Are Cruise lines killing cruising ?

[Hlitner]

3 minutes ago, rkacruiser said:

 

....................

May I change your statement to fit me?  I would like to continue to cruise and am willing to pay for the best quality possible.  The cruise line makes no difference--if they can meet my expectation for that quality for which I am paying.  

Hear Hear!

[Mary229]

I don’t think there is anything normal about the current pricing.  It will rise but for now is artificially  suppressed by lack of strong demand.  I recall some of you recognizing early on that travel would become expensive.  If you paid the same rate as 2020 and got the same superior product consider yourself fortunate to have enjoyed a brief window of opportunity.  
 

Personally I prefer to pay more for the expected experience rather than being offered a lesser product.  I withhold judgement on which lines will be where and do what until we have a normalized market  

[Cruzaholic41]

The lines I have found most consistently great over the years have been Viking Ocean (through still relatively new), Windstar, and Celebrity expeditionary cruises. Frankly, I think most others have taken a downturn. And it’s not just the easy target mass market lines. Oceania worsened when they became part of NCL - so much so that I no longer cruise them. The jury is still out on Azamara since their change. 
 

 

[Covepointcruiser]

Actually cruising has been on a downward spiral since Carnival came on the scene.   Of course in the early sixties only the wealthy cruised, now there are lines for the middle and even lower classes.   Some recent cruises have sold for less than $73 per day per person.   You won’t get much quality at that price point but the multitudes will love the experience.   In the sixties cruises were expensive but were staffed by crew from their home countries, I.e. Italian Line, Italians, French Lines, French citizens etc.   It cost a lot more to pay the staff when they didn’t rely on impoverished countries for their staff.   Service was good but it is excellent now.  Food was great but you didn’t have the choices you have now.   No theater, except for movies, but there was a ballroom and orchestra.   No shows, but good singers (I remember Robert Goulet and Sammy Davis on some sailings).   Deck chairs were reserved at the start of the voyage and your names was on your chair fro the sailing, no chair hogs.   Yes, cruising has gone downhill but it started in the early seventies.    I’d like to go back to those days for a voyage or two.

[Keksie]

I just want a cruise line that has no masks at any point, no having to prove vaccinations, no testing, no constant upselling,  and no bum's rush on the last morning.  Then we will think about booking again.  

[pris993]

If you are not getting what you want or expect do something different!  

 

[Mary229]

16 minutes ago, pris993 said:

If you are not getting what you want or expect do something different!  

 

Exactly, we are going to finish our few bucket list cruises and if things don’t shape up we are moving on to other forms of travel.  We now travel by cruise for in-depth itineraries and even were considering cruising as our primary method of travel.  Well that is probably not going to be the way going forward.  There are three long cruises booked and the third may or may not happen. 

[rkacruiser]

1 hour ago, Covepointcruiser said:

Actually cruising has been on a downward spiral since Carnival came on the scene.

 

Let's keep dumping on Carnival!  I am tired of this!  One does realize that Carnival's acquiring and providing money for new ships for HAL kept HAL alive?  CCL's financial pockets have benefited every one of their brands.  Have mistakes been made?  Yes.  (Ask Ford Motor Company about the Edsel.)  Pointing a sole finger on a single entity for an issue is usually not realistic.  

 

1 hour ago, Covepointcruiser said:

Yes, cruising has gone downhill but it started in the early seventies.

 

Not in my experience.  Yes, the seventies were a time of change from the kind of experience that you described on ships of the 1950's and 1960's (and even earlier).  Table side preparation of a flaming Crepes Suzette or a Caesar Salad, on deck buffets and BBQs:  those kinds of events got eliminated thanks to our "overly cautious"  USPH and USCG.  It was not because the cruise line chose to do so.  But, once gone, what's the incentive for them to bring them back?  If they could.  Such events had to be costly as well as inconvenient for the crew involved.  

[calliopecruiser]

People want things cheap, and then they want them cheaper - so many cruise lines have obliged.  Cruise prices are falling, or at least barely rising, over the last several decades -- all the while cruise line prices for goods and services have increased.  So, that means that they have no option but to spend less on each passenger for food, facilities, and amenities.   In the late 1980s, Carnival was offering a 3 day Caribbean getaway for about $325 per person; now, it a little under half that amount.  The cruise line that became Royal Caribbean had a week long Alaska cruise from Vancouver for $700 per person, but now that can be had for about $400-$450. 

 

If you want cruise lines to offer the level of service, facilities, and amenities they did 20 years ago, be prepared to spend more than you did 20 years ago, because the cruise line is spending more too.  Get off the mainline cruise ships that cater to those who want the lowest prices, and sail with another line who charges more, but offers more. 

[navybankerteacher]

5 hours ago, mnocket said:

This perfectly reflects my feelings as well.  Even before the pandemic things were slipping.  The pandemic may have not only accelerated the decline in service & value, but make it the new normal.  Things may never return to what they once were.

…

The mass market lines have adopted the mass marketing approach - with ever larger ships to fill, they need an ever larger market - and that almost unavoidably requires selling on the basis of price, not quality.   No one with any experience of the product a quarter century ago will think for a minute that the product has not been diluted.

 

Quality of food, level of service, enhancements such as live music have all been shaved to get the price down to a level where cruising becomes affordable to many more than the the socio-economic market which could afford it prior to year 2000.  
 

Mass market cruising simply is not (nor can it afford to be) the experience it used to be; those who want to have the sort of experience they valued years ago have to be willing to pay for it.

[jsn55]

10 hours ago, iancal said:

....and we are starting to spend our money elsewhere.

 

Cruising is just one of several good travel options that we consider.  Certainly not 'the be all and the end all'.

 

 If we perceive that the value is no longer present based on our preferences we will simply opt for some other travel product.

The issue for some of us is that the cruise lines have our money ... they've had it for years.  So we will cruise.  Fortunately, we both just make the best of nearly any situation so we'll enjoy it.  We've had two disasters with Viking and American Cruise Lines; otherwise we always manage to find the good parts of any trip.

[BruceMuzz]

Cruising has been on the decline since the Beatles broke up.

I fully blame Yoko Ono and John Lennon for all of this trouble.

[ldubs]

2 hours ago, navybankerteacher said:

The mass market lines have adopted the mass marketing approach - with ever larger ships to fill, they need an ever larger market - and that almost unavoidably requires selling on the basis of price, not quality.   No one with any experience of the product a quarter century ago will think for a minute that the product has not been diluted.

 

Quality of food, level of service, enhancements such as live music have all been shaved to get the price down to a level where cruising becomes affordable to many more than the the socio-economic market which could afford it prior to year 2000.  
 

Mass market cruising simply is not (nor can it afford to be) the experience it used to be; those who want to have the sort of experience they valued years ago have to be willing to pay for it.

 

You know, there is not one thing in your comments that I would disagree with.   Overall, the experience is a lot different.  I like the additional dining options that didn't exist 20 years ago.   Pre-pandemic, I would say the service was different but still pretty good.  At least nothing to complain about.  To me, the biggest change has been the decline in the quality of the food being served.  It is nothing like it was 20 years ago.  I am of course talking about the mass market lines.   Even acknowledging that, we still enjoy cruising.  

Edited August 10, 2022 by ldubs

[BirdTravels]

1 hour ago, jsn55 said:

The issue for some of us is that the cruise lines have our money ... they've had it for years.  So we will cruise.  Fortunately, we both just make the best of nearly any situation so we'll enjoy it.  We've had two disasters with Viking and American Cruise Lines; otherwise we always manage to find the good parts of any trip.

Cruising is wonderful. We'll be on our 7th post-restart cruise in a few weeks (and 2 more scheduled later this year). We have enjoyed each and every one of them. We were on Royal Caribbean's first restart cruise and it was a bit different. And NCL's first restart cruise which was nearly "normal". We're just enjoying the lighter loads on the ship (although our last two were at near double occupancy capacity). 

[Mike981]

18 hours ago, wcook said:

Im curious, is it possible that your tastes have improved rather than the food declining?

 

For us it is an absolute difference in food. We took our adult kids on a Carnival cruise and then DW and I did a Celebrity cruise a few months later, the MDR food was more similar than different. It was no where near what Celebrity MDR was twenty years earlier and we new that going in. It was still a bit of a surprise.  

 

15 hours ago, rkacruiser said:

 

Let's keep dumping on Carnival!

 

I have had coworkers who love to bash Walmart and then would do all of their shopping there. Some people just feel better when they complain.

[navybankerteacher]

At this point I see two basic reasons for cruising - one is having an enjoyable on board experience:  which essentially means something like Azamera or Oceania - which can be enhanced by a good itinerary.  The other is transportation - getting from one place to another: which means Cunard for a straight shot between Southampton and New York,  or, possibly, a repositioning on a not-grossly over-sized mass market vessel as a way for getting to Europe in the Spring or back in the Fall - possibly including interesting port calls en route.   I do not see cruising as a good way to experience seeing other areas - at last in my case when staying somewhere for a while is the best way to do it.

Edited August 10, 2022 by navybankerteacher

[navybankerteacher]

12 hours ago, BruceMuzz said:

Cruising has been on the decline since the Beatles broke up.

I fully blame Yoko Ono and John Lennon for all of this trouble.

I think you are mistaken:  it all started with Gavrilo Princip.

[rkacruiser]

3 hours ago, navybankerteacher said:

I do not see cruising as a good way to experience seeing other areas - at last in my case when staying somewhere for a while is the best way to do it.

 

In my opinion, cruising is a good way for many people to experience parts of the world that they otherwise would never visit.  The best way to really "get to know" an area is to be able to stay there for a period of time.  I agree.  By visiting the places that I have done during my cruises, I now know the few where I would like to return and spend more time.  

[Toofarfromthesea]

5 hours ago, Mike981 said:

I have had coworkers who love to bash Walmart and then would do all of their shopping there. Some people just feel better when they complain.

 

Especially when it enables them to look down their noses at those Carnival cruisers and Wal-mart shoppers, as if these are signs of some moral failure.

Edited August 10, 2022 by Toofarfromthesea

[Hlitner]

7 hours ago, navybankerteacher said:

At this point I see two basic reasons for cruising - one is having an enjoyable on board experience:  which essentially means something like Azamera or Oceania - which can be enhanced by a good itinerary.  The other is transportation - getting from one place to another: which means Cunard for a straight shot between Southampton and New York,  or, possibly, a repositioning on a not-grossly over-sized mass market vessel as a way for getting to Europe in the Spring or back in the Fall - possibly including interesting port calls en route.   I do not see cruising as a good way to experience seeing other areas - at last in my case when staying somewhere for a while is the best way to do it.

I will tell you something you might find "shocking."  We love lines like Azamara, Seabourn, the late Crystal, etc.  But we still also love to cruise on some large mass market ships.  So last August and October we cruised on Seabourn where everything is top class and wonderful (at least for us).  But in December we went in a normal balcony cabin on the Enchanted Princess and I loved my usual morning routine of sitting in the atrium near the International Cafe enjoying my cappuccino and pastry.  So while I agree with what you say about an enjoyable onboard experience, some of us can get that on a small luxury line or a large mass market line.  One has to simply adjust their expectations and go with the flow.  Life if Good!

 

I just posted that our next cruise (October) is on a 5000+ passenger mass market ship!  Then in December we will be on a 200 passenger luxury expedition ship!  We expect both cruises to be wonderful and completely different.  But that is exactly why we booked those two cruises.....because we love variety and can easily adjust our expectations.   Sometimes I think that many folks take themselves too serious (or is it seriously) and do not put aside their biases, expand their horizons, and simply enjoy life.   I still remember one newly found friend on a Seabourn cruise who loved to loudly tease me, "You cruise on Princess and MSC?  Keep your distance!"   He would also complain that he could not cruise on Princess because he did not fit in their showers (he was a very large man).

 

Hank

[wcook]

13 hours ago, Hlitner said:

You cruise on Princess and MSC?  Keep your distance

Funny thing is some of us view Princess as one of the hoity-toity lines 🙂
 

Random aside: Tony from the La Lido Loca YouTube channel is a big guy at 340-ish lbs. He shows off that he dies fit in cruse ship showers. 

Edited August 11, 2022 by wcook

[rkacruiser]

20 hours ago, Hlitner said:

So while I agree with what you say about an enjoyable onboard experience, some of us can get that on a small luxury line or a large mass market line.  One has to simply adjust their expectations and go with the flow.  Life if Good!

 

Yes!  

 

7 hours ago, wcook said:

Funny thing is some of us view Princess as one of the hoity-toity lines 🙂

 

What classification would you then place Silversea or Seabourn or Regent?  

[wcook]

13 minutes ago, rkacruiser said:

What classification would you then place Silversea or Seabourn or Regent?  

Uh, hoity-toity-er?

[iancal]

Cruise lines could do a lot more to engender loyalty by  instituting loyalty rewards that had real value.

 

On one of our first cruise we spoke to an older gentleman who had been wearing some sort of medal around his neck.  Clearly not an Olympic medal.  He told us it was a reward for so many cruises.

 

At the time I traveled extensively for business.  My spouse and I had many business class airline trips to Euope, NA, SA on mileage reward tickets.  And frequent upgrades on revenue tickets.  .  Not to mention gratis hotel stays on a few hotel reward sites.

 

As DW wryly commented to me later.....what would you rather have, what would gain your vendor loyalty.  A medal to hand around your neck, a free cruise, a cabin upgrade, or a reduced fare???

 

We sure missed those airline freebees one I retired and used them up. 

[ldubs]

3 hours ago, rkacruiser said:

 

Yes!  

 

 

What classification would you then place Silversea or Seabourn or Regent?  

 

3 hours ago, wcook said:

Uh, hoity-toity-er?

 

Worthy of Thurston Howell III and his wife Lovey?  😀

 

(just kidding).