Mask or No Mask

[ray98]

On 9/4/2020 at 12:46 PM, latserrof said:

Or not.

 

That study was  masks during surgery ("Keywords: Surgery"); might results be different from the general population during a pandemic?

 

 

You are right....those results should be BETTER than you what you see in the general population.  Those are professionals in a sterile environment who are using good quality PPE with proper training on how to doff and don.  Their results should exceed what you will find in untrained populations using in most cases makeshift PPE.

[BlerkOne]

4 minutes ago, glrounds said:

 

The vaccine artificially PROVIDES herd immunity. That's what I'm waiting for.

 

A 50% or even 70% effective vaccine won't get us there, and is unlikely to be mandatory. The current thinking is immunity only lasts for a little while whatever the source. I don't feel like waiting years.

[glrounds]

20 minutes ago, BlerkOne said:

 

A 50% or even 70% effective vaccine won't get us there, and is unlikely to be mandatory. The current thinking is immunity only lasts for a little while whatever the source. I don't feel like waiting years.

 

Who told you it will only be 50-70% effective, or is this a rationalization of your deepest desires. 🙂

If masks and distancing are going to be so god awful effective, is the virus incapable of spreading when someone is eating or taking a drink in the bar ? How about when they open the door to their cabin after having their masks off in their cabin ?

Edited September 5, 2020 by glrounds

[BlerkOne]

9 minutes ago, glrounds said:

 

Who told you it will only be 50-70% effective, or is this a rationalization of your deepest desires. 🙂

If masks and distancing are going to be so god awful effective, is the virus incapable of spreading when someone is eating or taking a drink in the bar ? How about when they open the door to their cabin after having their masks off in their cabin ?

 

The FDA said they would approve vaccines if only 50% effective - that tells me they aren't setting the bar or expectations very high. Fauci was hoping for 70%, but if 30%+ of the population refuses the vaccine (as polls indicate), we don't get to herd immunity. The virus is mutating which accounts for some cases being missed by testing. As some people have caught the virus more than once, immunity doesn't last very long, apparently.

 

I will offer the successful MSC cruise and NYC as evidence that masks and distancing are effective. As for eating and drinking the tables and chairs are separated far enough. Barriers can also be placed between tables or bar stools - the servers will be wearing masks. There is a certain amount of personal responsibility expected including covering your mouth and nose when coughing/sneezing. If someone is suspected of having the virus, testing and contact tracing to squash it ASAP. Cruising may turn out to be the pioneers that show us how it is done.

[chipmaster]

6 hours ago, BlerkOne said:

 

Still waiting for Sweden to prove that it is possible. So far they have failed. Most of the world has travel restrictions Americans. So far we have, too.

 

sadly biology can't be manipulated, should be respected and managed smartly with science

[latserrof]

23 hours ago, ray98 said:

 

 

You are right....those results should be BETTER than you what you see in the general population.  Those are professionals in a sterile environment who are using good quality PPE with proper training on how to doff and don.  Their results should exceed what you will find in untrained populations using in most cases makeshift PPE.

Or not.  There's too many differences between (1) a patient in an operating room with several medical personnel pre-2015 (the study's date) and (2) a worldwide pandemic in 2020, to jump to that surmise.

 

BTW, that Journal study  was not a clinical study at all but an academic study of other literature (including even a study of studies) .

 

And even within its limited and disparate scope, the Journal study said "It is clear that more studies are required before any absolute conclusions can be drawn regarding the effectiveness or, indeed, ineffectiveness of surgical masks.

And "It is important not to construe an absence of evidence for effectiveness with evidence for the absence of effectiveness. While there is a lack of evidence supporting the effectiveness of facemasks, there is similarly a lack of evidence supporting their ineffectiveness."

 

Some study, huh?  But there's not much ammo there for the anti-mask types.

 

[glrounds]

23 hours ago, BlerkOne said:

 

The FDA said they would approve vaccines if only 50% effective - that tells me they aren't setting the bar or expectations very high. Fauci was hoping for 70%, but if 30%+ of the population refuses the vaccine (as polls indicate), we don't get to herd immunity. The virus is mutating which accounts for some cases being missed by testing. As some people have caught the virus more than once, immunity doesn't last very long, apparently.

 

I will offer the successful MSC cruise and NYC as evidence that masks and distancing are effective. As for eating and drinking the tables and chairs are separated far enough. Barriers can also be placed between tables or bar stools - the servers will be wearing masks. There is a certain amount of personal responsibility expected including covering your mouth and nose when coughing/sneezing. If someone is suspected of having the virus, testing and contact tracing to squash it ASAP. Cruising may turn out to be the pioneers that show us how it is done.

 

I won't board a cruise ship UNTIL one of the boarding requirements is providing proof of vaccination for Covid19. This is the best "herd" immunity that I can think of, the artificial kind. If according to your comments there will be evolved mutations of the virus thus defeating immunity then I'm probably through with cruising. With so many cruises under my belt, I'm probably JADED, but I have no desire to do that mask, distancing thing AND PAY FOR IT. Being able to "be on a cruise" doesn't carry that kind of fascination for me anymore, apparently.

 

Your logic on MSC with masks and distancing is, of course, faulty. If MSC had had a cruise with no masks or social distancing and NO ONE got sick, would that be proof that masks and distancing are unnecessary ?

 

 

 

 

[BlerkOne]

3 minutes ago, glrounds said:

 

I won't board a cruise ship UNTIL one of the boarding requirements is providing proof of vaccination for Covid19. This is the best "herd" immunity that I can think of, the artificial kind. If according to your comments there will be evolved mutations of the virus thus defeating immunity then I'm probably through with cruising. With so many cruises under my belt, I'm probably JADED, but I have no desire to do that mask, distancing thing AND PAY FOR IT. Being able to "be on a cruise" doesn't carry that kind of fascination for me anymore, apparently.

 

Your logic on MSC with masks and distancing is, of course, faulty. If MSC had had a cruise with no masks or social distancing and NO ONE got sick, would that be proof that masks and distancing are unnecessary ?

 

 

 

 

Whether you cruise or not is obviously up to you, but IMO too many people or putting too much faith in a vaccine that doesn't exist, and may never. I accept that there is a new normal and, as always, life goes on.

 

Obviously a single cruise is anecdotal, but as the number of cruises increase, if outbreaks on cruise ships are less than what you find on land, it strongly suggests a cause and effect, or lack thereof. However, MSC is not depending only on masks and social distancing to mitigate C19, and to suggest that it is, is faulty logic.

[jimbo5544]

Here is a list of cruises going on now.   
 

 

 

https://www.cruiseindustrynews.com/cruise-news/23461-here-are-the-cruise-ships-back-in-service.html

 

 

[chill6x6]

6 minutes ago, jimbo5544 said:

Here is a list of cruises going on now.   
 

 

 

https://www.cruiseindustrynews.com/cruise-news/23461-here-are-the-cruise-ships-back-in-service.html

 

 

Thanks for that!

[jimbo5544]

44 minutes ago, chill6x6 said:

Thanks for that!

My pleasure, I am watching closely with crossed everything.  

[chill6x6]

32 minutes ago, jimbo5544 said:

My pleasure, I am watching closely with crossed everything.  

Same here!

[jonbgd]

i would wear a mask as long as i had a balcony to enjoy my DOD

I wish i was on a transatlantic i need any ports

[jetsfan58]

Mask are still the major fashion accessory for 2020 and beyond. Maybe try matching mask fabrics to your outfits;. then we would all be "cruise" ready for the sail away parties. That might even evolve into a new Cruise poolside event called; "Who has the trendiest mask"?   

[lmb84]

On 8/24/2020 at 6:09 AM, sealynx said:

If I have to wear a mask at limited amound of places, like only during boarding, in corridors, lifts, or maybe even in the theater, then yes, I would take the cruise, no problem. If I have to wear the mask like all the time, except for dinner, then no thank you, I'll wait a little longer. Currently the idea of only being allowed to leave the ship with an excursion bothers me more, than the idea of having to wear a mask every now and then.

Wait....What?  Only leave the ship if you are doing an excursion?  Did I miss something

[jetsfan58]

How about not leaving the ship? The Bubble effect is working well so far for the NBA. Might not be a bad idea?

[Keksie]

5 minutes ago, jetsfan58 said:

How about not leaving the ship? The Bubble effect is working well so far for the NBA. Might not be a bad idea?

I guess if that is the kind of vacation you want but it would not be enjoyable for us.

 

[jetsfan58]

5 minutes ago, Keksie said:

I guess if that is the kind of vacation you want but it would not be enjoyable for us.

 

It's certainly not a testament to my vacation. If I had my way we would all be able to run free and converse as we did before in close quarters. Reality says "Hold up" you can't do all of that "good and fun" stuff right now. The "Bubble" is working in the world of the NBA. Could we not, just for once, sacrifice invading an Island or two, a swim with the dolphins, a walk along the port shops to continue to safely cruise?

 

I would give those things up in a heartbeat and remain onboard if it meant "safe cruising" and continued cruising.   

[coevan]

41 minutes ago, jetsfan58 said:

How about not leaving the ship? The Bubble effect is working well so far for the NBA. Might not be a bad idea?

 

 

You really are not comparing the NBA to a cruise. 30 rich guys getting tested daily, locked in a hotel. It’s called the NBA bubble for a reason. They have a mission to finish the playoffs.  3000 people on a boat with virtually no testing, very similar 🙈 

[jetsfan58]

9 minutes ago, coevan said:

 

 

You really are not comparing the NBA to a cruise. 30 rich guys getting tested daily, locked in a hotel. It’s called the NBA bubble for a reason. They have a mission to finish the playoffs.  3000 people on a boat with virtually no testing, very similar 🙈 

Yes indeed I am comparing them both. Since when did sample size have anything to do with real results and outcomes? The NBA is following the prescribed rules of engagement; something that we as US citizens have not learned as of yet to do. Those rich guys (they are certainly not playing for money) are playing for the "non present" fans, future championships and more importantly because they probably love the game. The 3000 Cruise passengers, if they don't learn to follow the rules, will not have to worry about a "bubble" because they won't be cruising.      

[Keksie]

2 hours ago, jetsfan58 said:

It's certainly not a testament to my vacation. If I had my way we would all be able to run free and converse as we did before in close quarters. Reality says "Hold up" you can't do all of that "good and fun" stuff right now. The "Bubble" is working in the world of the NBA. Could we not, just for once, sacrifice invading an Island or two, a swim with the dolphins, a walk along the port shops to continue to safely cruise?

 

I would give those things up in a heartbeat and remain onboard if it meant "safe cruising" and continued cruising.   

If you want to pay your money and cruise in a bubble maybe they will have a cruise for you.  I prefer to wait until I can enjoy my cruise.  Until then I will just go to the beach here and eat at my favorite restaurants looking out over the gulf.

[sealynx]

14 hours ago, lmb84 said:

Wait....What?  Only leave the ship if you are doing an excursion?  Did I miss something

yep, that is the case now with MSC and Costa. Hopefully as a temporary measure. MSC has even booted a few passengers because they left their excursion group and thus broke the Corona-free-bubble the company wants to create arround their passengers.

[buckeyefrank]

On 8/24/2020 at 12:43 PM, xDisconnections said:

It’s funny how our residents in the United States complain so much about masks and only want the trend to disappear as quickly as possible (myself included). Many here even refuse to comply with local laws requiring one.

 

It’s quite the opposite in other cultures where they happily wear one and have been wearing them long before Covid.

And there are numerous other countries that did not wear masks, did not shut down and are doing just fine.  Not sure I understand your point.  The virus is not going to disappear anymore than the common flu.  I have no faith in a vaccine but there are certainly already multiple medicines to significantly reduce the effects of the virus, both at the early stages and advanced stages.  Nobody seems to be talking about that.

[buckeyefrank]

23 hours ago, jetsfan58 said:

How about not leaving the ship? The Bubble effect is working well so far for the NBA. Might not be a bad idea?

apples to oranges comparison that makes no sense.  The NBA (and NHL) bubbles are for several months.  After a period of quarantine they won't be able to contract the virus because they aren't coming in contact with anyone from the outside.  A cruise is only for 7 days and the virus can be incubating that entire period.  And then new people can come into a room that was infected from a prior cruise. 

[buckeyefrank]

On 9/5/2020 at 12:47 PM, jetsfan58 said:

Maybe it's something psychological that I was not gifted with? I have tried to understand opposition to mask wearing for months. I just can't wrap my arms around the fact that it makes necessary and common sense to wear our protective masks and people still are saying "no". Maybe it's a recurring medical condition that the mask cause to reoccur? Maybe it's some form of onset "premature claustrophobia"? Maybe it's just that some can't submit to "justified authority"?   

 

I am not a member of Carnival's Board of Directors or their crew family; however, In am a member of "The Proud" US Citizenship that values everyone's safety.    

Has nothing to do with medical conditions or claustrophobia, etc.  It's very simple.  If the government (at all levels) would be transparent about the risk, number of infections, severity of infections and deaths and report accurate numbers I, for one, would be much more open to listen to their input.  By "their" I mean the government and their "trusted" advisors.  The number of cases has been reported to be overstated because of counting every positive test as an active case.  One person tests positive 8 straight days, reported as 8 active cases...  That's not right.  Not to mention the testing parameters are being shown to be too sensitive and that 50 - 90% of the positive cases aren't even infectious.  That came out last week.  The deaths are over-reported because doctors are being compensated for each covid death by the CDC.  My daughter had a patient on kidney dialysis who died of kidney failure, was ruled covid death.  Had no covid symptoms.  A biker in Florida was killed in a car accident ruled a covid death..   a suicide in Chicago was ruled a covid death.   There have been several studies showing the effectiveness of Hydroxychloriquine as a preventative and useful and safe drug early in treatment, not to mention Remdesvir (sp) and a few others.  Also when treated with steroids through a nebulizer, the impact is almost immediately felt positively.  Facebook, media, etc trying to shut down anyone with a dissenting opinion on anything that goes against the "grain".  There are also several studies I've seen where the effectiveness of masks is actually in question.  The CDC originally said to NOT wear masks because they did nothing to prevent the spread.   Until the powers that be, actually become transparent and tell the TRUTH, I will side with the constitution which tells me I am in the land of the free.