When Will We Feel Safe to Cruise Again

[PrincessLuver]

On 9/18/2020 at 9:06 PM, sfaaa said:

My understanding from current MSC model is that mask is required in enclosed space but not open areas like outdoor pool area or promenade deck so long as social distancing rule is followed.

 

Evidently there is plenty of evidence to support the fact  that the Covid-19 virus does not social distance, it floats in the air, so no masks outdoors on a cruise ship I would think leaves an easy way for spread to possibly happen.  It will be very hard for people to social distance outside on a cruise ship with what we have experienced on most ships.

[Hlitner]

8 hours ago, mcrcruiser said:

Many good discussions above . A few things to ponder . The alcohol stations that cruise lines use when entering the eating areas DO NOT prevent Norovirus .It takes  Clorox  wipes . Clorox is the only agent that kills the Norovirus bug 

 

 Imo the cruise lines have a long way to go to guarantee safe passage  .What has not been discussed is how does the air handling equipment prevent the virus from spreading from cabin to cabin & p;ace to place 

 

 Yes many unanswered questions . For us it is most obvious that we must protect ourselves with a vaccination that truly is effective  & who is to say that there can be mutations of the covid 19 las there has already been one mutation  .Yes & yes there are many unanswered questions .Thus ,for us the earliest we think we can savely cruise is not until our Jan 2022 cruise & we are hoping we are right  do we can cruise 

 

  

Ahhh, but the problem is that not all Clorox wipes are effective against Noro.  Bleach is certainly a great product to kill Noro but there is no bleach in most Clorox wipes.  The CDC, on its website, is pretty clear about which Clorox wipes are effective against Noro and they are limited to "Clorox Healthcare Hydrogen Peroxide Cleaner Disinfectant Wipes" or "Clorox Multi-Surface Quat Alcohol Cleaner Disinfectant Wipes."  Both of these products (not normally found in stores) require at least 3 minutes of wet use to be effective against Noro!   The normal Clorox Wipes we all buy in our supermarkets are not considered effective against Noro.

 

So what's the story?  A few years ago we had the pleasure of meeting (and having lunch with) a CDC trainer who was on our cruise for the purpose of conducting training sessions with the crew.  The topic at lunch was Noro and this scientist explained that the Norovirus is protected by a "hard shell" that makes it difficult to kill with most hand products.  That is why the CDC has always been big on just washing hands (for over 20 seconds) with hot water and soap (this is very effective against noro).    But COVID is different and appears to be relatively easy to kill (a good thing) but unfortunately for all of us it is also very contagious.  

 

What to do?  We have always done a lot of frequent handwashing when in travel/cruise mode and have been fortunate to never having contracted Noro despite more then 1200 days on cruise ships.   The folks that simply depend on hand sanitizers like Purell are doing little to prevent Noro.  In fact, prior to COVID many cruise lines had eliminated the old hand sanitizers and installed hand washing sinks (often found at the entrance to Lido Buffets).  Now that we have this new COVID problem I think we will see hand sanitizers everywhere on ships.   Perhaps the smartest play is to wash your hands with hot soapy water and then further disinfect them with a hand sanitizer.  On the other hand (pun intended) after a long cruise we are all likely to have "dishpan hands."

 

Hank

[mcrcruiser]

4 hours ago, voljeep said:

that will NEVER happen if that will be required before cruising starts again for anyone

 

guarantee and demand ...😷 🍻

 Imo ,The question is if  those who wish to cruise perceive that there  health & safety could be at risk ,the chances of a cruise industry recovery is unlikely

[mcrcruiser]

1 hour ago, PrincessLuver said:

 

Evidently there is plenty of evidence to support the fact  that the Covid-19 virus does not social distance, it floats in the air, so no masks outdoors on a cruise ship I would think leaves an easy way for spread to possibly happen.  It will be very hard for people to social distance outside on a cruise ship with what we have experienced on most ships.

imo you are correct . Masks  should be required to wear them by any one on the ship .The better answer is mass inoculations before this virus can mutate once again & then the quick test for every one who arrives at the port to board .Further ,only cruise led excursions with strict protocols  should be allowed until this virus is defeated around the world 

[mcrcruiser]

23 minutes ago, Hlitner said:

Ahhh, but the problem is that not all Clorox wipes are effective against Noro.  Bleach is certainly a great product to kill Noro but there is no bleach in most Clorox wipes.  The CDC, on its website, is pretty clear about which Clorox wipes are effective against Noro and they are limited to "Clorox Healthcare Hydrogen Peroxide Cleaner Disinfectant Wipes" or "Clorox Multi-Surface Quat Alcohol Cleaner Disinfectant Wipes."  Both of these products (not normally found in stores) require at least 3 minutes of wet use to be effective against Noro!   The normal Clorox Wipes we all buy in our supermarkets are not considered effective against Noro.

 

So what's the story?  A few years ago we had the pleasure of meeting (and having lunch with) a CDC trainer who was on our cruise for the purpose of conducting training sessions with the crew.  The topic at lunch was Noro and this scientist explained that the Norovirus is protected by a "hard shell" that makes it difficult to kill with most hand products.  That is why the CDC has always been big on just washing hands (for over 20 seconds) with hot water and soap (this is very effective against noro).    But COVID is different and appears to be relatively easy to kill (a good thing) but unfortunately for all of us it is also very contagious.  

 

What to do?  We have always done a lot of frequent handwashing when in travel/cruise mode and have been fortunate to never having contracted Noro despite more then 1200 days on cruise ships.   The folks that simply depend on hand sanitizers like Purell are doing little to prevent Noro.  In fact, prior to COVID many cruise lines had eliminated the old hand sanitizers and installed hand washing sinks (often found at the entrance to Lido Buffets).  Now that we have this new COVID problem I think we will see hand sanitizers everywhere on ships.   Perhaps the smartest play is to wash your hands with hot soapy water and then further disinfect them with a hand sanitizer.  On the other hand (pun intended) after a long cruise we are all likely to have "dishpan hands."

 

Hank

Hank you are spot on .I forgot to mention getting the clorox info from the CDC web site . Before the covid 19 virus spread we only saw a smattering of wash basins before going into the buffets  . Yes ,all cruise ships should be fitted out to have wash basins on both sides going into the buffets  . Even  the public bathroom need some form of door handle sanitation device to stop the spread of virus .  For years I would take a paper towel to open the door when I finished washing my hands & throw it  in the waste basket ;however ,most folks do not use that protocol  .It has kept us  healthy  on our cruises .  We have been on noro virus ships &  the watered down bleach spraying is every where ,a light white film is created even on upholstered chairs & sofas 

[iancal]

My fear is that a great deal of PR damage has already been done to the industry.   Cruzaholics will get back on ships AsAP

 

I have to wonder what will be the impact of this on Joe and Mary Doe  who are sitting at home considering a cruise as just one of potential ways to spend they vacation time and money. 

 

Same with people with children.  Are they even bothering to ask themselves should we take a family cruise or opt for an AI, Disneyland, a cottage, camping...whatever.

 

 

[Abercrombie2019]

5 minutes ago, iancal said:

My fear is that a great deal of PR damage has already been done to the industry.   Cruzaholics will get back on ships AsAP

 

I have to wonder what will be the impact of this on Joe and Mary Doe  who are sitting at home considering a cruise as just one of potential ways to spend they vacation time and money. 

 

Same with people with children.  Are they even bothering to ask themselves should we take a family cruise or opt for an AI, Disneyland, a cottage, camping...whatever.

 

 

I'm not afraid that the cruise line will have trouble getting people to cruise again.  I'm more concerned that too many people will want to cruise again - too soon.

Restaurants haven't had too much trouble convincing people to eat indoors, despite a pandemic with an airborne virus.  (And we are finding ourselves in the position of re-closing bars, and some restaurants in the face of spiking numbers in Ontario and Quebec).

[mcrcruiser]

28 minutes ago, Abercrombie2019 said:

I'm not afraid that the cruise line will have trouble getting people to cruise again.  I'm more concerned that too many people will want to cruise again - too soon.

Restaurants haven't had too much trouble convincing people to eat indoors, despite a pandemic with an airborne virus.  (And we are finding ourselves in the position of re-closing bars, and some restaurants in the face of spiking numbers in Ontario and Quebec).

True however ,here in the US our CDC will have a lot to say whether  how cruise ships  can sail  .In other words the CDC & Federal government will determine along with the high ranking cruise executives what  protocols must be in place ,like the numbers of pax that can sail on any ship  ,for the social distancing ,wearing masks ,quick tests for the virus before boarding  ,hand washing requirements ,use of public bathroom requirements & ship tours ie  .Thew showrooms will be a challenge  as well as the gyms ,pools & massage rooms  ie 

[Hlitner]

7 hours ago, mcrcruiser said:

True however ,here in the US our CDC will have a lot to say whether  how cruise ships  can sail  .In other words the CDC & Federal government will determine along with the high ranking cruise executives what  protocols must be in place ,like the numbers of pax that can sail on any ship  ,for the social distancing ,wearing masks ,quick tests for the virus before boarding  ,hand washing requirements ,use of public bathroom requirements & ship tours ie  .Thew showrooms will be a challenge  as well as the gyms ,pools & massage rooms  ie 

Lets look at the latest.  The CDC wanted to extend the "No Sail" order until Feb 15, 2021 but apparently the White House intervened and the CDC agreed to a "No Sail" extension until October 31.  That being said I find it very telling that the CDC apparently preferred a Feb date....likely because the cruise line health proposals (NCL/RCI) does not really address some of the major COVID questions.   Lets face it, the cruise lines are fighting for their lives and their proposals manage to nip at the edges of COVID without dealing with the major issues.   DW and I want to get back to our cruising lifestyle (we cruise about 100 days a year) but do not want to cruise until it is relatively safe and the issues with Ports has been resolved.

 

Hank

[WAMarathoner]

11 hours ago, mcrcruiser said:

imo you are correct . Masks  should be required to wear them by any one on the ship .The better answer is mass inoculations before this virus can mutate once again & then the quick test for every one who arrives at the port to board .Further ,only cruise led excursions with strict protocols  should be allowed until this virus is defeated around the world 

 

You should probably book with RCCL, then.  It appears Princess is going to take more of a Personal Responsibility tack, focusing mainly on the crew: https://www.princess.com/plan/cruise-with-confidence/cruise-health/ with pre-board screening for passengers, temperature checks, and crew-served meals.

 

Choose what works best for your own level of comfort.  For us, we just booked another Princess cruise for May (only put the deposit though in case they change their protocols), and we will be breathing freely!

[mcrcruiser]

38 minutes ago, WAMarathoner said:

 

You should probably book with RCCL, then.  It appears Princess is going to take more of a Personal Responsibility tack, focusing mainly on the crew: https://www.princess.com/plan/cruise-with-confidence/cruise-health/ with pre-board screening for passengers, temperature checks, and crew-served meals.

 

Choose what works best for your own level of comfort.  For us, we just booked another Princess cruise for May (only put the deposit though in case they change their protocols), and we will be breathing freely!

If any person is  A symtomatic   temperature checks will not divulge  the covid 19 virus they carry ;however ,the quick test ;which is now available ,would show them carrying the virus . Also .one of the reasons people in their cabins got ill with the virus on the Diamond Princess in Tokyo was through the  air handling in their state rooms  .Personally & for future reference we will feel a lot safer when the scientists & medical professionals say it is safe to cruise once again & definitely not  any cruise line 

[Abercrombie2019]

41 minutes ago, WAMarathoner said:

 

You should probably book with RCCL, then.  It appears Princess is going to take more of a Personal Responsibility tack, focusing mainly on the crew: https://www.princess.com/plan/cruise-with-confidence/cruise-health/ with pre-board screening for passengers, temperature checks, and crew-served meals.

 

Choose what works best for your own level of comfort.  For us, we just booked another Princess cruise for May (only put the deposit though in case they change their protocols), and we will be breathing freely!

Princess has not made a decision on masks yet, and they have stated that they will make a decision once they formalize a policy.  I imagine that they will do what the CLIA says all cruise lines will do.  The following is from the FAQ in 

Princess’ Cruise With Confidence:

 

Will everyone be required to wear masks? Is there a particular type and will they be provided? 

A: According to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, wearing masks when physical distancing cannot be maintained is helpful in slowing the spread of COVID-19 when combined with other preventative actions. For this reason, many guests will choose to wear them. We will assess the situation to formalize our policy prior to when we start sailing again based on the latest scientific and medical information available as well as guidance from public health experts.

[HappyInVan]

Just back from a trip to Toronto, flying with Westjet. Seems safe enough, though restrictive. It's a matter of layers of safety.

 

Everyone has to wear masks at the airport. Temperature check before the security checkpoint. As a senior, my temperature runs cool.

 

Before boarding, one elderly gentleman was advised that his synthetic bandanna was not on the approved list. He found a disposable mask.

 

On the plane, the premium section was full. Less than half in the economy section. Everyone wore masks. The weakness laid in the neighbor. On the outbound trip, the young man was constantly snacking. He took his mask off even as my mask was off.

 

On the inbound flight, my neighbor did not take his mask off. Did not drink or eat on the 4.5 hour flight.

 

So, I'm quite comfortable flying. I would be happy to cruise with the same layers of protection. In a confined space of a vessel/vehicle, everyone has to wear masks. Any cough/sneeze is going to spread the stuff all over the tables/chairs and on your clothes and hair.

 

MSC has shown that it can be done. 

[caribill]

1 hour ago, mcrcruiser said:

If any person is  A symtomatic   temperature checks will not divulge  the covid 19 virus they carry ;however ,the quick test ;which is now available ,would show them carrying the virus .

 

 

For those who will present symptoms, they will still be contagious in the two days before the symptoms show up. At that point, the level of virus may not be high enough for the quick test to detect the virus. And a couple of days before that, the quick test will definitely not be able to detect the virus.

 

There may be several quick tests available, but the first one I read about and which has a lot of publicity was specifically designed from when a doctor felt that a patient who showed symptoms needed to be tested. It was not publicized as a test that cold detect the virus earlier than that.

 

Quote

Also .one of the reasons people in their cabins got ill with the virus on the Diamond Princess in Tokyo was through the  air handling in their state rooms .

 

 

Not true for the Diamond. Recirculated air in a stateroom was only with air from that stateroom.

 

People who got ill once isolated in their cabins had caught the virus before being quarantined in the cabins. (Except for one couple who broke quarantine by opening the door between their balcony and the next one and mingling with their friends there.)

[mcrcruiser]

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Posted 8 hours ago

  10 hours ago, mcrcruiser said:

If any person is  A symtomatic   temperature checks will not divulge  the covid 19 virus they carry ;however ,the quick test ;which is now available ,would show them carrying the virus .

 

 

For those who will present symptoms, they will still be contagious in the two days before the symptoms show up. At that point, the level of virus may not be high enough for the quick test to detect the virus. And a couple of days before that, the quick test will definitely not be able to detect the virus.

 

There may be several quick tests available, but the first one I read about and which has a lot of publicity was specifically designed from when a doctor felt that a patient who showed symptoms needed to be tested. It was not publicized as a test that cold detect the virus earlier than that.

 

If that is the case then the cruise lines will have a really tough sell .  There is no way that people  ,other than the ones who like risk taking ,will expose themselves to this virus  . Many Pax are seniors who have the time & resources to cruise   & we can't see them as big risk takers 

 

[mcrcruiser]

Not true for the Diamond. Recirculated air in a stateroom was only with air from that stateroom.

 

People who got ill once isolated in their cabins had caught the virus before being quarantined in the cabins. (Except for one couple who broke quarantine by opening the door between their balcony and the next one and mingling with their friends there

 

 How did the English couple who was on video many days from their cabin get  infected with the virus ?

 

  

[Steelers36]

On 9/29/2020 at 9:27 AM, PrincessLuver said:

 

Evidently there is plenty of evidence to support the fact  that the Covid-19 virus does not social distance, it floats in the air, so no masks outdoors on a cruise ship I would think leaves an easy way for spread to possibly happen.  It will be very hard for people to social distance outside on a cruise ship with what we have experienced on most ships.

 

On 9/29/2020 at 11:20 AM, mcrcruiser said:

imo you are correct . Masks  should be required to wear them by any one on the ship .The better answer is mass inoculations before this virus can mutate once again & then the quick test for every one who arrives at the port to board .Further ,only cruise led excursions with strict protocols  should be allowed until this virus is defeated around the world 

 

Think back to being on a ship underway.  The Promenade deck area is very windy.  Anything breathed out is gone in a flash.  Casual, momentary passing another person outdoors is basically zero risk - unless part of a big crowd I suppose.  Now, the under-cover sections of Lido deck may more approach an inside area, but then many indoor areas can be breezy too with doors opening and AC running.  

 

Since people cannot react fast enough or think location details, probably best to have a rule to wear unless seated on open deck.  Seating is going to be spaced out and not chock-a-block I expect.  Devil is in the details and we don't know these as yet. 

 

Anyway, most of the outdoor areas of a moving ship are breezy enough that nothing of consequence is going to be hanging around long I imagine.

 

[Vegastime]

On 9/12/2020 at 7:45 PM, cruzsnooze said:

The Doctors state it will be a two step vaccine and each need to be given 30 days apart. The actual expect, Dr Fauci says things won't get back to pre-covid until late 2011.  

  I don't feel comfortable about any vaccine rushed through protocol by politicians and will wait to see if it really works without major side effects.

Johnson & Johnson is in phase 3 of a one dose vaccine. Getting some publicity as most do require two doses. Seems to me I read one other company has a one dose vaccine in trials.

[Vegastime]

On 9/13/2020 at 11:50 AM, caribill said:

 

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/moderna-and-pfizers-covid-19-vaccine-candidates-require-ultra-low-temperatures-raising-questions-about-storage-distribution-2020-08-27

 

Executives from Moderna and Pfizer on Wednesday separately told the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention’s Advisory Committee on Immunization Practice on Wednesday that mRNA-1273, which is Moderna’s coronavirus vaccine candidate, requires a storage temperature of negative 4 degrees Fahrenheit. BioNTech and Pfizer’s candidates, BN1162b2 and BNT162b2, need to be stored in negative 94 degrees Fahrenheit.

 

“These storage conditions would make traditional office or pharmacy administration very difficult,” SVB Leerink analysts wrote in a note to investors on Thursday. “These conditions could be met at tertiary hospitals and laboratories and could be accommodated in intensive one-day vaccination events at such sites, but this would still only cover a fraction of the healthy population.”

Just read an article that stated the following:

 

"Moderna's shot needs to be stored and transported at -4 degrees Fahrenheit and can be kept in a refrigerator below 46 degrees for up to seven days."

[Ombud]

I would feel perfectly safe cruising but I don't think SF will allow ships. In that most of my scheduled cruises were out of there, I'm rescheduling for 3rd quarter 2021 & later. In a way it's a good thing PCL canceled my April cruise. I have so much FCC from just 1 canceled cruise that it'll cover 14 days in Queensland (Dec 21), Pacific Northwest (April 22), & the kids Ca Coastal (April 22). If Princess survives

[caribill]

Received an E-mail today from Princess offering discounts for Texas residents on December (this year) Caribbean cruises.

[Abercrombie2019]

Received an email from Princess offering discounts for Ontario residents for Caribbean Cruises.  Probably the same offer.

[voljeep]

6 hours ago, caribill said:

Received an E-mail today from Princess offering discounts for Texas residents on December (this year) Caribbean cruises.

 

28 minutes ago, Abercrombie2019 said:

Received an email from Princess offering discounts for Ontario residents for Caribbean Cruises.  Probably the same offer.

Mine was "special" for Florida

[caribill]

1 hour ago, voljeep said:

 

Mine was "special" for Florida

 

Looks as if all of us are special in Princess' view.

 

But the interesting point is they are still trying to sell December cruises that are unlikely to actually sail.

[caribill]

Not Princess, but Carnival Cruise lines is cancelling more cruises:

 

Carnival Cruise Line is notifying guests and travel agents that it has cancelled cruises from all U.S. ports except Miami and Port Canaveral for November and December.

 

Carnival is letting customers with cruises out of Miami and Port Canaveral cancel their reservations and rebook for a later cruise.