CDC wants U.S. travelers not to cruise - not surprising

[BlerkOne]

Just now, PhillyFan33579 said:

 Unfortunately that isn’t the case with everyone, although from my experience the overwhelming majority of people we see when we are out wear a mask and don’t seem to deliberately wander close to other people. 

 

Unfortunately the minority of people who won't wear masks or social distance ARE the problem and why the US is the leader (in not a good way) of Covid.

[Jasalth]

I am one who has well.. just given up. I am going to live my life (with in) recommended guidelines and go about my business, including travel! I came to this conclusion because my job just informed up, they will look into us returning to the office, in Q2 of 2021. Not us returning then, but starting to consider WHEN we will be. I do work in a heath care field that can easily be done remotely though so... and save me $ on taxes because I now to get write off a ton of stuff because of company requirements that I have to have for it! 

 

That being said, if I could be on a cruise ship right now, I would. It's life now, I accept my risks. Heck, 2 weeks ago we went out to dinner for the first time since March. They did well, but I would say the indoor dining was still about 60% full. Large place though that was pretty spread out before hand. Just on Friday, I went to a theater production! Sure it was outside in a tent. But it was still life (and I finally got my kids to see Rocky Horror Live, and my 18 yr old wants to go every week when it is local again hopefully soon!)

 

I find it funny that in 5 weeks, I will be getting on a airplane, going to a different city, running through the airport to get onto a different plane, spending 8 days in Mexico, getting back on a plane, going through 2 airports before finally getting home. That is a lot more people I would/could come in contact with than if I drove to a cruise port, got on a ship with the same people for 7 days, and drove back. I mean, I don't know who/what/where the people on my first flight are going or coming from, same with my 2nd. I mean.. that is a lot of almost impossible contact tracing IMO. 

 

Alas I keep checking back here though to see what other cruises have canceled for December. Trying to plan my Tulum-Coba and Chichen Itza days on low cruise ship days 🙂 

 

Covid is now life, as thinking (mostly) beings, we also have the right to decide what is best of us. I am one of who is over it all, 6 months ago I was like.. oh better stay safe! Now I am more of the thought of oh, better stay SANE! 

[Arizona Wildcat]

6 hours ago, pe4all said:

Just out today.   https://www.cruiseindustrynews.com/cruise-news/23757-cdc-defer-all-cruise-travel.html

This notice was first issued in March.  Nothing new.  For those at risk such as 65+ with underlying conditions stay at home.

CDC also has advised against airline travel.

I truly wish everyone would remember a virus is transmitted via viral load.  The droplets - the load - decreases the further it must travel.  The likelihood of developing into COVID is a function of load and time.  A lower load received over a longer period of time has a similar effect as being past an infected person walking in a grocery store.  That is one of the problems of cruising.  Another being on a cruise you have time for the virus to develop, while flying you are far away from a plane or (worse) the terminals.

[jimbo5544]

1 hour ago, PhillyFan33579 said:

I am slowly starting to accept the likelihood that the cruise industry we knew prior to COVID-19 in the US is gone for good. My biggest concern right now is hoping Florida remains open like it is right now so you can still have some resemblance of a life here.
 

I understand the science view that wants to shut everything down. However, it is obvious a significant number of people, if not the majority of people, in this country will never go for that. I think that is the part a lot of people are missing. This country was founded and built upon the concept of freedom. Having a government telling you what you can and can’t do, even if it is supported by scientific data, is not what this country is about. 

Well said 

[Doggielover68]

6 hours ago, Cruising_Addict said:

Because someone is more likely to catch the virus on a cruise ship, where they can socially distance from other people, than on a plane where they can’t?  Riiiiiiight. 

The issue is that you're essentially living on that ship and traveling to multiple countries. Once one person tests positive on that ship, they will probably lock down the whole section, maybe the whole ship for the duration of the cruise and you can be sure they won't go to any ports. You have to think about the crew too. The ship is their home for months and they are the ones cleaning the rooms, the dishes, dumping your trash, etc. Their lives matter too and they shouldn't have to risk their lives so you can have a vacation. 

 

I so desperately want to go back to traveling, trust me. But the pandemic is totally out of control in the US and it will be some time before countries want us back. 

[Butterbean1000]

5 hours ago, BlerkOne said:

It's true, believe it or not!!!!!!!!!!!

Not necessarily.  My adult son that lives with us came down with it. My husband and I did not. He has his own bathroom and bedroom of course, but he uses the same living areas and kitchen. 

[Butterbean1000]

4 hours ago, firefly333 said:

I havent found a place here I can eat inside, though I'm sure there must be a ihop or something open, just not right around me. Fast food like taco bell you can walk into but not eat here. 

 

Far as I'm concerned I'm still locked down. 

Here in Georgia, we're wide open.  Life is going on as usual.  There is no statewide mandate for masks, but most places require them.  We are doing very well down here. 

 

Edit- movie theaters are still closed.  No great loss. 😜

Edited October 26, 2020 by Butterbean1000

[ontheweb]

3 hours ago, firefly333 said:

Or perhaps the cdc should be closed as power hungry and political themselves. You can look at it both ways. They have started to enjoy the limelight and cruises is all they have power over. 

 

Lots of things have risk. The problem is they dont say disney has risk, they only speak of cruises. They are ununbiased but power hungry. Get off tv. If they were even handed and spoke of other things I wouldnt say fire them all, they are biased particularly against cruises.

Why do people keep bringing up that the CDC does nothing about Disney when they have no control over Disney?

[nocl]

5 hours ago, Cruising_Addict said:

Um, it’s not true. You can’t stay 6 feet away from other people on a plane. And airlines are not testing everyone immediately before boarding. If you are not hearing about outbreaks on planes it’s only because by the time people get diagnosed, they have been in public in so many places that it’s impossible to ascertain exactly when or where they got infected. But I guarantee it is definitely happening. If cruise ships can’t sail than all planes should have been grounded for this whole time as well.

No but fairly extensive tests have been done on particle distribution on modern aircraft, including a recent one for DOD. If all passengers are masked the odds a viral particles reaching another passengers breathing area is quite low.  Airplanes have two things going for them,  1. the air flow is from the top of the cabin, to the floor of the cabin so as a result particles, even microscopic ones are pulled downward away from other passengers breathing space.  The second is the rate of air exchange.  The recent study tested how long particles remain in a cabin and found after running multiple tests on multiple plans that the particles are cleared within 6 minutes this compares to about 90 minutes for the same clearance in a standard home.

https://www.stripes.com/news/us/dod-study-says-coronavirus-transmission-risk-on-a-crowded-airplane-with-people-wearing-masks-is-low-1.648730

That said the risk is higher if passenger violate the rules and remove their masks.  The risk is also higher during boarding when the aircraft ventilations and filtering systems are not running.

 

[ontheweb]

2 hours ago, PhillyFan33579 said:

I don’t disagree with your comment, but I think that train has left the station. Fauci even stated the other day that he didn’t think a shutdown was the answer. Not that he doesn’t think it is a good idea, but that most Americans have reached their limit with their virus (I think he used the word fatigue or something similar). 

And fatigue is one of the symptoms of this virus.

[firefly333]

I just listened to a cheery canadian cruising guy named  Bruce who thinks if we go another 6 or 7 months with no cruises the cruiselines go under. He thinks cruisers are already getting fed up with rolling over fccs and dont want more. 

 

Add in europe staggering numbers and he thinks this hasn't really hit the 3rd world countries, and could be a bomb going off, no matter if we wear masks or social distance here. Had a few comments on travelling from Canada how it's ok to fly out and in, but cant drive over the border, just fly and quarantine coming back in even with a negative test. Maybe it's easier to track you flying is why you can fly but not drive across the border.

 

Very down day for cruisers imo. I too am worried cruiselines going bankrupt. 

[BlerkOne]

14 minutes ago, foodsvcmgr said:

Agreed Phillyfan!

In view of the CDC intransigence on this topic and the strong possibility of a Biden win, the cruise lines should be seriously negotiating suitable foreign embarkation ports for various itineraries that previously originated in the US.

Though quite challenging to do in many cases and nearly impossible in some, just waiting for CDC approval without a plan “B” seems unwise.

 

It is impossible for things to get much worse.

 

It won't do cruise lines any good to change to foreign embarkation ports, if Americans aren't allowed to enter or enter without restrictions. That immediately rules out cruisers without passports, too. The logistics for the foreign ports in terms of supplies or healthcare boggles the mind. The better choice would be to write the US off and move and market xruises to other countries.

[xDisconnections]

2 hours ago, firefly333 said:

I dont think ever the same. Rcl is doing patents on bracelets that trace your movements like big brother, and masks. Galveston terminal spent 90k on things to protect from covid. Ships are doing laundry in hotter water, changing buffets, changing air filters and on and on.

 

These changes wouldnt disappear. App to order your dinner from a code or order a drink onboard. Tech doesnt disappear, ... and I wouldnt be surprised to see these bracelets stay that track your movements on the ship. Might give them good marketing info some beard will think. 

 

I just want it to survive. 

 

Ocean Medallion was designed to accomplish that -- build a massive database of guest preferences and drive revenue. Data mining is too valuable to leave on the table.

Edited October 27, 2020 by xDisconnections

[Susan in Maine]

I get that people want to cruise - I do too.

 

I also get that passengers can, to a certain extent, be careful and have SOME social distancing.

 

But what about the crew? Do we care so little for them that it's OK for them to risk their lives so we can go on a cruise?

[firefly333]

18 minutes ago, Susan in Maine said:

I get that people want to cruise - I do too.

 

I also get that passengers can, to a certain extent, be careful and have SOME social distancing.

 

But what about the crew? Do we care so little for them that it's OK for them to risk their lives so we can go on a cruise?

You can say that about grocery store employees, or any employees, they have the choice to be employed. I bet most would rather have the income than not. Not all mingle with passengers. 

 

That guy I was listening to earlier, agree with him. We can social distance, wear masks, shelter in place, but it's coming in on planes every day. Unless you are willing to close all borders, it will keep spreading. Cruises speeding it are a drop in a bucket, along with planes flying in from other countries. Its worldwide now.,

 

The guys I meet with Friday nights, the host is like well he's immune now, he got it and recovered. And hes a tech guy they called back to work in his office. Why is he different than the crew you dont want to work?

 

Sorry but masks and social distancing arent stopping the spread. And who is willing to close our borders. el paso wouldnt be at 400% increase if it wasnt sitting on the mexican border. Canada closed its border to us, would you be for closing the border to mexico? Probably not, which means masks and distancing wouldnt stop it. 

 

The world has changed forever as someone noted earlier.

[PhillyFan33579]

32 minutes ago, Susan in Maine said:

I get that people want to cruise - I do too.

 

I also get that passengers can, to a certain extent, be careful and have SOME social distancing.

 

But what about the crew? Do we care so little for them that it's OK for them to risk their lives so we can go on a cruise?

I keep in touch with dozens of crew members and most of them are having serious financial issues. No cruises for people on this board means the loss of a great vacation. No cruises for crew members means the loss of their livelihood. 

[ray98]

2 hours ago, Susan in Maine said:

 

 

But what about the crew? Do we care so little for them that it's OK for them to risk their lives so we can go on a cruise?

 

Huh?  We have a large percentage of the population right here in the US in public facing jobs who have went to work every day since this started.  The difference in my daily role between last December and any point since this hit is miniscule.  I have went to work just like normal since this started.  No shutdown, no work from home, no self isolating.....just an essential job in public safety that carried on just like the day before.

 

Right now we have people shouldering the risk for others, down to the high school teen working the checkout at the local grocery store.  People don't get to live in a bubble without support.  Someone provides police services, someone keeps the electricity on, the water flowing, the grocery shelves stocked, the truckers moving the products.  Now we have jobs such as personal shopping and home delivery booming.  If you are able to shut your life down and stay away from everyone it is because someone else is shouldering your risk.

[xDisconnections]

2 hours ago, Susan in Maine said:

But what about the crew? Do we care so little for them that it's OK for them to risk their lives so we can go on a cruise?

If they aren't comfortable working with the public, perhaps there are alternate career options available? Nobody is forcing them to work for a cruise line. It's a choice they make.

[BlerkOne]

34 minutes ago, ray98 said:

 

Huh?  We have a large percentage of the population right here in the US in public facing jobs who have went to work every day since this started.  The difference in my daily role between last December and any point since this hit is miniscule.  I have went to work just like normal since this started.  No shutdown, no work from home, no self isolating.....just an essential job in public safety that carried on just like the day before.

 

Right now we have people shouldering the risk for others, down to the high school teen working the checkout at the local grocery store.  People don't get to live in a bubble without support.  Someone provides police services, someone keeps the electricity on, the water flowing, the grocery shelves stocked, the truckers moving the products.  Now we have jobs such as personal shopping and home delivery booming.  If you are able to shut your life down and stay away from everyone it is because someone else is shouldering your risk.

 

Right now we have health care front line workers dying trying to take care of all, including those who are too selfish to take a few precautions to protect others. Very sad.

 

[BlerkOne]

2 hours ago, firefly333 said:

Sorry but masks and social distancing arent stopping the spread. And who is willing to close our borders. el paso wouldnt be at 400% increase if it wasnt sitting on the mexican border. Canada closed its border to us, would you be for closing the border to mexico? Probably not, which means masks and distancing wouldnt stop it. 

 

 

Masks and social distancing do slow down the virus and would save many thousands of lives. Period.

[ray98]

15 minutes ago, BlerkOne said:

 

Right now we have health care front line workers dying trying to take care of all, including those who are too selfish to take a few precautions to protect others. Very sad.

 

 

We also have people dying who go to work every day to enable those who choose to seclude themselves; from fire fighters, to sanitation workers, Instacart drivers to grocery store stockers.  Those who sit at home and point fingers can only do so because someone is willing to shoulder their risk, go out into the world daily, and keep whatever services and necessities flowing to the critics.  A large portion of the population is in this daily, it is nothing but chance.

[skridge]

4 hours ago, ray98 said:

 

We also have people dying who go to work every day to enable those who choose to seclude themselves; from fire fighters, to sanitation workers, Instacart drivers to grocery store stockers.  Those who sit at home and point fingers can only do so because someone is willing to shoulder their risk, go out into the world daily, and keep whatever services and necessities flowing to the critics.  A large portion of the population is in this daily, it is nothing but chance.

It is amazing how the narrative continues to change with some people , but never do they blame the maskless freedom warriors.  You all are now blaming the people who have worn masks the entire time and done things that if everyone in this country would have done back in March we would be in a lot better shape right now.  That is a very delusional way of looking at things.

[firefly333]

4 hours ago, BlerkOne said:

 

Masks and social distancing do slow down the virus and would save many thousands of lives. Period.

Of course it helps. The quote you are using says el paso. They have asked people to stay home for 2 weeks, set a curfew, a 250 fine if caught not wearing a mask etc. I said it wasnt enough there. I didnt say dont do it.

 

My parents are 94 and 102 so you can bet they are still sheltering in place since this started. They are lucky to be living in their own home. I noticed last night our local newspaper had a article listing the senior places that had covid cases. 

[kdr69]

13 hours ago, PhillyFan33579 said:

At the moment Fauci has his hands full just trying to get people to wear masks and social distance. Unbelievable that a virus may kill more Americans than wars just because people won't follow simple instructions.

Had a page long reply to this lol but i deleted it (sorry Philly but mask "wearing" is not the issue).  As the CC Monitor said its very hard to not turn this thread into a COVID thread. I think everything we talk about is a COVID thread these days.  So I will bite my tongue again.  

[Sunshine3601]

14 hours ago, PhillyFan33579 said:

Good post with lots of good points.  The issue I have with the CDC, and I have had it for a long time, is how they have focused on the cruise industry but not other forms of transportation that bring people into close contact with each other for a significant amount of time. 

I believe the cdc continues to focus on all the issues the cruise ships had across the globe in feb and mar.  A lot of travelers that disembarked had the virus and carried to many places while traveling home.  Plus the quarantines on ships were not handled well.   And the time and expense it took to handle those outbreaks.     Of course social distancing with masks and testing was non existent at that time.

Yes, exposure is possible anywhere you go but the fact you are technically living with 1000 to 2500 with reduced capacity and ventilation/hvac systems is a lot different on a ship then visiting disney.

I have no issue with protocols in place for ships sailing in europe but still have concerns with ventilation systems while in my cabin