Is is possible for both camps (Fla and the CDC) concerning medical privacy and cruising to work towards a compromise?

[SmoothFlying]

Or is there no middle ground. With so much at stake and so much spent, in time and funds, too get the upper hand on this situation. I, for one, would hate that we have come this far only to lose what gains we've accomplished, Surely there can be some form of mutual agreement found which will let us take the next step this summer. What do you think ?

 

Mac

[CruiserBruce]

Asking your vaccination status IS NOT a HIPPA violation as you are voluntarily giving the info. If your doctor, insurance company or other medical provider gave your vax status out without your consent, that would be a violation.

 

Otherwise, it is a political situation. Face saving will be required.

[mnocket]

There's an even larger disconnect between Fla and the cruise lines themselves.  Many (all?) cruise lines are headed down the path of requiring all passengers to be vaccinated.  Unless Fla relents on their ban on businesses requiring proof of vaccination, the cruise lines can't enforce their policy.  Fla has a choice....  abandon the cruise industry or backtrack on their policy.  I don't think there's much doubt about which coarse they will take.  As @CruiserBrucepointed out, this is now basically a face saving exercise.

[chengkp75]

I fully expect the Florida ban on vaccination proof to be struck down, not only for cruise lines, but for all Florida businesses, since being vaccinated or not is not a protected class, so any private business can set any requirements for customers that they want.

[slidergirl]

Gov. DeSantis knows he's playing a game of chicken with the cruise lines.  He won't blink.  It's going to have to go to court for his EO to be struck down.  I believe he knows he EO will be struck down, so he's willing to hold firm - he can then say "hey, I tried, but the Radical Socialist Left hoodwinked the Court to get rid of my order." 

[ilikeanswers]

I'm a little confused, I read some articles that said the Florida vaccine rule cannot be applied to cruise ships while others say it can be applied to cruise ships. Does anyone actually know😳? 

[njhorseman]

8 minutes ago, ilikeanswers said:

I'm a little confused, I read some articles that said the Florida vaccine rule cannot be applied to cruise ships while others say it can be applied to cruise ships. Does anyone actually know😳? 

Opinions of well-qualified lawyers appear to be overwhelmingly on the side of the Florida rule not being applicable to cruise ships because under the US Constitution federal law, not state law, governs international and interstate commerce.

The governor however insists the rule is applicable to cruise ships.

It may come down to the courts deciding.

[ilikeanswers]

14 minutes ago, njhorseman said:

Opinions of well-qualified lawyers appear to be overwhelmingly on the side of the Florida rule not being applicable to cruise ships because under the US Constitution federal law, not state law, governs international and interstate commerce.

The governor however insists the rule is applicable to cruise ships.

It may come down to the courts deciding.

 

That explains the contradictory reporting, sounds like things will get messy😬. 

[ontheweb]

7 hours ago, njhorseman said:

Opinions of well-qualified lawyers appear to be overwhelmingly on the side of the Florida rule not being applicable to cruise ships because under the US Constitution federal law, not state law, governs international and interstate commerce.

The governor however insists the rule is applicable to cruise ships.

It may come down to the courts deciding.

Instead of may come down to the courts deciding, it would be more accurate to say WILL come down to the courts deciding. The only other outcome is for Florida to back down as cruise lines say that enforcing it will mean they will pull their ships from Florida, but DeSantis does not seem the type who backs down easily.

[Joebucks]

Beyond the opinion of internet lawyers, even particularly "clear" laws can often be "interpreted" a different way. It will be interesting to see where it ends.

[evandbob]

IMO, it's amazing that a conservative politician who would normally decry the "radical" nanny state now sees fit to tell private businesses how to operate.

 

DeSantis has indeed painted himself into a corner, but when the courts rule against him, he will announce himself a victor, just like his idol did with every bankruptcy and adverse justice ruling he suffered.

[ilikeanswers]

25 minutes ago, evandbob said:

IMO, it's amazing that a conservative politician who would normally decry the "radical" nanny state now sees fit to tell private businesses how to operate.

 

DeSantis has indeed painted himself into a corner, but when the courts rule against him, he will announce himself a victor, just like his idol did with every bankruptcy and adverse justice ruling he suffered.

😂

[bigrednole]

17 hours ago, slidergirl said:

Gov. DeSantis knows he's playing a game of chicken with the cruise lines.  He won't blink.  It's going to have to go to court for his EO to be struck down.  I believe he knows he EO will be struck down, so he's willing to hold firm - he can then say "hey, I tried, but the Radical Socialist Left hoodwinked the Court to get rid of my order." 

I don't think DeSantis is playing with the cruise lines...it is the CDC. He will have to make a choice if FL wins against the CDC. The CSO can be shutdown, but the cruise lines self requiring vaccination could force them to other US ports. I don't think DeSantis has any leverage or gamesmanship with the cruise lines. Fix it or lose the cruise business. 

[rkacruiser]

16 hours ago, njhorseman said:

It may come down to the courts deciding.

 

And, that could take a very long time with appeal after appeal.....

 

3 hours ago, slidergirl said:

  DeSantis will never admit he is wrong on this   

 

His view mirrors the views of another well known Florida resident et al who live elsewhere in these United States.  

[songbird1329]

DeSantis filed suit against the CDC, but interesting that the cruise lines didn’t join the suit.

 

Most of the cruise lines seem to want to go the vaccination route, Carnival being the noteworthy exception. Norwegian even threatened to pull its ships from Florida.

 

DeSantis is probably going to lose the suit against the CDC.  
 

it’s not just an executive order, the Florida legislature enacted a law banning private companies from asking for proof of vaccination.   Other states have executive orders prohibiting the government from asking, but the executive  orders of other states do not extend to private companies.  Do federal mandates supersede Florida law?   If DeSantis doesn’t back down, it will be a federal court case...can he afford to lose twice?

[capriccio]

According to a Sun Sentinel article this evening (https://www.sun-sentinel.com/business/fl-bz-florida-cdc-suit-goes-to-mediator-20210519-yu5wgqmcpnaetileu6ga25nuqm-story.html?utm_source=onesignal&utm_medium=notification&utm_campaign=2021-05-18-Suit-against-CD) Judge refers Florida’s cruise line suit against CDC to mediator.

 

Highlights:

• A Tampa federal judge overseeing the state’s civil case against the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention referred the matter to a mediator Tuesday with instructions to hear the positions of both sides before June 1.
• Recap of last weeks hearing:  Lawyers from the Florida attorney general’s office argued the agency overstepped its authority by imposing a multi-step process for cruise lines to safely resume operating from U.S. ports after more than year of no service...Justice Department lawyers countered that the state has no authority to dictate when and where the companies can resume service. In court papers, government lawyers also said the state had allowed an entire year to pass without taking any action.
• The judge also allowed the American Society of Travel Advisors, a Washington-based trade group of travel agents, to file a friend of the court brief to support the state’s argument about economic damages suffered by the industry and communities outside Florida.

[songbird1329]

46 minutes ago, capriccio said:

According to a Sun Sentinel article this evening (https://www.sun-sentinel.com/business/fl-bz-florida-cdc-suit-goes-to-mediator-20210519-yu5wgqmcpnaetileu6ga25nuqm-story.html?utm_source=onesignal&utm_medium=notification&utm_campaign=2021-05-18-Suit-against-CD) Judge refers Florida’s cruise line suit against CDC to mediator.

 

Highlights:

• A Tampa federal judge overseeing the state’s civil case against the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention referred the matter to a mediator Tuesday with instructions to hear the positions of both sides before June 1.
• Recap of last weeks hearing:  Lawyers from the Florida attorney general’s office argued the agency overstepped its authority by imposing a multi-step process for cruise lines to safely resume operating from U.S. ports after more than year of no service...Justice Department lawyers countered that the state has no authority to dictate when and where the companies can resume service. In court papers, government lawyers also said the state had allowed an entire year to pass without taking any action.
• The judge also allowed the American Society of Travel Advisors, a Washington-based trade group of travel agents, to file a friend of the court brief to support the state’s argument about economic damages suffered by the industry and communities outside Florida.

yeah, the  judge punted.

[ontheweb]

7 hours ago, songbird1329 said:

yeah, the  judge punted.

I guess that is one way of looking at what was done. Another way would be that the judge hoped that the parties to the lawsuit could reach an amicable settlement.

[donaldsc]

deleted

Edited May 20, 2021 by donaldsc