Look Out....The Industry is going to have many more options

Thought this might be an appropriate topic for the long time HAL cruises (including me) that have been looking for other options. We are among those that think the several of the major mass market lines (i.e. HAL, Celebrity) have lost their way and have not been able to clearly define their future niche. Meanwhile, some other companies seem to have a very clear vision of the future and they are putting the big money on the line. Consider MSC, which is a huge privately owned shipping company that has recently jumped into the major modern cruise market. Within the next 5 or so years...MSC will have 16 large (relatively new) cruise ships. They (along with NCL) are really pushing the "ship within a ship" concept with their so-called "Yacht Club" which is luxury (and great service) on a normal type ship. The Yacht Club are cabins and suites usually located in a private section of the larger ships and not accessible to those not booked into the yacht club. These folks have their own dining room, their own pool, lounges, staff, etc. But they also can partake of what's available on the large ship such as lots of entertainment, activities, etc. In a sense its the best of both worlds. But now, MSC has just announced that they intend to order 4 new small ship builds (600-800 passenger) which will likely be targeted at the those who want smaller more luxury-type vessels (you hear this HAL?).

And we should also mention Richard Branson (of the Virgin empire) who is soon to enter the US cruise market with 3 new ships. These will be about 2600 passenger and at least the first one will be age 18+ only. 86% of the cabins will have balconies (you hear this HAL?). The history of Mr. Branson is that most everything he does is high quality and successful.

And then we have Viking Ocean cruises....which some might say is what HAL should be. Nice new ships, decent cabins, and a ship primarily dedicated to grown ups who want to cruise and tour. Folks should not scoff at Viking as this company has a terrific management team. They have managed to grow from a small River Boat company to one of the largest river boat companies....and now is quickly making its mark in the cruise line world with 6 new ships....with about 900 passengers on each (a size popular with many long-time HAL fans).

So look out HAL. The cruise industry may soon be leaving you in its wake. While HAL still operates many older type ships (with relatively few balconies and lots of maintenance issues)...other companies are forging ahead with some very competitive products.

Hank

Thanks for the summary. Viking Ocean Cruises does sound interesting and an alternative to HAL.

Viking Ocean Cruises is WAY out of my price range. Won't even consider it.

MSC is definitely worth a look.

Roz

If you like smaller ships, keep it in the Carnival family with Seabourn.

Viking Ocean Cruises is WAY out of my price range. Won't even consider it.

 

MSC is definitely worth a look.

 

Roz

Read the reviews of MSC here on CC. Not impressed with them.

MSC offers a more European cruise experience, which I think I would enjoy. I'm willing to give them a try.

Roz

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Love the fact that MSC is building small ships. Thought that was a thing of the past on the larger lines. We booked a transatlantic on Divina this week. Looking forward to it. As for the reviews. I think a lot of people didn’t do their homework and expected them to be another cookie cutter North American line.

MSC offers a more European cruise experience, which I think I would enjoy. I'm willing to give them a try.

 

Roz

 

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Costa is another cruise line that offers a "more European" experience and passenger mix.

The highlights of life on a Viking cruise ship seem to be 'books' and 'scrabble'... (seriously????)

And, uncluttered deck space with no loungers to sit out and enjoy being out on the sea.

Ummmm.... think I'll pass.

And, I believe I read a review of somebody who tried MSC, and yes... they said that in theory, it was one of the best cruise ships and best cruises they had been on... but, def. the one that they least enjoyed.

Love the fact that MSC is building small ships. Thought that was a thing of the past on the larger lines. We booked a transatlantic on Divina this week. Looking forward to it. As for the reviews. I think a lot of people didn’t do their homework and expected them to be another cookie cutter North American line.

I'd be interested to hear your thoughts when you return if you have time to share with us.

My sister sailed on that line and thought HAL was much better and she had her children with them. Ally nervous about HAL and very surprised. ;)

I will be intrigued by their smaller ships as well.

There's a cruise line for everyone if you do your research, and what one person loves another doesn't. On the first full day on our Princess cruise I went to tea and sat with two other women. So we did the "what other cruise lines have you sailed" conversation. One said her favorite was Costa, and I forget what her least favorite was. The other said her favorite was Cunard, and she disliked her Costa cruise so much she wouldn't sail with them again if you handed her the ticket. So depending on who you listened too, Costa is fantastic or Costa is horrible.

I think it will be interesting to look at pricing when MSC has ships of such different size. Will the smaller ones be more expensive?

I'd be interested to hear your thoughts when you return if you have time to share with us.

 

My sister sailed on that line and thought HAL was much better and she had her children with them. Ally nervous about HAL and very surprised. ;)

 

I will be intrigued by their smaller ships as well.

I would be happy to share but you’ll have a long wait. The cruise is in March 2020:D its a very interesting itinerary. Leaves Miami, then 2 full days in NY before heading to Bermuda, Azores, Lisbon, Valencia, Marseille and ends in Genoa.

You go Hlitner. Right on the mark. I agree.

I think a lot of HAL have blind faith and rather smug.

Just read my thread of Sneaky HAL on making changes with refundable.

I have travelled with HAL for 9 years and they have change and not for the good.

Cunard is reasonable and a step up from HAL.

Hecl even just Carnival newer ships are good.

I agree with your wakeup call and too bad some folks het defensive.

I attended the annual NY Times Travel Show in NYC this year to attend some of the lectures and see if there was anything new and exciting in travel. MSC had a large presence at the show. HAL, not at all. We spoke to the MSC rep. We're a couple in our mid 60's and we told him we liked the service and accommodations on HAL but felt it was falling down in programming and entertainment. He thought we would be be very happy in the Yacht Club as the rest of the ship was more family oriented.

One thing to note. If you're American (not sure about Canadian) and sail the Caribbean from Miami, your cruise fare is paid in U.S. dollars. If you're on a European itinerary, the fare is paid in Euro. As of now, that could be a deal breaker.

After cruising for several years on Carnival, Princess, and Royal Caribbean, my wife and I gave HAL a try in 2016. We booked a 14 day Alaska cruise in August 2016 on the Maasdam to celebrate our 50th wedding anniversary, and last December took a full transit Panama Canal cruise on the Westerdam. We were very happy with both experiences.

HAL has everything we are looking for in a cruise. Although we cruise most often on Royal Caribbean (it's within driving distance) we will be on HAL again as often as possible.

Some people like ships with a lot of bells and whistles, and that's OK. But, I hope HAL keeps the traditional type of cruise experience we only recently discovered.

My TA tried MSC and was not that impressed. However they are somewhat new and may be "learning" and working on their quality. Richard Branson is usually golden no matter what he does. We'll see if this new venture is the same. I hear nothing bUT compliments on Viking, but usually folks who have taken river cruises. If their quality holds into ocean cruising, they are a tough competitor. However, I am sure it comes at a high cost point.

So I am a HAL person for now and soon to try Celebrity. Anxious to see how it compares.

I would be happy to share but you’ll have a long wait. The cruise is in March 2020:D its a very interesting itinerary. Leaves Miami, then 2 full days in NY before heading to Bermuda, Azores, Lisbon, Valencia, Marseille and ends in Genoa.

Nice itinerary and love the end port.

I'll happily wait for your report.

Fine, Hank. I've enjoyed both reading your posts and traveling with you in person. But I have considered your post and disagree with you. I apologize for my tone.

 

Why don't you "walk the talk"? You and all the sophisticates should go ahead and enjoy all the yummy new choices in the cruise line smorgasbord. Be sure to visit us periodically to hector and lecture us about how degraded HAL has become, and how your choices are so much smarter, better, and superior. I'm sure HAL management hasn't got a clue, according to you, so why should they even bother with putting out new ships like Koenigsdam and Nieuw Statendam?

 

You have stated here that Prinsendam is one of your favorite vessels. But isn't that one of "those older ships, with very few balconies and lots of maintenance issues"?

 

All those options you mention in your post come with one, big caveat. They cost more than the average HAL cruise. You'll be back on HAL, Princess, and Celebrity, because the bottom line for you, and so many, is cost (understandably so). You, and so many like you, complain constantly about HAL, but you don't go away.

 

So options are good. I agree with you there. But why can't you just mention the new options without denigrating HAL? HAL has a niche market. If it's not yours, YOU go ahead and put your money where your mouth is.

Like a lot, MOM! :D

Fine, Hank. I've enjoyed both reading your posts and traveling with you in person. But I have considered your post and disagree with you. I apologize for my tone.

 

Why don't you "walk the talk"? You and all the sophisticates should go ahead and enjoy all the yummy new choices in the cruise line smorgasbord. Be sure to visit us periodically to hector and lecture us about how degraded HAL has become, and how your choices are so much smarter, better, and superior. I'm sure HAL management hasn't got a clue, according to you, so why should they even bother with putting out new ships like Koenigsdam and Nieuw Statendam?

 

You have stated here that Prinsendam is one of your favorite vessels. But isn't that one of "those older ships, with very few balconies and lots of maintenance issues"?

 

All those options you mention in your post come with one, big caveat. They cost more than the average HAL cruise. You'll be back on HAL, Princess, and Celebrity, because the bottom line for you, and so many, is cost (understandably so). You, and so many like you, complain constantly about HAL, but you don't go away.

 

So options are good. I agree with you there. But why can't you just mention the new options without denigrating HAL? HAL has a niche market. If it's not yours, YOU go ahead and put your money where your mouth is.

No need to apologize when you are spot on. (y)

Choice is good, but having choices in cruising is nothing new. HAL is one of our choices.

I understand precisely where the OP comes from.

There are a number of similar topic threads on many of the boards - same 3 themes. Does their cruise line know where it is going, long time guests are looking a alternative cruise providers due to declining quality and acknowledgement that there is increasing choice in cruising (yeh for that)!.

I never saw this question posted on CC up to 2017/18.

Fortunately, there is more choice than ever and I am so very pleased for myself and everyone else.

I would say based on recent posts; HAL and Princess seem to have the most guests questioning the future position of HAL and Princess in the cruise food chain.

What I see is an ever larger gap developing between the mass lines and the premium.

Celebrity used to be the single cruise line that lay between the mass and premium a way back in time based on ship wide food quality, service etc a tad bit higher than HAL. Celebrity is now down huddled in the mass line bundle albeit with an increasing clear vision of their target market. HAL's focus seems to be on being more traditional and not a thing wrong with that.

The energy following Viking and soon Virgin is super and will no doubt draw guests from the mass lines.

Thank you Hlitner for your interesting comments.

I agree the cruise industry is going to have many more options in the future. I hope they include less expensive small ships. In the meantime, I cruise less often on "wish list" cruises, and travel on land frequently.

I have come close to cruising with HAL on its smaller ships because of their interesting itineraries. However, in the end, I made other choices because I am not someone who could turn a blind eye to on going maintenance, whilst passengers are on board, leaking ceilings, overflowing toilets, etc.

In addition, there are many little things, which add up, which are deal breakers for me. One recent example - Amsterdam, currently on its world tour, berthed at the distant port (old airport) in Hong Kong, in lieu of the popular convenient Ocean Terminal. Shuttles were only provided until 8 pm (on an overnight in HK!).

I understand that there is a market for mega cruise ships, which, because of their size, are less expensive and attractive for their unique cruise ship experiences, versus cruising to many exotic ports of call which can't handle their size.

We do "walk the talk :)." In fact, we have a 21 days booking in the Yacht Club of MSC's Divina....so we shall see. At to Viking Cruisers (we have done some river cruises with their other division) we will likely give that a try within the next year. Good friends of ours recently tried Viking Ocean (in the Caribbean) and gave it mixed reviews (they are a very demanding couple). As to HAL, we have not given up on the line and do have a 41 day cruise booked.

The other line I mentioned (Virgin) does not yet exist :). But we would not likely try that line until they begin to do more ambitious itineraries. My understanding is that their initial ship will spend most (if not all) of its time doing shorter (probably 7 day) cruises in the Caribbean.

And speaking of other options, our next cruise is for more than a month on Princess (another line we have cruised for many years). What made the Princess cruise interesting was the fantastic itinerary (from Singapore to Vancouver.....via Japan, Korea, Vietnam, Taiwan, Japan (many ports) and Alaska. This is the type of itinerary that normally has us booking HAL (who has great itineraries)....but we think that Princess has caught up to HAL (when it comes to itineraries).

So, getting back to RuthC's (OldasDirt Mom) comment about "walk the talk" I think we meet that test given that MSC will be our 15th different cruise line upon which we have cruised. Yes we still like HAL, but we also love variety.

Hank

Fine, Hank. I've enjoyed both reading your posts and traveling with you in person. But I have considered your post and disagree with you. I apologize for my tone.

 

Why don't you "walk the talk"? You and all the sophisticates should go ahead and enjoy all the yummy new choices in the cruise line smorgasbord. Be sure to visit us periodically to hector and lecture us about how degraded HAL has become, and how your choices are so much smarter, better, and superior. I'm sure HAL management hasn't got a clue, according to you, so why should they even bother with putting out new ships like Koenigsdam and Nieuw Statendam?

 

You have stated here that Prinsendam is one of your favorite vessels. But isn't that one of "those older ships, with very few balconies and lots of maintenance issues"?

 

All those options you mention in your post come with one, big caveat. They cost more than the average HAL cruise. You'll be back on HAL, Princess, and Celebrity, because the bottom line for you, and so many, is cost (understandably so). You, and so many like you, complain constantly about HAL, but you don't go away.

 

So options are good. I agree with you there. But why can't you just mention the new options without denigrating HAL? HAL has a niche market. If it's not yours, YOU go ahead and put your money where your mouth is.

Two thumbs up!

Competition from new cruise lines can only be good for the cruising public.

MSC always seemed weird, they have people embarking and debarking in every port on a seven day cruise. Not saying there is anything wrong with that, it's just different. I am looking forward to your MSC review, Hank.