a boat😎

[ABoatNerd]

bennybear, I think a boat is a great idea.  I am looking at the same and a cottage with the remainder of my cruise budget - so that will eliminate most foreign travel.

 

Also, considering the low Cdn$, I am not interested in foreign travel much anymore - too expensive.

 

I was very much considering eliminating most cruising before the virus due to the declining value of cruising - high prices/downgraded product. Had a very poor cruise on Oceania which soured me on that line in particular, but made me re-think what I get for my cruise $.

Then took a fabulous Globus tour last June of Austria, Switzerland, France, Germany with a QM2 return from Hamburg to NY. Simply outstanding and much less cost than a premium level cruise.

It just hit me in the face, the incredible value of the tour and the amazing sites and scenery and real, regional food versus the same old, same old, fake cruise experience.

 

This virus is the icing on the cake for leaving cruising behind and exploring the world in a way that provides real life experiences.

[d9704011]

57 minutes ago, ABoatNerd said:

This virus is the icing on the cake for leaving cruising behind and exploring the world in a way that provides real life experiences.

What about that low Canadian $ you wrote about earlier?

 

Personally, I agree with you on the whole land touring thing and that’s pretty much what we’ve transitioned to except for a winter cruise to escape the cold for a bit.

[daisy-mae]

Although we enjoyed (past tense) cruising, our real passion is cycle touring. We have covered parts of France, England,  Austria and the Netherlands on two wheels, and hope to have the opportunity to do so once again before age becomes a factor.

 

Because distances between towns are so much greater in our part of the country, and due to lack of cycling infrastructure (including bike-safe accommodation), we will have to be content with cycling around our city and outskirts for the foreseeable future.

[YXU AC*SE]

19 hours ago, fatcat04 said:

One encouraging note from the WHO..

Asymptomatic Transmission Is ‘Very Rare’: WHO (3:23 p.m. NY)

Transmission of the coronavirus by people who aren’t showing symptoms is “very rare,” the World Health Organization said Monday, contradicting speculation by public health officials and researchers that the disease was being spread by people who weren’t showing signs of illness.

 

 

And not less than 24 hours later WHO takes that back. 

Source:  https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/09/world/coronavirus-updates.html 

 

The W.H.O. walked back an earlier assertion that asymptomatic transmission is ‘very rare.’

A top expert at the World Health Organization on Tuesday walked back her earlier assertion that transmission of the coronavirus by people who do not have symptoms is “very rare.”  

Dr. Maria Van Kerkhove, who made the original comment at a W.H.O. briefing on Monday, said that it was based on just two or three studies and that it was a “misunderstanding” to say asymptomatic transmission is rare globally.

“I was just responding to a question, I wasn’t stating a policy of W.H.O. or anything like that,” she said.

 

Not to editorialize, but all these reversals don't exactly engender a lot of confidence -- especially when NEJM is contemporaneously publishing research editorials like Asymptomatic Transmission, the Achilles’ Heel of Current Strategies to Control Covid-19 (source: https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMe2009758).    Scott. 

 

 

[DaveSJ711]

On 6/7/2020 at 7:50 PM, ABoatNerd said:

Most Canadians are docile and are obedient in taking direction from their various levels of government without question, per socialist style. Hence general acceptance of government running all liquor sales and health care.

 

Docile?  Hmmm...

 

https://montreal.ctvnews.ca/deputy-premier-regrets-urging-quebecers-to-stay-docile-as-province-reckons-with-covid-19-1.4917632?cache=yesclipId104062

[bouhunter]

On 6/7/2020 at 11:23 PM, billbunger said:

Only if you live in Ontario or Quebec.

Yeah.

 

Have spent a lot of time with hunters and outfitters in other parts of Canada and I wouldn't call them docile or obedient. 😁

 

[DaveSJ711]

On 6/7/2020 at 3:36 PM, kazu said:

 

Not sure when the last time you were in the Maritimes but...that newspaper does not even come to the Atlantic Provinces any more in newspaper form.  Unless you choose to subscribe to it on line, it’s not available in 4 provinces anymore in newspaper format.  Hasn’t been available for a couple of years.  Guess we weren’t worth delivering to (and yes, we used to get it delivered daily).

 

Pick and choose your opinion posts all you want.  That is what they are - opinions.  Not news.  I do live in Canada and I know what we are like here 😉 

 

 

I visited Newfoundland in 2016 and 2019, Nova Scotia/New Brunswick/PEI in 2012, and Nova Scotia in 2005.  Eh?

 

I actually like Canadian deference.  American rebelliousness can be very tiring at times.

Edited June 9, 2020 by DaveSJ711

[DaveSJ711]

53 minutes ago, Cruising-along said:

Wow.

We aren't all stupid any more than Canadians are all nice. Please don't add to the finger-pointing and political posts.  

 

My wife tells me I'm stupid (or words to that effect).  I don't know whether she does that because I'm an American, or because I'm her husband, or both.

Edited June 9, 2020 by DaveSJ711

[slidergirl]

Reading all this from my friends above the Northern Border is refreshing.  I am sooooo tired of all the Americn babble.

 

I have several old friends who live in Alberta (Calgary and Red Deer) and B.C. (Kelowna and Whistler).  Their posts regarding Canadian politics, the oil issue, the tax distribution, can be just as passionate as those with different views in the US on politics, oil pipelines, COVID.  But, their posts do not get down in the gutter as much as those in the US.  

 

I've converted from cruising or vacationing across the Atlantic to camping.  Paying up to $50US/night for a campsite is doable.  Setting up my campsite is easy.  I can be as active as I want or spend the day in my lounge chair napping, reading, listening to music.  I don't do excursions anyway, so I can look up what is of interest in the area and do what I want and not do something that isn't of interest to me.  It's pretty darn freeing.  And, I'm on the downside of 60.  I wish I could do a roadtrip up to Canada, but not in the cards this year.  Quite a few of my friends are doing the RV thing this summer if they don't already camp.   The "Big 5" National Parks are going to be jammed, so we are searching out some alternative areas.  I'm trying to put together one, maybe two, roadmaps for the Summer and Fall.  Even when roadtripping, I have a Plan B - if I'm not comfortable in a area as a solo woman, I always know of a hotel that I can dive into.  I've done that before.   

 

If I wear my Canada Maple Leaf toque, my Canada Olympic Team jacket (gifted from one of my friends on the team back in 2002 and 2006), do you think they'd let me cross the border and not do a quarantine??? 😉

[Been There, Planning That]

8 minutes ago, slidergirl said:

 

If I wear my Canada Maple Leaf toque, my Canada Olympic Team jacket (gifted from one of my friends on the team back in 2002 and 2006), do you think they'd let me cross the border and not do a quarantine??? 😉

 

Nice try but even Canadian passport holders must do their 14 day sentence in self isolation!  And I don't think camping would count. 🤤

 

Otherwise we'd love to have you visit.

 

Ruth

[T8NCruise]

On 6/7/2020 at 7:50 PM, ABoatNerd said:

Most Canadians are docile and are obedient in taking direction from their various levels of government without question, per socialist style. Hence general acceptance of government running all liquor sales and health care.

 

The Globe and Mail and National Post co-share national newspaper distribution.

 

Low population levels in many provinces and Canada's large geographical size make it not financially feasible to physically distribute a national newspaper.

 

The CTV national news social media platform had an article last week saying that RV's are the new cruise ships and that RV sales are booming across Canada. 

 

 

 

 

 

I can't say I've ever been considered docile, but then again it must be all that pot we smoke up here, LOL.

Honestly, between you and a couple of others, the generalisations and total misconceptions are astounding. 

Edited June 9, 2020 by T8NCruise

[DaveSJ711]

26 minutes ago, T8NCruise said:

Honestly, between you and a couple of others, the generalisations and total misconceptions are astounding. 

 

The "couple of others" presumably include the Deputy Premier of Quebec (see above).