Well this a good first step cdc lifts ban kind of

[bikerunner]

https://www.miamiherald.com/news/business/tourism-cruises/article246754076.html
 

now just need to see the protocols officially in place. But it’s a good first step moving forward. It’s in the cruise lines hands now 

Edited October 30, 2020 by bikerunner

[verizon]

Good news I just bought RCL

time to get back in.

[wrk2cruise]

https://www.cdc.gov/quarantine/pdf/CDC-Conditional-Sail-Order_10_30_2020-p.pdf

 

Just started reading but looks like it's for crew only with subsequent orders at a later date after they demonstrate capabilities with crew only sailings.

 

[jg51]

Elsewhere, danv3 said:
    Lots of details to unpack: https://www.cdc.gov/quarantine/pdf/CDC-Conditional-Sail-Order_10_30_2020-p.pdf
    One I noted right away was that this "conditional sailing order" is in effect until November 2021.  No cruises longer than 7 days are allowed.  Cruise operator must conduct testing at embarkation and disembarkation.  

 

Elsewhere, chengkp75 said:
    A couple of large hurdles.  One, the cruise lines must get port approval for the number of ships per day, and agreements with local health care providers and facilities for quarantine in order to call at that port.  Two, any ship that has left US waters in the last 6 months, must submit the EDC (Enhanced Data Collection) form for the crew for the 28 days prior to re-entering US waters, and I don't know if the cruise lines have kept up with this with their ships all over the globe. Then, they have to do some simulated cruises, get approval from them, and then they can start "restricted" cruises.

[Gracie115]

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/10/30/cruise-stocks-rise-as-cdc-eases-covid-sailing-restrictions-on-industry.html

[BigAl94]

No they haven't - it expired

[Fouremco]

3 minutes ago, BigAl94 said:

No they haven't - it expired

They replaced it with a Conditional Sail Order: https://www.cdc.gov/quarantine/pdf/CDC-Conditional-Sail-Order_10_30_2020-p.pdf

[Arizona Wildcat]

3 minutes ago, BigAl94 said:

No they haven't - it expired

BigAl - did you read the article?  The CDC did indeed put in place new restrictions for sailing.

[jg51]

Some CrCr members have believed that CDC wanted to extend its no-sail order for four months, from September 30 forward -- instead of just one month (through October 31).  There is no mention of this in the new document.  Instead, a rationale for not imposing a new/extended no-sail order today is expressed in the following CDC words:

 

An "alternative considered was continuing to issue No Sail Orders as occurred between March 14 and September 30, 2020. However, this alternative was not found to be as optimal as the current [i.e., new] framework. The benefits of this framework outweigh the costs of not allowing cruise ships to sail because it allows for flexibility where cruise ships have taken the necessary precautions to mitigate risk, while continuing to prohibit passenger operations onboard ships that have failed to implement such precautions.

 

"As such, the current [i.e., new] framework represents a tailored approach that was determined to be preferable to the status quo No Sail Order. This framework allows for individual cruise lines to progress through phases at variable paces. This enables cruise lines successfully implementing public health measures to return to passenger operations more quickly while others by necessity may move more slowly. The framework not only encourages cruise lines that are more successful at mitigating the spread of COVID-19 but provides a realistic timeline that anticipates COVID-19 continuing to be present and affecting cruise ship travel."

.

Edited October 30, 2020 by jg51

[Baron Barracuda]

CDC document is a very difficult read, 40 pages of commandments from on high which must be followed to the letter.  

[cangelmd]

6 minutes ago, Baron Barracuda said:

CDC document is a very difficult read, 40 pages of commandments from on high which must be followed to the letter.  

Welcome to my world!

[jg51]

A bit more important info from the CDC document:

 

"CDC intends to take a phased approach to resuming passenger operations. These phases include:

     (1) establishment of laboratory testing of crew onboard cruise ships in U.S. waters;

     (2) simulated voyages designed to test a cruise ship operators’ ability to mitigate COVID -19 on cruise ships;

     (3) a certification process; and

     (4) a return to passenger voyages in a manner that mitigates the risk of COVID-19 introduction, transmission, or spread among passengers and crew onboard ships and ashore to communities.

 

These phases will be further determined based on public health considerations including the trajectory of COVID-19 transmission and the demonstrated ability of cruise ship operators to successfully employ measures that mitigate the risk of COVID-19."

[cruisemom42]

9 minutes ago, Baron Barracuda said:

CDC document is a very difficult read, 40 pages of commandments from on high which must be followed to the letter.  

 

And you think that is a lot to govern operations of a large, modern sea-going vessel carrying on average 3,000-4,000 passengers and half as many crew?

 

If the cruise lines personnel responsible for these areas can't follow that guidance, then I can assure you they have the wrong people in those jobs.

[bikerunner]

1 minute ago, jg51 said:

A bit more important info from the CDC document:

 

"CDC intends to take a phased approach to resuming passenger operations. These phases include:

     (1) establishment of laboratory testing of crew onboard cruise ships in U.S. waters;

     (2) simulated voyages designed to test a cruise ship operators’ ability to mitigate COVID -19 on cruise ships;

     (3) a certification process; and

     (4) a return to passenger voyages in a manner that mitigates the risk of COVID-19 introduction, transmission, or spread among passengers and crew onboard ships and ashore to communities.

 

These phases will be further determined based on public health considerations including the trajectory of COVID-19 transmission and the demonstrated ability of cruise ship operators to successfully employ measures that mitigate the risk of COVID-19."

As it should be.  The lifted order is not just go still lots of steps to take place but it’s a step forward.  Now we will see what the protocols will be officially from the cruise lines.  But now we will see plans officially not just guesswork 

[wrk2cruise]

I still doubt we will see protocols at the detail level we all want, particularly wrt isolation, quarantine, disembarkation in a foreign port, private transportation etc.  I think we will hear that this is all in place "trust us".   Plus these non-revenue cruises are to demonstrate/fine tune the protocols so I doubt we will see much more detail than the Healthy Sail Panel recommendations.

[TeeRick]

A baby step forward is still a step forward.  

[jg51]

Interestingly, the CDC document calls for "simulated voyages" with "volunteer passengers."  One could speculate that the volunteers could be employees of the cruise lines or simply members of the general public.  Here is the key passage:

 

 "(a) As a condition of applying for a COVID-19 Conditional Sailing Certificate, a cruise ship operator must have successfully conducted a simulated voyage or series of simulated voyages demonstrating the cruise ship operator’s ability to mitigate the risks of COVID-19 onboard its cruise ship. A simulated voyage must meet the following requirements:

     (1) The cruise ship operators shall inform volunteer passengers in writing that they are participating in a simulation of unproven and untested health and safety protocols for purposes of simulating a cruise ship voyage and that sailing during a pandemic is an inherently risky activity.
 

     (2) All volunteer passengers must be at least eighteen years old or older. The cruise ship operator must also obtain from all volunteer passengers a written certification from a healthcare provider that the volunteer passenger has no pre-existing medical conditions that would place that individual at high risk for COVID-19 as determined through CDC guidance. CDC may issue additional requirements through technical instructions or orders relating to a cruise ship operator’s obligation to screen for volunteer passengers who may be at high risk for COVID-19.
 

     (3) The cruise ship operator must conduct any simulation on a consensual basis and not as a condition of employment or in exchange for consideration or future reward. The cruise ship operator must document the informed consent of all participants in writing.

     (4) The cruise ship operator must embark additional crew members beyond safe minimum manning levels only as determined through CDC technical instructions or orders.
 

     (5) The cruise ship operator must design and conduct a simulated voyage insofar as practicable to test the efficacy of the cruise ship operator’s ability to mitigate the risks of COVID-19 onboard its cruise ship.

     (6) The cruise ship operator must conduct a monitored observation period and laboratorytesting of volunteer passengers, as directed in CDC technical instructions or orders, prior to embarking volunteer passengers on a simulated voyage.

     (7) A simulated voyage must include the following simulated activities:
         (i) embarkation and disembarkation procedures, including terminal check-in,  
         (ii) on board activities, including at dining and entertainment venues,
         (iii) private island shore excursions, if any are planned during restricted passenger voyages,
         (iv) evacuation procedures,
         (v) transfer of symptomatic passengers or crew, or those who test positive for SARS
-CoV-2, from cabins to isolation rooms,  
         (vi) quarantine of all remaining passengers and non-essential crew, and
         (vii) other activities as may be listed in CDC technical instructions and orders.

     (8) The cruise ship operator must meet standards for hand hygiene, face coverings, and social distancing for passengers and crew, as well as ship sanitation, as may be required by CDC technical instructions or orders.
 

     (9) The cruise ship operator must modify meal service and entertainment venues to facilitate social distancing during the simulated voyage.
 

     (10) The cruise ship operator must conduct laboratory testing of all passengers and crew on the day of embarkation and the day of disembarkation as required by CDC technicalinstructions or orders. Laboratory test results must be available prior to passengers embarking and prior to passengers and crew departing for their final destinations after disembarking the ship. Crew and passengers must also be laboratory tested again post
-disembarkation as required by CDC technical instructions or orders. Based on public health considerations, CDC may also require additional laboratory testing of passengers and crew and reporting of results, including during a voyage, as required by CDC technical instructions or orders.
 

     (11) The cruise ship operator must immediately conduct laboratory testing of any passengers and crew who report illness consistent with COVID-19 during the simulated voyage with rapid point-of-care results as required by CDC technical instructions or orders.  Identified close contacts of cases must also be laboratory tested with rapid point of care results.
 

     (12) CDC may require the cruise ship operator to immediately end the simulated voyage and take other action to protect the health and safety of volunteer passengers and crew if COVID-19 is detected during the simulation.  
 

     (13) The cruise ship operator must document any deficiencies in its health and safety protocols through an “after-action” report and address how the cruise ship operator intends to address those deficiencies prior to applying for a COVID-19 Conditional Sailing Certificate. This after-action report must also include test results for any volunteer passengers or crew on the simulated voyage. The after-action report must be submitted to the CDC as soon as practicable at the end of the simulation and as part of the cruise ship operator’s application for a COVID-19 Conditional Sailing Certificate.

     (14) Based on CDC’s review of the after-action report and/or cruise ship operator’s application for a COVID-19 Conditional Sailing Certificate, CDC may request that the cruiseship operator modify its practices or procedures and/or engage in additional simulated voyages prior to the issuance of the COVID-19 Conditional Sailing Certificate."

.

Edited October 30, 2020 by jg51

[Gracie115]

33 minutes ago, BigAl94 said:

No they haven't - it expired

 

Read the new guidelines

[cruisemom42]

7 minutes ago, wrk2cruise said:

I still doubt we will see protocols at the detail level we all want, particularly wrt isolation, quarantine, disembarkation in a foreign port, private transportation etc.  I think we will hear that this is all in place "trust us".   Plus these non-revenue cruises are to demonstrate/fine tune the protocols so I doubt we will see much more detail than the Healthy Sail Panel recommendations.

 

Perhaps, but cruiselines WILL have to obtain that certificate that is mentioned, and it certainly appears that there will be a number of requirements they must meet to get it.

[Fouremco]

8 minutes ago, jg51 said:

Interestingly, the CDC document calls for "simulated voyages" with "volunteer passengers."  One could speculate that the volunteers could be employees of the cruise lines or simply members of the general public.  Here is the key passage:

What point are you trying to make?

[cruisequeen4ever]

It does sound like there’s still a long road ahead, but at least we are moving in the right direction. They’re definitely being careful. 

[bikerunner]

2 minutes ago, cruisequeen4ever said:

It does sound like there’s still a long road ahead, but at least we are moving in the right direction. They’re definitely being careful. 

The main thing is now it’s in cruise lines hands and start seeing actual plans come out. 

[hcat]

Hope it all works out....

[Oceangoer2]

4 minutes ago, hcat said:

Hope it all works out....

And that it all works out before my Nov. '21 cruise...I'd like to think that it will be smooth sailing by then.

[Gracie115]

Read deep enough into the document and you will also see stipulated, no cruises longer than 7 days.  On page 32.

Edited October 30, 2020 by Gracie115