It looks like it will have to be a vaccine or a cure to restart cruising as herd immunity is not possible

[ldubs]

On 7/13/2020 at 5:33 PM, slidergirl said:

As others have said, this article is out of date and the authors have already updated to say #WeartheDamnMask.   With a new virus, things are going to change frequently.  Things that were said last month may have been updated since then.   I have found in many groups I am in which discuss COVID-19, the more someone is against masks or distancing or thinks it's a harmless disease, the more use of out of date information will be sited to try to bolster their opinion.  

 

Thank you and others for posting this follow up.  Too many in denial search for something to confirm their pre-existing beliefs and the internet is just too handy for that.  

 

This is my favorite part of the quote:  

 

"The chance of catching Covid-19 from a passing interaction in a public space is therefore minimal."

 

At this point in time what thinking person would accept this without serious reservations.  Certainly not the 3.5 million Americans with CV-19, nor the 140,000 who have died.   

 

 

[ilikeanswers]

On 7/14/2020 at 6:35 AM, dogs4fun said:

I assumed that resistance to wearing masks was a relatively new phenomenon. Just read this article & it appears that opposition to prudent precautions has been around for awhile. 

https://theconversation.com/mask-resistance-during-a-pandemic-isnt-new-in-1918-many-americans-were-slackers-141687

 

I guess it can be said the lessons of the past have not been learnt😳.

[evandbob]

On 7/13/2020 at 11:47 AM, clo said:

I call them "LCD." Lowest common denominator. And, you bet, they'll cruise. And make a bloody mess of an already bad situation. I honestly can't imagine what it would take to restart cruises.

 

I rarely saw the group alluded to by ontheweb during my 50 + cruising experiences, including my cruises from NyC.

 

As far as herd immunity, the Gov of Miss., an economics maor experienced with numbers crunching just said: "But herd immunity is not anything like a realistic solution in the short or mid-term. I wish it was."

https://www.cnn.com/2020/07/15/politics/tate-reeves-mississippi-coronavirus-herd-immunity/index.html

 

 

On 7/13/2020 at 11:47 AM, clo said:

 

 

Edited July 15, 2020 by evandbob

[Just_Westy]

I guys, wife getting seriously restless so I thought I chase up cruising prospects again but alas the news is quite dire for those of us who are itching to get back out there.

 

It seems without an effective vaccine in place that has proven to work cruising to foreign destinations is out of the question for at least another 2 years. 

 

We may see bubble cruises much earlier Home port to Home port no stops but I really can't see any long distance ocean cruising on the horizon.

[Toofarfromthesea]

On 7/12/2020 at 12:26 PM, pc_load_letter said:

 

Then everyone on these boards should clutch their masks, hide in their homes, stay home from work, and pray for a vaccine.

 

If there is no herd immunity then it means that prior infection does not confer immunity.  Which means that vaccines that simulate prior infection cannot confer immunity either.

I am constantly amazed at the cognitive dissonance of people who ascribe little or no value to being antibody positive but have an almost magical belief in vaccines.

IMO the key is going to end up being treatment, not a vaccine.  Unfortunately the most encouraging treatments to date have involved low-cost readily available drugs like the hydroxychloroquine cocktail, the steroid inhalation treatment and the treatments that were used and are being used in Japan and Singapore.  There isn't any big money to be made with any of these so they are essentially ignored.  But get a new PRICEY treatment showing any optimistic results and the potential of billions of dollars going to Big Pharma and it will be treated like the second coming.

[Toofarfromthesea]

On 7/12/2020 at 12:57 PM, clo said:

I saw an interview with Tom Hanks and he said their antibodies are already starting to drop.

 

But a vaccine is the answer because that won't happen with the antibodies generated by a vaccine?

[Toofarfromthesea]

On 7/12/2020 at 2:39 PM, pc_load_letter said:

 

An MD could probably define levels of contagiousness but I did find this....https://www.healthgrades.com/right-care/infections-and-contagious-diseases/8-highly-contagious-diseases-you-should-know-about

 

Tuberculosis (TB)

TB is a relatively rare disease in the United States, but it’s common in other parts of the world and is highly contagious. TB is caused by a bacterium that attacks the lungs and causes coughing, chest pain, and other symptoms. Left untreated, it can be deadly. TB bacteria are released into the air when a person with TB coughs, sneezes or speaks. You can become infected simply by breathing in the contaminated air. If you think you may have been exposed, contact your doctor about testing. If you are infected, there is medicine to prevent the infection from getting worse.

 

 

TB is contagious enough that it it the only disease for which you need to regularly test negative to become and continue as a California public school teacher.  An initial test is required, and retesting is required every 4 years.  

[Toofarfromthesea]

On 7/13/2020 at 10:48 AM, George C said:

There are lots of idiots out there a 30 year man in Dallas area attended a COVID-19 party thinking the disease is not real and then died from it. State governor just recently made mask wearing mandatory in stores and has now closed down bars a few weeks after restarting them. I will not fly or cruise until things get back to near normal. 

 

Turned out to be a total hoax.  Not one single fact in that story was able to be verified.  

[clo]

21 minutes ago, Toofarfromthesea said:

 

But a vaccine is the answer because that won't happen with the antibodies generated by a vaccine?

Certainly not what *I* said or believe.

 

Treatments for HIV/AIDS have been effective but it doesn't spread at all like this does.

[clo]

Somebody on one of these threads is planning/hoping to go to Israel. I saw this on FB as part of a live broadcast and thought I'd share.

 

"Israel is seeing a 50-fold surge in new coronavirus cases, raising questions on whether the country opened too soon. Now Prime Minister Netanyahu is reversing most its reopening plan and Israelis are feeling the economic strain. "

[lenquixote66]

A bit of Dr, Fauci trivia. He grew up in Brooklyn,NY and even though he was only 5’7 he was the Captain of his HS basketball team.The reason that I am posting this is that he had to have taken a lot of flack to achieve this and those of us who grew up in Brooklyn 

have to be mentally tough.

[neverbeenhere]

Height is not a necessity for being the captain, if you said 5' 7"center leading the league in rebounds and blocked shots, I would be really impressed.

 

This is not meant to denigrate his abilities.

[chipmaster]

2 hours ago, Toofarfromthesea said:

 

If there is no herd immunity then it means that prior infection does not confer immunity.  Which means that vaccines that simulate prior infection cannot confer immunity either.

I am constantly amazed at the cognitive dissonance of people who ascribe little or no value to being antibody positive but have an almost magical belief in vaccines.

IMO the key is going to end up being treatment, not a vaccine.  Unfortunately the most encouraging treatments to date have involved low-cost readily available drugs like the hydroxychloroquine cocktail, the steroid inhalation treatment and the treatments that were used and are being used in Japan and Singapore.  There isn't any big money to be made with any of these so they are essentially ignored.  But get a new PRICEY treatment showing any optimistic results and the potential of billions of dollars going to Big Pharma and it will be treated like the second coming.

 

LOL a great post! 

[chipmaster]

2 hours ago, Toofarfromthesea said:

 

Turned out to be a total hoax.  Not one single fact in that story was able to be verified.  

 

What was/is the hoax, someone caught COVID19 and died?  

 

What they spin around it is less material than the fact people catch it and die!

Edited July 16, 2020 by chipmaster

[clo]

Not starting a thread but QANTAS has just announced that they're canceling all intl flights through March 2021.

 

https://www.tripsavvy.com/qantas-international-flight-cancellations-5071283?utm_campaign=travelgetsl&utm_medium=email&utm_source=cn_nl&utm_content=20914505&utm_term=gd_bx_bb_eats-bbq

[lenquixote66]

3 hours ago, neverbeenhere said:

Height is not a necessity for being the captain, if you said 5' 7"center leading the league in rebounds and blocked shots, I would be really impressed.

 

This is not meant to denigrate his abilities.

I played semi pro basketball for two seasons. Our center and leading rebounder was 6’1.

Our starting guards were 5’3 and 5’7.Our starting forwards were 6’0 and 6’2.At 6’5 I was the tallest player on the team and also the worst player.

[2wheelin]

4 hours ago, Toofarfromthesea said:

 

If there is no herd immunity then it means that prior infection does not confer immunity.  Which means that vaccines that simulate prior infection cannot confer immunity either.

I am constantly amazed at the cognitive dissonance of people who ascribe little or no value to being antibody positive but have an almost magical belief in vaccines.

IMO the key is going to end up being treatment, not a vaccine.  Unfortunately the most encouraging treatments to date have involved low-cost readily available drugs like the hydroxychloroquine cocktail, the steroid inhalation treatment and the treatments that were used and are being used in Japan and Singapore.  There isn't any big money to be made with any of these so they are essentially ignored.  But get a new PRICEY treatment showing any optimistic results and the potential of billions of dollars going to Big Pharma and it will be treated like the second coming.

Vaccines don’t just simulate infection and can be made to target infections which do not produce effective natural immunity. They don’t just give you a dose of virus. They can be targeted to any portion of the molecule and can enhance the effectiveness of other components in the human body to fight infection.

[cruisemom42]

5 hours ago, Toofarfromthesea said:

 

But a vaccine is the answer because that won't happen with the antibodies generated by a vaccine?

 

Vaccines have evolved a lot since the long-ago days when you were injected with a dose of the killed virus and your body developed antibodies to it.

 

While there are certainly challenges in developing a vaccine with long-lasting immunity against coronaviruses (as has been shown in the past with other diseases caused by them), there are also a number of technologies that could help in creating an effective vaccine for COVID. Something called "prime-boost" is one of these. For an example of how something like that might look for COVID, here is a report of a trial of a "prime-boost" vaccine method against SARS, caused by another coronavirus. 

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7115531/

 

One of the "cool" things is that you have the prime administered intranasally to create mucosal immunity at the viral point of energy, and then an intra-muscular vaccine "boost" to create the systemic-level immunity. The study found strong responses in both types of immunity.

 

 

[ilikeanswers]

6 hours ago, Toofarfromthesea said:

If there is no herd immunity then it means that prior infection does not confer immunity.  Which means that vaccines that simulate prior infection cannot confer immunity either.

 

The Virus and The Vaccine

 

5 hours ago, Toofarfromthesea said:

Turned out to be a total hoax.  Not one single fact in that story was able to be verified.  

 

'I thought this was a hoax': Patient in 30s dies after attending 'COVID party'

[navybankerteacher]

8 hours ago, Toofarfromthesea said:

 

Turned out to be a total hoax.  Not one single fact in that story was able to be verified.  

Hardly a “total hoax” - someone certainly died, that someone obviously contracted it somewhere- and he would not have contracted it had he stayed away from wherever it was that he contracted it - or had practiced distancing.

 

How have you verified your contention that “not one single fact in that story was able to be verified”?  

[Toofarfromthesea]

14 hours ago, navybankerteacher said:

Hardly a “total hoax” - someone certainly died, that someone obviously contracted it somewhere- and he would not have contracted it had he stayed away from wherever it was that he contracted it - or had practiced distancing.

 

How have you verified your contention that “not one single fact in that story was able to be verified”?  

 

The complete lack of details tells the story.  When and where was the purported party?  Who was the patient?  What was the nurse's name so we can get a first hand account, not a third hand account?  Were there contributing co-morbidities.

This story comes down so hard on the side of the narrative that we would get all kinds of details to buttress it.  If they had them.  Yet we got nothing but the unsupported word of someone who was multiple layers away from the purported event.

I bet you think that the guy who died in a motorcycle accident was a covid-19 death just because Florida counted it that way.  When asked if the covid-counted person in their 20s had any co-morbidities the answer was that he died in a motorcycle crash.  When asked why that counted as a covid death the answer was, well we can't be sure that covid didn't cause him to have his accident.

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/florida-health-official-admits-man-who-died-in-motorcycle-crash-listed-as-coronavirus-death

[navybankerteacher]

20 minutes ago, Toofarfromthesea said:

 

The complete lack of details tells the story.  When and where was the purported party?  Who was the patient?  What was the nurse's name so we can get a first hand account, not a third hand account?  Were there contributing co-morbidities.

...

Of course that story is probably just a bit of urban legend — but I can see how important it is for you to have some way - any way - of trivializing a pandemic which is now close to taking  200,000 US lives in its first five months - and is now gaining headway in most states —- largely because there are so many who are unable to take it seriously.

[neverbeenhere]

hipaa.

[ilikeanswers]

21 hours ago, navybankerteacher said:

Hardly a “total hoax” - someone certainly died, that someone obviously contracted it somewhere- and he would not have contracted it had he stayed away from wherever it was that he contracted it - or had practiced distancing.

 

How have you verified your contention that “not one single fact in that story was able to be verified”?  

 

6 hours ago, Toofarfromthesea said:

The complete lack of details tells the story.  When and where was the purported party?  Who was the patient?  What was the nurse's name so we can get a first hand account, not a third hand account?  

 

'I thought this was a hoax': Patient in 30s dies after attending 'COVID party'

[simplelife]

On 7/12/2020 at 8:04 AM, ontheweb said:

A new large scale study down in Spain has shown that herd immunity cannot be reached (or at least before a significant death toll).

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-53315983

I think we knew this all along, but we needed a study for hard data