More fake service dog nonsense

[danjayh]

As far as the obese people that you mentioned, did you ever think that they got that way because they have a disability where they can't take those few extra feet? There are many who can walk but choose not to but there are others who would love to walk more but are unable. Don't judge by appearance.

 

I'll take the bait. I have bad knees. Many days I can't walk more than 100 ft without significant pain. I restrict my caloric intake to be equal to or less than what my body uses, and I am not obese. For the vast majority of the population (excluding specific medical conditions that affect metabolic rate, like a bad thyroid), obesity is a choice. I'm OK with people making that choice and don't judge them for it, but it does bother me when they deny that they have any control over it.

[GUT2407]

Harsh but truth. Im sure someone will take offense to what I say and flame me but so be it. A lot of scooter use I see is just from laziness just like those who park in handicap parking that really dont need it. We take for granted, or at least I did anyway, something as simple as walking until we cant walk at all anymore (Im paraplegic since 93). I would give ANYTHING to have my legs back. You would never see me park in a handicap accessible parking place or riding on an elevator ever again.

 

 

And again I guess you are the Judge if it’s needed or not.

 

I use a power wheelchair part-time I have numerous back issues, some days I can’t walk 2 foot to save my life, others I’m not too bad. I wal when I can, somedays with sticks, somedays with a walker, at times unassisted and use the chair when I need to.

 

Not having you or anyone else tell me what I can or can’t do

[Ery]

The only service/guide dogs that should be permitted onboard a cruise ship, an airplane, a train, a bus, in a restaurant, a supermarket & so on; should only be service/guide dogs for the blind.. That's it!!

 

 

 

:rolleyes:

 

 

 

I’ll make sure to tell me 25 year old deaf daughter that her service dog is unimportant- she doesn’t need to know when there’s an emergency signal and the cheap battery powered warning lights in a hotel don’t work. I’m all for cracking down on fake ones and support everything. But service dogs are essential for many others other than just blind.

 

 

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[Expat Cruise]

And now you can see what happens when it is suggested that only the blind, or only blind and..., what will happen. As can be seen seen that comment many other real reasons for service dogs.

 

But no one answered a question posted yesterday. Should all nuts be banned on cruise ships to protect those with peanut allergies ? When does the effect on the overall large group become more important than the one?

[chengkp75]

I do not see it as a flaw. I understand not service dogs under the law. But I believe the cruise lines do not want to be in violation of the ADA so like many Airlines they have allowed a wider range than required under the law.

 

 

This is the thing, everyone keeps comparing the cruise ships to the airlines, and claiming that the airlines are allowing a "wider range" of animals than required out of fear. The problem is that there are two different laws involved. The cruise ships fall (limited fashion) under the ADA, where ESA's are not given protection or accessibility. The airlines fall under the ACAA (Air Carrier's Accessibility Act), which specifically includes ESA's grouped with service animals. So, any comparison of the two industries is moot until the ACAA is amended to match the ADA.

[CruisingNole]

And who judges if they need a scooter or not, oh people like you I guess

 

I’m not judging at all. My point is that who judges whether or not one needs a service dog? If we’re going to start questioning one set of people with “special needs” it’s only fair to question them all, no? And that includes folks in scooters. Or should we just pick and choose who to question?

 

It’s a slippery slope. That’s the point I’m trying to make. Don’t get worked up over it.

[Expat Cruise]

This is the thing, everyone keeps comparing the cruise ships to the airlines, and claiming that the airlines are allowing a "wider range" of animals than required out of fear. The problem is that there are two different laws involved. The cruise ships fall (limited fashion) under the ADA, where ESA's are not given protection or accessibility. The airlines fall under the ACAA (Air Carrier's Accessibility Act), which specifically includes ESA's grouped with service animals. So, any comparison of the two industries is moot until the ACAA is amended to match the ADA.

 

Yes two different Acts but the lawsuits that can be filed, with the same types of damages are the same. CEO of cruise lines are looking at what has been filed against Airlines and all have taken notice. Two different laws covering the same areas, so the comparisons are valid.

 

We can sit here and state what we believe is right or should be done. But the companies fear breaking these federal laws more than up setting a few guest. While guest may think they are important to the cruise operators , we are all just the product they are moving. If they could make more money with turkeys as passengers they would do it. It is all about the bottom line profit, look at the CEO paychecks.

[cruziJenn]

. So, any comparison of the two industries is moot until the ACAA is amended to match the ADA.

 

So once again this....

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/gop-senator-wants-to-rein-in-emotional-support-animals-on-airplanes

 

"Burr's legislation, which he introduced last month, would match the definition of a service animal in the Air Carrier Access Act with the one included in the Americans with Disabilities Act."

 

And if enough people would email their congressional reps that cruisers have just as big of a problem and that even more needs to be done in that direction then maybe even the cruise lines (and others) will be able to do more for the safety and emotional welfare of ALL of us.

 

I don't think that it helps to bring scooters into this because scooters are way more under the control of the humans that operate them than animals.....thinking mostly about the NBC article's example of 2 service animals getting into a fight.....and the more complicated we make any issue the more impossible it is to ever get anything done.

[chengkp75]

So once again this....

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/gop-senator-wants-to-rein-in-emotional-support-animals-on-airplanes

 

"Burr's legislation, which he introduced last month, would match the definition of a service animal in the Air Carrier Access Act with the one included in the Americans with Disabilities Act."

 

 

Unfortunately, if this is what his bill is aimed to do, it is irrelevant. The ACAA already defines a "service animal" exactly the same as the ADA. However, the ACAA allows ESA's, in addition to service animals. What he may intend is to restrict ESA's from airlines, but that is a different thing from "changing the definition". Not sure if this is a case of faulty reporting, or typical faulty understanding of legislation on the part of our legislators.

[cruziJenn]

Unfortunately, if this is what his bill is aimed to do, it is irrelevant. The ACAA already defines a "service animal" exactly the same as the ADA. However, the ACAA allows ESA's, in addition to service animals. What he may intend is to restrict ESA's from airlines, but that is a different thing from "changing the definition". Not sure if this is a case of faulty reporting, or typical faulty understanding of legislation on the part of our legislators.

 

It doesn't seem to be faulty reporting because it matches what BDevilCruiser quoted from Burr's website, but yes could be faulty understanding....and then you have the lobbyists and K Street money that can screw up just about everything that happens in DC.....and then you have the fact that the USA is the most 'disabled' country in the whole phreeking world lol.....

 

I give up :rolleyes:

[mouseRD]

"I agree completely, it does not matter the size of the dog it can still be a service/comfort dog. I am not saying I agree with people abusing this, but it seems people in the U.S. specifically, push things to the furthest possible to get what they want. I was on a flight once from FLL to DTW and about 26 people needed to have a wheelchair to board, but it was amazing how many in that 3 hour flight had no problem walking off the plane because they did not want to wait for the wheelchair on landing. I even mentioned it to the flight attendants and they said it was a joke, most do it to board first and the airline gets charged for that service. Which guess who ends up paying for that in the end?"

 

 

We were actually one of those wheelchair people! My husband had heart valve surgery out of state and when the MD released him to fly home, he recommended the wheelchair to transport us to and from the gate because it was difficult for him to walk longer distances at that time. We had no problems securing one when arriving at the Cleveland airport to fly home (one of the agents outside the airport helped us). When we deplaned, Charlotte airport was packed with Friday afternoon travelers and we were told we would have had to wait a very long time for a wheelchair. I remember there were 4 or 5 others sitting near us at the exit gate also waiting for transport. We were fortunate to secure a spot on one of those people movers; it would have been a nightmare to try to walk with my husband's weakened condition and wall to wall people at that time in the airport. He was so afraid of getting bumped by someone. We had paid extra for first class seats on this flight to have more room for my husband so he would be comfortable, so we would have been at the beginning of the boarding process anyway. So not everyone is doing this as a ploy to board first.

[Milwaukee Eight]

We participated in an event this past weekend regarding our Veterans.

 

Several groups were there with Dogs and training organizations.

 

We saw deaf dogs work as Service Dogs. They had a collar that would vibrate and they understood from vibration what to do.

 

Some of these dogs are warning dogs. There were two dogs there with their Veteran. Both Vets had traumatic brain injuries. One Veterans had occasion seizures. He had the death dog. That dog could warn him and those around him that a seizure was coming in the next 45-60 minutes just by smell.

 

His dog looked like an ordinary ugly mutt dog. However, the dog was very well disciplined.

 

Just think of this benefit, warning of a pending seizure. People with seizures take tons of meds and are not allowed to do certain things. If you have a warning, you can stop and take necessary meds to prevent instead of all the time.

 

 

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[time4u2go]

And now you can see what happens when it is suggested that only the blind, or only blind and..., what will happen. As can be seen seen that comment many other real reasons for service dogs.

 

But no one answered a question posted yesterday. Should all nuts be banned on cruise ships to protect those with peanut allergies ? When does the effect on the overall large group become more important than the one?

I've been wondering that as well.

[LMaxwell]

I've been wondering that as well.

 

 

 

Someone with a bit allergy can avoid food with nuts or may have been made with nuts. Also the cruise line is preparing the food and so is well aware of potential allergic reactions in something they provide.

 

With animal dander or hair the cruise line really has no control over that and, frankly, I have something less than full confidence they can turn over a room properly. Also, while trained service animals do not lunge at people or defecate in public spaces, pets do. That is something beyond cruise line control as well.

 

 

 

 

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[John&LaLa]

I recently attended a Wounded Warrior Project three day conference. That is not a service dog. If it were, it would have a harness clearly identifying it as a service dog and it will say please do not pet. IF a dog does not have the harness, it is not a service dog it is a comfort dog. Anyone can say their dog is a comfort dog.

And anyone can buy a harness that you describe

 

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[time4u2go]

Someone with a bit allergy can avoid food with nuts or may have been made with nuts. Also the cruise line is preparing the food and so is well aware of potential allergic reactions in something they provide.

 

With animal dander or hair the cruise line really has no control over that and, frankly, I have something less than full confidence they can turn over a room properly. Also, while trained service animals do not lunge at people or defecate in public spaces, pets do. That is something beyond cruise line control as well.

 

 

 

 

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Some people with peanut allergies can't even be around peanuts or anything made with them, so it's not always as simple as not eating foods made with them.

 

Along the same lines as your room scenario, what if someone in a room had peanuts and possibly peanut shells that weren't thoroughly cleaned before the next guest, whom might be allergic?

[SherriZ366]

So the deaf, the epileptic, the diabetic etc don’t count

And what about people (often military members who have served in a war zone) have PTSD? Real service dogs are trained to deal with this condition. The object of regulation and our scorn should be the fake service dogs and the Internet sites that enable their owners to bring them on ships, airplanes etc. One good point about the legislation that Senator Burr has introduced.

[chengkp75]

I recently attended a Wounded Warrior Project three day conference. That is not a service dog. If it were, it would have a harness clearly identifying it as a service dog and it will say please do not pet. IF a dog does not have the harness, it is not a service dog it is a comfort dog. Anyone can say their dog is a comfort dog.

 

I agree with you that the dog in the picture is likely simply a pet. However, there is no legal requirement to have a harness or vest. I have seen plenty of true service dogs that do not wear vests or harnesses, whether out of economics or choice.

[ditmar2007]

Should all nuts be banned on cruise ships to protect those with peanut allergies?

 

Peanuts are not nuts. I could easily survive a week without peanuts.

[graphicguy]

I've seen him (and his dog) on board. There are two others I've seen, also...both on HOS. One was an elderly couple (70s?) with their dog in what looked to be an expensive stroller. The other was an elderly lady holding her little dog that wore some sort of dress (or at least, that's what it looked like to me).

 

But, I can tell I'm near a cat or dog way before I see them. My eyes well up and I start to sneeze over and over.

 

 

Looking at cruises to sail in Sept. RCCL isn't on the short list because of this.

 

Pet. Probably why he was inviting people to pet it. Because it’s for his amusement and enjoyment, not a trained animal providing an essential service.

 

 

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[botbien]

 

"I was on a flight once from FLL to DTW and about 26 people needed to have a wheelchair to board..."

 

 

I have never been on a flight which has that many wheelchairs. But this concerns me.

 

Are there rules how many wheelchairs can be booked for a flight?

 

If these passengers truly cannot walk and depend on wheelchairs, who will assist them to evacuate if the aircraft needs to make an emergency landing?

Edited May 10, 2018 by botbien

[ldubs]

I have never been on a flight which has that many wheelchairs. But this concerns me.

 

Are there rules how many wheelchairs can be booked for a flight?

 

If these passengers truly cannot walk and depend on wheelchairs, who will assist them to evacuate if the aircraft needs to make an emergency landing?

 

 

A high percentage of people have amazing recoveries during the flight. :D

 

Keep in mind, needing wheelchair assistance to board doesn't mean they are actually checking a wheelchair on the flight.

[roadburner]

I am one of those at the boarding gate in a wheelchair. I walk with a cane and the longer and further I go, the slower and more painful the walk. I simply cannot get from gate to gate in the time allowed. I do not get magically well during the flight; the pain of the arthritis in my back, knees and hands is eternal. Some days are better if I get lots of rest, which is why I cruise, though only on the smaller ships. The Lange ones are too exhaustingly long with the handicapped rooms usually at the opposite end as the dining options.

[RDC1]

A high percentage of people have amazing recoveries during the flight. :D

 

Keep in mind, needing wheelchair assistance to board doesn't mean they are actually checking a wheelchair on the flight.

 

Pilots often use the term miracle flights due the number of people that need a wheel chair to get onto the plane, but are able to walk off. Its a miracle.

[RDC1]

I am one of those at the boarding gate in a wheelchair. I walk with a cane and the longer and further I go, the slower and more painful the walk. I simply cannot get from gate to gate in the time allowed. I do not get magically well during the flight; the pain of the arthritis in my back, knees and hands is eternal. Some days are better if I get lots of rest, which is why I cruise, though only on the smaller ships. The Lange ones are too exhaustingly long with the handicapped rooms usually at the opposite end as the dining options.

 

The issue is not those that need a wheel chair between gates due to distance or time. It is those that say that they cannot board without a wheel chair, even during the early boarding for those that need extra time (no line present). Yet once the plane lands, off they come without a chair. Walk right down to baggage claim and off they go. Those are the folks that consume the resources and help and make it difficult for the resources to be available for those that really need it.