Do you want cruising to return to what it was?

[ilikeanswers]

11 hours ago, chipmaster said:

You are confusing social norms like dress and behavior versus something that requires significant new business, space, living models.  

 

Not really, changes in people's behaviour influence business and living models. Look at newspapers, people started reading everything online and newspapaers and magazines have been disappearing in favour of news websites which in turn changed the whole landscape of journalism and how they work. Facebook has already announced that they will make more of their jobs work from home positions and if more businesses start to think that way then cities will be forced to change, power grids will have to be upgraded to support the new load of servers, there will have to rethinks in how electricity is charged to make work from home affordable and in turn new residential properties will have to be built with office space in mind. If no one was willing to make significant changes to business space and living models we would still be in cities with no electricity or running water😜.

[mnocket]

3 hours ago, ilikeanswers said:

 

Not really, changes in people's behaviour influence business and living models. Look at newspapers, people started reading everything online and newspapaers and magazines have been disappearing in favour of news websites which in turn changed the whole landscape of journalism and how they work. Facebook has already announced that they will make more of their jobs work from home positions and if more businesses start to think that way then cities will be forced to change, power grids will have to be upgraded to support the new load of servers, there will have to rethinks in how electricity is charged to make work from home affordable and in turn new residential properties will have to be built with office space in mind. If no one was willing to make significant changes to business space and living models we would still be in cities with no electricity or running water😜.

 

Does the future look like this?

 

Or this?

 

Only time will tell, but clearly different people have different expectations.

[clo]

1 hour ago, mnocket said:

Does the future look like this?

 

The first one please. That may be Dolores Park in SF, not sure.

[ldubs]

3 hours ago, mnocket said:

 

Does the future look like this?

 

Or this?

 

Only time will tell, but clearly different people have different expectations.

 

Our County's public health professionals have already approved public gatherings of up to 100 as long as they are outside.   Large inside gatherings (like Church) are still on hold but expected to relax soon.   I suspect that the future will eventually be the "or this" version.  But it will take time and hard work to get there.   

[clo]

44 minutes ago, ldubs said:

Our County's

Which county are you in? We have friends who live in the city and San Mateo. They seem to be still pretty shut down. Still no beauty salons. Just checked and it looks like outdoor dining will/may happen mid-month but indoor not til July. We're in Seattle and they haven't even entered phase 1 (and I know every state defines the phases differently) so really nothing but grocery stores and take out. We were going to spend a couple of nights on the way home in Hood River, OR, but they're REALLY shut down. Locals only.

[KnowTheScore]

9 hours ago, drsel said:

With an all the unemployment and recession one would have expected cruise prices to fall.
but on the contrary they have risen.
I can't find any good deals for Asia

 

Not really surprising.

 

Cruise ships will be forced to take less passengers to maintain social distancing.   That's less on-board revenue for the cruise lines.  That loss will of course be passed onto customers.   Cruising, which had become more and more affordable to a wider poorer demographic, will once again go in the opposite direction and return to being the vacation of the wealthy.

However to attract the wealthy they will have to restore the significant loss in quality and services that has happened over the past 5+ years. 

 

As always it will be the "bread and butter" loyal older generation that feeds the industry because recessions don't affect these people.  Their pension payments continue to come in regardless.  The cruise lines were very stupid to ignore this demographic and reduce quality and service to pander to the younger party generation.   They may struggle to restore custom if they try to charge expensive prices for no increased quality and service.

 

.

[DaveSJ711]

1 hour ago, clo said:

 

We're in Seattle and they haven't even entered phase 1 (and I know every state defines the phases differently) so really nothing but grocery stores and take out.

 

26 counties in Washington are in Phase 2 (including mine), and 7 counties are in Phase 3.  Yesterday the Washington State Department of Health approved King County's application to move to a modified version of Phase 1.  This will allow Seattle restaurants and other businesses to reopen with limited capacity.

[clo]

5 minutes ago, DaveSJ711 said:

26 counties in Washington are in Phase 2 (including mine), and 7 counties are in Phase 3.  Yesterday the Washington State Department of Health approved King County's application to move to a modified version of Phase 1.  This will allow Seattle restaurants and other businesses to reopen with limited capacity.

Thanks. I think I knew that was about to happen. It's been tough being in one of our favorite food cities and not having full access. We did get two meals worth of take out dim sum at Jade Garden in the ID, a pastrami sandwich at Zylberschtein's (along with a darn tasty everything bagel), and 2oz. of Idaho white sturgeon from Seattle Caviar 🙂 We're leaving Monday so too late for us but we always try to hit Toby's in Coupeville on Whidbey Island. But I DID NOT want mussels as take out. This trip was to care for our injured adult daughter so we did what we came for.

[DaveSJ711]

4 minutes ago, clo said:

Thanks. I think I knew that was about to happen. It's been tough being in one of our favorite food cities and not having full access. We did get two meals worth of take out dim sum at Jade Garden in the ID, a pastrami sandwich at Zylberschtein's (along with a darn tasty everything bagel), and 2oz. of Idaho white sturgeon from Seattle Caviar 🙂 We're leaving Monday so too late for us but we always try to hit Toby's in Coupeville on Whidbey Island. But I DID NOT want mussels as take out. This trip was to care for our injured adult daughter so we did what we came for.

 

My family used to own a beach house just south of the Coupeville ferry terminal.  I know Toby's very well.

[clo]

3 minutes ago, DaveSJ711 said:

 

My family used to own a beach house just south of the Coupeville ferry terminal.  I know Toby's very well.

Love it!

 

[neverbeenhere]

Late to the story and as stated, cruising circa 1995 and prior, I’m all in.

 

yes, prices need to rise substantially to provide cruising as it once was and should be again. 

[drsel]

Late to the story and as stated, cruising circa 1995 and prior, I’m all in.

 

yes, prices need to rise substantially to provide cruising as it once was and should be again. 

But the highest standards in cruising are still maintained on the luxury and ultra luxury lines like Regent seven seas, Seabourn, Oceania, etc

And so are the high prices

[navybankerteacher]

I wonder if the rising prices on the true high end lines, balanced against the necessity of cruise lines to fill their fleets of mega-ships, might open a true mid-point niche for smaller (say 1000-2000 pax) distinctly better than mass market without achieving luxury status -  comparable to that which was occupied by the likes of HAL and Celebrity in the 1990’s and early 2000’s.

 

Edited June 7, 2020 by navybankerteacher

[neverbeenhere]

7 hours ago, drsel said:

But the highest standards in cruising are still maintained on the luxury and ultra luxury lines like Regent seven seas, Seabourn, Oceania, etc

And so are the high prices

Agreed, the luxury lines keep higher standards of cruising. But, (there is always a but) a good portion of those standards used to be common place on all levels of cruising. A raise in prices, not to luxury level, could allow for increased standards on many lines. There will always be the lines that will attract passengers with low prices and low standards. Cruiselines are being forced into a reset, perhaps some of them could up their game? 

[cruisemom42]

1 hour ago, navybankerteacher said:

I wonder if the rising prices on the true high end lines, balanced against the necessity of cruise lines to fill their fleets of mega-ships, might open a true mid-point niche for smaller (say 1000-2000 pax) distinctly better than mass market without achieving luxury status -  comparable to that which was occupied by the likes of HAL and Celebrity in the 1990’s and early 2000’s.

 

 

Isn't that niche already occupied by Viking ocean cruises; with their passenger capacity just under 1,000 and their fleet of beautiful new ships?

[DaveSJ711]

34 minutes ago, cruisemom42 said:

 

Isn't that niche already occupied by Viking ocean cruises; with their passenger capacity just under 1,000 and their fleet of beautiful new ships?

 

Yes it is.  That's why we cruised on four of those beautiful ships just in the last year.

[navybankerteacher]

29 minutes ago, cruisemom42 said:

 

Isn't that niche already occupied by Viking ocean cruises; with their passenger capacity just under 1,000 and their fleet of beautiful new ships?

I have not done an across the board in depth study, but (while their ships are what I think are a good size) I think their fares generally seem  to be in the $400-$500 ppd range, putting them very close to the Crystal, et al range — still leaving a wide gap above the $100-$200 ppd of the mass market ships —- which is the niche I believe could be filled. 

[cruisemom42]

2 hours ago, navybankerteacher said:

I have not done an across the board in depth study, but (while their ships are what I think are a good size) I think their fares generally seem  to be in the $400-$500 ppd range, putting them very close to the Crystal, et al range — still leaving a wide gap above the $100-$200 ppd of the mass market ships —- which is the niche I believe could be filled. 

 

Perhaps. My metrics are skewed because I sail solo. Sometimes I can find deals on the higher end lines that cost me less than the mass market ships -- all depends on the % solo supplement.

 

However, I think if any line wanted to fill that "niche" it would be almost impossible to charge less IF they would have to build new ships. 

 

Maybe some far-sighted investor will come along and totally overhaul HAL's older ships (similar to what Oceania has done with the old "R" ships) and build on that.

 

...but I rather doubt it will happen.

 

 

 

 

[SelectSys]

Well, I read this topic start to finish and here are my thoughts:

 

1) Many of those desires to go back in time to a less crowded and smaller ship era of cruising would cause fares to increase.  The luxury ships already provide that experience and really reflect a small percentage of the market.

2) The reduced capacity and extra expense for managing COVID coupled with pent up demand will also contribute to higher prices in the near to mid term for all travel.

3) Age related risk and personal responsibility should be part of all reopening plans including cruising.  The basis of letting the health of the weakest person decide what is permissible for all seems foolish and destructive.

4) I personally will decide to travel more based on the experience provided and will be adjusting what I do to get the best experience with some consideration of the health risk.  I have been seeing what Disney in FL is doing as a proxy and it may not be all that fun to go cruising for a while.

 

[navybankerteacher]

1 hour ago, cruisemom42 said:

 

Perhaps. My metrics are skewed because I sail solo. Sometimes I can find deals on the higher end lines that cost me less than the mass market ships -- all depends on the % solo supplement.

 

However, I think if any line wanted to fill that "niche" it would be almost impossible to charge less IF they would have to build new ships. 

 

Maybe some far-sighted investor will come along and totally overhaul HAL's older ships (similar to what Oceania has done with the old "R" ships) and build on that.

 

...but I rather doubt it will happen.

 

 

 

 

You are probably right - still, as some of the premium lines start to replace their aging ships, there may be a secondary market for some of the.  It is unlikely that a premium ship would drop to zero value overnight. I keep thinking of how long Marco Polo has been sailing since my first time on her in 1996 - when she was already “mature”.

[GlamorousGirl]

The most important thing I hope they do and keep is staggered muster drills, so everyone isn’t crowding into one packed drill, or let people watch the drill on Cabin TVs. Second, I think self-serve at the buffet should go permanently. With servers would be fine. And I’d like to see more social distancing measures in general - I prefer peace and quiet to large, noisy crowds anyway. The meetup points for excursions also get too crowded, and disorderly with pushing and shoving - a solution to that would be nice! I do NOT want masks to be required on board, temporarily or permanently.

[drsel]

I would be absolutely thrilled if cruising returned to what it was before the virus attack

 

 

[ontheweb]

6 hours ago, drsel said:

I would be absolutely thrilled if cruising returned to what it was before the virus attack

 

 

Yes, because this could only happen if the virus is somehow defeated whether by a vaccine, an effective treatment, or it burns itself out.

[davekathy]

I'd like my (our) life to return to what it was. 

[drsel]

I am so looking forward to my 3 Cruises in October November 2020 and also looking to book more Cruises in April May 2021.
Wondering if the prices will drop still further, (after 4 price drops)