Family's statement on toddler's cruise death

[Beardface]

11 minutes ago, GA Dave said:

We did a quick calculation at work on the usual capacity of this ship and the average number of sailings per year and came up with a very conservative estimate that 2.4 million people have sailed on this ship since it was built.  And this is the first time a child has fallen through one of those windows.  If this was truly a big safety issue, based on normal statistics, there would have been many more cases of this occurring over the years.

 

And that's just on the Freedom of the Seas.  Now figure for it's two sister ships, Independence of the Seas and Liberty of the Seas, with 4.3k and 4.9k double capacity, respectively.  Oh, and then realize the Freedom Class is just a lengthened version of the Voyager Class and it's 5 ships, Voyager of the Seas, Explorer of the Seas, Adventure of the Seas, Mariner of the Seas (all 3.8k double capacity) and Navigator of the Seas (4k double capacity) and... Yeah

 

It's statistically improbable that a critical design flaw was just uncovered now after at least these 8 ships have all been sailing since 1999 (Voyager) with all a part of the fleet since 2008 (Independence).

 

[dcgrumpy]

12 minutes ago, Beardface said:

 

And that's just on the Freedom of the Seas.  Now figure for it's two sister ships, Independence of the Seas and Liberty of the Seas, with 4.3k and 4.9k double capacity, respectively.  Oh, and then realize the Freedom Class is just a lengthened version of the Voyager Class and it's 5 ships, Voyager of the Seas, Explorer of the Seas, Adventure of the Seas, Mariner of the Seas (all 3.8k double capacity) and Navigator of the Seas (4k double capacity) and... Yeah

 

It's statistically improbable that a critical design flaw was just uncovered now after at least these 8 ships have all been sailing since 1999 (Voyager) with all a part of the fleet since 2008 (Independence).

 

I may be wrong, but I'm pretty sure the windows on  Oasis class pool decks also open. 

[Beardface]

1 minute ago, dcgrumpy said:

I may be wrong, but I'm pretty sure the windows on  Oasis class pool decks also open. 

 

They most certainly are, but it's not the same exact design.  The Oasis and Anthem Class windows aren't shaded green and are just vertical panes.

 

 

The Freedom and Voyager class windows are green tinted and bend back inward at the top.

 

[dcgrumpy]

Yeah thanks. I couldn't remember what the Oasis class windows looked like but I found this picture TY took in the Solarium. Different, but they do open.

 

[smplybcause]

Also on either Majesty or Enchantment (or maybe Monarch if it was my first Royal cruise) there's the slide windows. Forget which one if it's only one of them! But recall them on at least one of my weekenders on Royal. 

[Beardface]

42 minutes ago, smplybcause said:

Also on either Majesty or Enchantment (or maybe Monarch if it was my first Royal cruise) there's the slide windows. Forget which one if it's only one of them! But recall them on at least one of my weekenders on Royal. 

 

Enchantment of the Seas (Vision Class circa 1996):

 

Majesty of the Seas (Sovereign Class circa 1987) -

 

Jewel of the Seas (Radiance Class circa 2001)

 

Quantum of the Seas (Quantum Class circa 2014)

 

In some way shape or form the windows on all current Royal ships slide open.  All of them.  And it's been like this for the past... We'll go back to their first ship, the Song of Norway from 1970, and... Yep

 

 

So to think the odds of this being a critical design flaw that is just uncovered now is...

 

Unlikely

[beerman2]

By the mother stating there are a "million ways" to make it safer, can't be further from the truth and a total exaggeration. As stated recently it can't be a design flaw as I believe this is a first ( someone falling out a window).

 

This unfortunately is all lawyer driven, money driven.  It was a tragedy without doubt, but the blame needs to be shouldered by grandpa and NOT the cruise line.

 

I wouldn't even think about putting my grandkids in that situation.

1) Open window

2) 11 decks up

3) Concrete pier below.

 

It absolutely makes no sense whatsoever.

 

Another poster questioned why would there be windows that open? Ventilation comes to mind. 

[Beardface]

2 minutes ago, beerman2 said:

By the mother stating there are a "million ways" to make it safer, can't be further from the truth and a total exaggeration. As stated recently it can't be a design flaw as I believe this is a first ( someone falling out a window).

 

This unfortunately is all lawyer driven, money driven.  It was a tragedy without doubt, but the blame needs to be shouldered by grandpa and NOT the cruise line.

 

I wouldn't even think about putting my grandkids in that situation.

1) Open window

2) 11 decks up

3) Concrete pier below.

 

It absolutely makes no sense whatsoever.

 

Another poster questioned why would there be windows that open? Ventilation comes to mind. 

 

When the windows aren't open, those decks turn into saunas.  When we were on the Oasis, we ran into some stale air at Sea and keeping those windows open was the only way to get any kind of circulation going.  In 110+ degree heat in the middle of July, there likely would have been numerous medical emergencies if they were barred from opening them up.

[beerman2]

Just now, Beardface said:

 

When the windows aren't open, those decks turn into saunas.  When we were on the Oasis, we ran into some stale air at Sea and keeping those windows open was the only way to get any kind of circulation going.  In 110+ degree heat in the middle of July, there likely would have been numerous medical emergencies if they were barred from opening them up.

Agree 100%. With pax packed in like sardines, heat, no air movement can cause many health issues.

[cebee123]

Even without the windows tinted green, no matter how bad my eyesight is, I can tell if there is a window 2 feet from my face... we are not talking about whether the open window was 3 feet away or more. Literally for the baby to fall out grandpa would have had to be maybe 2 feet from the window. Correct?

[Laszlo]

This lawsuit reminds me of this case.......  https://abc13.com/kemah-pd-chiefs-family-sues-shipping-company-for-his-death/5412309/

 

Their is a thing called personal responsibility and their is not enough of it. The grandfather is at fault for holding the baby up to the window and the boater in the case above should have chosen to wear his PDF, it would have saved his life

[cruisequeen4ever]

I still feel horrible for the family to have lost their little baby, BUT I am appalled that they’re blaming the cruise for this and suing them! Having ventilation on a public pool deck is reasonable and appreciated. It’s well-known that you’re not to sit/climb/stand on railings. The entirety of the top of any ship’s deck is open, so by this family’s logic, ships should be completely enclosed! This is ludicrous. People must maintain common sense when they step aboard a cruise ship. I really hope Royal doesn’t settle or take away people’s airflow just because of this accident.

[jaja]

Anyone know result of the police  investigation ? Wasn't  the family to return to PR this week ?

[Pauser]

If it was this week, it was probably postponed due to all the protests in San Juan. Several cruiselines skipped the port this week while things were unsettled.

[April42749]

5 hours ago, cruisequeen4ever said:

I still feel horrible for the family to have lost their little baby, BUT I am appalled that they’re blaming the cruise for this and suing them! Having ventilation on a public pool deck is reasonable and appreciated. It’s well-known that you’re not to sit/climb/stand on railings. The entirety of the top of any ship’s deck is open, so by this family’s logic, ships should be completely enclosed! This is ludicrous. People must maintain common sense when they step aboard a cruise ship. I really hope Royal doesn’t settle or take away people’s airflow just because of this accident.

One thing they can do (not advocating...just a thought) is put little spikes on all railings (like they do so birds don't land) so nobody can sit.

[NLH Arizona]

4 minutes ago, April42749 said:

One thing they can do (not advocating...just a thought) is put little spikes on all railings (like they do so birds don't land) so nobody can sit.

I can see a lawsuit over this.....I went to lean on the railing and it punctured my skin and now I have a scar...why wasn't there a warning sign not to lean on the railing

[Peachypooh]

 I think eventually at least one family member will come to their senses

and realize that Grandpa is in the wrong. There will be other family members defending him.

Families have been  fractured over much much less.

Edited to add: I was on one of the sister ships with my grandchildren when one was only three

It was very evident when windows in that area were open. There is absolutely no way

I would have balanced her on one of the railings. I firmly held her hand wherever we went

and the only time she was lifted was when Grandpa picked her up to carry her and then

it was in an enclosed space by one of the restaurants and only because we didn't want

her to be stepped on because she was so short.

Edited July 26, 2019 by Peachypooh

[Newleno]

On 7/22/2019 at 3:50 PM, graphicguy said:

Just looked at that interview.  I keep coming back to the fact that if they wanted to heal, the GrandPa should apologize for the lapse of judgement.  That way they can all move on.

 

So, I think we all agree this is not an intentional death.  It was an accident caused by GrandPa's poor, poor judgement.  They keep saying he was sitting her on a rail.  That window ledge IS NOT a rail.  It's a very narrow ledge.  And, if the GrandPa really wanted to let the girl band on the glass, he should have just left her on the floor, as she's shown doing at the hockey game.

 

That's a pretty lame excuse on his part, IMHO.

 

HIS negligence caused the little girl's death...NOT Royal's.  I've been on that class of ship.  You'll never convince me that he thought there was a closed window.  If it was closed, there would have been no way to sit the little girl on the ledge.

 

I also agree that jail time would do no one any good.  That said, the GrandPa is responsible.  Any sort of money that the family is trying to extract from Royal, hurts all of us because that's going, in some way, end up negatively affecting the fares.

I disagree about jail time, you just cant take away a life due to negligence and get off with no legal consequences.  Right on about the hockey game picture, little girl was standing on the floor leaning on the glass.  The family and attorney started to spin this from the beginning.  Just because the family spoke out first does not mean that anything they said was true.  How about that disgusting today video that does not portray the truth,  in addition this was not a child's play area, so spin away. This was an area tables, chairs, loungers,  I think that Grandpa deserves to be charged.

[Newleno]

On 7/22/2019 at 5:34 PM, mjkacmom said:

I do not think 99.9% are on the same page as you.

Well the overwhelming majority is, perhaps someone should start a poll

[mjkacmom]

59 minutes ago, Newleno said:

Well the overwhelming majority is, perhaps someone should start a poll

Have at it. I think most people don’t think he should be charged, and although put the blame on him, also accept that it was a tragic accident caused by a momentary lapse in judgement. I think the majority have compassion for the family, including the grandfather. I bet he has apologized a million times already to his family.

[Newleno]

2 minutes ago, mjkacmom said:

Have at it. I think most people don’t think he should be charged, and although put the blame on him, also accept that it was a tragic accident caused by a momentary lapse in judgement. I think the majority have compassion for the family, including the grandfather. I bet he has apologized a million times already to his family.

Hmm interesting SPIN, as you know the 99.9 percent comment and the overwhelming majority comment had absolutely nothing to do with charges but yet you post that, interesting indeed.  Please post arguments on merits not made up spin.  Bottom line is the current  evidence is indicating that the little girl is dead due to the negligence of the grandfather.

[beerman2]

15 minutes ago, mjkacmom said:

Have at it. I think most people don’t think he should be charged, and although put the blame on him, also accept that it was a tragic accident caused by a momentary lapse in judgement. I think the majority have compassion for the family, including the grandfather. I bet he has apologized a million times already to his family.

If grandpa isn't charged for negligence fine. Then lawyer/family should drop lawsuit because RCI wasn't negligent in infants death either.

 

It is a horrible tragedy, that was caused by momentary lapse in judgement, however that doesn't dismiss where the fault is as many are saying.

[phillyguy31]

I have a question since I have never been on this ship. I far away is the railing from the window? If it was far enough way to put her legs between the window and the railing I would think her falling out would be more than an instant. If the rail is too close to the window to put the legs through does that mean her legs went on the window frame?

 

I would think all the cruise line will be encouraging RCL not to settle, because most if not all the ships have similar windows somewhere. I know non the BA and BA+ class they do.

[jenf22]

29 minutes ago, phillyguy31 said:

I have a question since I have never been on this ship. I far away is the railing from the window? If it was far enough way to put her legs between the window and the railing I would think her falling out would be more than an instant. If the rail is too close to the window to put the legs through does that mean her legs went on the window frame?

 

I would think all the cruise line will be encouraging RCL not to settle, because most if not all the ships have similar windows somewhere. I know non the BA and BA+ class they do.

Check out post #263 on page 11.  You can see the railing in the picture.  It looks like it's pretty close to the window.

[graphicguy]

3 minutes ago, jenf22 said:

Check out post #263 on page 11.  You can see the railing in the picture.  It looks like it's pretty close to the window.

It’s within inches of the window.  But, even at that, if as the family states, GrandPa put her on the railing to bang on the glass (if there glass were closed), she’d have to really lean forward to do that, prompting a dangerous scenario regardless of the circumstance.

 

As far as GrandPa apologizing.....I would certainly hope so.  So far, the only thing I’ve read he said was his statement to the police.....that he put the little girl on the railing, lost his grip and she fell.  I’m not certain if it was the family, the lawyer the family hired, or the GrandPa that stated the little girl was put on the rail to bang on the glass (that wasn’t there).

 

Let’s look at this a slightly different way.  For a moment, let’s just say it was the babysitter who was watching the little girl and who put her on the railing and let her fall?  Would you feel there were liability or criminal charges that should be pursued?  How about it was a family friend who was on the cruise with you?  Would that mean that person shouldn’t be held accountable?

 

Is the only reason the GrandPa shouldn’t be held accountable because he has some sort of family ties (someone stated he was the “Step” GrandPa, but not sure if that’s true)?