Will you cruise if vaccination is mandatory in order to board?

[sparks1093]

On 2/12/2021 at 2:29 PM, Thrak said:

I see a lot of discussion regarding whether or not folks will cruise if masks are required. I wonder how many will refuse to cruise if vaccination is mandatory.  My wife and I are waiting for our second dose so we have no issue with this "possible" requirement. (We obviously don't know if this will ever be a requirement.) What is your view? As with the thread on masks, I'm just looking for a YES or NO answer.

 

Will you cruise if vaccination is mandatory in order to board?

Haven't read through the responses but we intend to get the vaccine as soon as we are able and cruising has nothing to do with it.

[sparks1093]

On 2/12/2021 at 2:38 PM, Daniel A said:

Yes - My question is: Will you cruise if they don't require a vaccination?

Yes, because we will have been vaccinated.

[sparks1093]

On 2/12/2021 at 2:52 PM, Thrak said:

 

I would care if those who aren't vaccinated caused the cruise to be cut short or the ship to be quarantined.

Which is a possibility for any number of other reasons. I won't let those concerns stop us.

[gmjc2]

My husband and I have had both Moderna shots. He has had no reactions at all. I had a mild reaction to the first shot. Nausea and dizziness for about 20 mins at the pharmacy. No reaction to the second shot on Saturday.

 

We get our flu shots every year and neither one of us has ever had the flu in all these years.

 

I have 5 different medical issues and would not dream of passing on the vaccine. Those that cannot take the vaccine need to be protected by us taking the vaccine. It is a no brainer! 

[Ride-The-Waves]

For the anti-vaxxers and COVID deniers out there suggest read "tails from the pandemic" about a 30-y/o woman who played college soccer and has been infected with "long haul" COVID-19:

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2021/02/15/long-hauler-covid/?arc404=true

 

I caught this virus before anyone had even died in Illinois. That was like a century ago, right? Now we’re talking about Year Two, vaccines, new variants, a new administration, but for me it’s still exactly the same. I’m always in this bed. I’m always in this room. I’ve been sick for the last 330 days. I force myself to keep track because otherwise time doesn’t move. I feel like I’m in jail and putting tally marks on the wall.

I used to go to sleep thinking: Tomorrow. Tomorrow I’ll start to feel better. I don’t really do that as much anymore. I’m trying to come to terms with the fact that this virus isn’t something I’m about to get over. This might be it. Maybe this is who I am.

 

I wake up every morning, and I brace myself. What’s it going to be today? I’m what they call a “long-hauler,” where covid takes over your body and won’t go away. Doctors think there might be tens of thousands of us, but nobody really knows. It’s a medical mystery. It’s like a random grab bag of symptoms. You reach in, and you never know what you’re going to get. How about some nausea and severe dizziness? Or would you prefer a migraine with a side of joint pain? Some issues are constant, like body aches and head-to-toe fatigue, but the weirder ones seem to randomly come and go: ringing ears, sore ribs, heart palpitations, ear popping, numbness in my fingers, excessive mouth watering, lightheadedness, brain fog. My memory loss is so bad sometimes that it’s like I have amnesia. The other day, I woke up and wanted to put on running clothes. In my head, I thought I was going for a jog and then heading in to work, but as soon as I stood up, my heart rate started spiking, and it was like: Oh yeah. I can’t even walk around the block by myself. I don’t have a job anymore. I’m on disability. What am I thinking?

 

This virus has to be fought with everything we have.  Denying it exists, denying its voracity, denying its damage to humans just won't work.  It's not about getting to cruise again, in whatever form that implies, it's about survival.  It's about not knowing if you are next.  It is a horrible fate to be a "long hauler."  It affects all humans of all colors of all beliefs of both genders.  Let's work together to rid humanity of this scourge.  I've had my two shots.  You?

 

Do your part: get the vaccine, use PPE, social distance and wash hands regularly.

 

 

 

[HxFx]

17 hours ago, Daniel A said:

The CDC link you provided also states "These quarantine recommendations for vaccinated persons, including the criteria for timing since receipt of the last dose in the vaccination series, will be updated when more data become available and additional COVID-19 vaccines are authorized."

 

In effect, the CDC is saying they are keeping an open mind as they watch the full effect of the vaccines, especially in the area regarding the timing since getting the last shot.  Right now all they know is 3 months because for the most part they only have 3 months worth of data to examine.  As time goes on it is likely that 3 month figure will be subject to change.

Thank you, I was merely pointing out why some might think the vaccine could be required 4 times a year. I have no doubt the recommendations will continue to be updated.

[HxFx]

10 minutes ago, Ride-The-Waves said:

For the anti-vaxxers and COVID deniers out there

This is why it's hard to have a real discussion. If anyone has any questions about the vaccines or COVID restrictions this is how they are labeled. Science requires debate.

[wowzz]

7 minutes ago, HxFx said:

This is why it's hard to have a real discussion. If anyone has any questions about the vaccines or COVID restrictions this is how they are labeled. Science requires debate.

There has been plenty of debate - and the answer is that the vaccines are safe, and that the more people are vaccinated, the safer the world will be. There has been no reputable scientific evidence to the contrary.

Discuss all you like, but it won't change the science.  

[capriccio]

15 hours ago, cruisemom42 said:

 

I also want to nip in the bud this idea of "suppressed" side effects. Any adverse effects of any approved vaccine in the US are tracked through the The Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System (VAERS) which receives approximately 45,000 reports filed each year by health care professionals, vaccine manufacturers, and members of the public (and it is a requirement for the first two to do so). This safety surveillance program is continuously monitored by the FDA for unexpected patterns or changes in rates of adverse events associated with vaccines. This data is available to the public, minus any personal identifiers. 

 

When we received each of our shots, I was very impressed to be handed an envelop full of information including a four page "Answering Your Questions About the New COVID-19 Vaccines" that had an entire page devoted to Safety Monitoring Systems and Information Sources.

 

One of the new systems is v-safe, "a smartphone-based tools that uses text messaging and web surveys to provide personalized health check-ins after you receive a COVID-19 vaccination.  Through v-safe you can quickly tell CDC if you have any side effects after getting the COVID-19 vaccine.  Depending on your answers someone from CDC may call to check in on you."

 

V-safe sends a text message each day during the first week after receiving the vaccine to see you you are doing by asking a half a dozen multiple choice questions.  It also provides telephone follow up if you report medically significant adverse events. After the first week, they send the survey once a week up to 5 weeks.  After the second dose the 6 week process begins again followed by contact at 3, 6, and 12 months after the final dose of the vaccine.

 

We are pleased to be contributing to the data collection on both the efficacy and potential side effects of the vaccine. The only side effects we had was a sore arm (after both doses for me; only after the first for my DH.

[Joebucks]

14 hours ago, navybankerteacher said:

 If you fail to be part of the critical mass required to achieve herd immunity, you can be seen as jeopardizing those people who, for genuine health reasons (not for ignorant luddite anti-vaxing superstition) are unable to accept vaccine.

 

If your reluctance to join in the effort to control Covid prolongs the pandemic you are jeopardizing a lot of peoples' return to normal. including cruising.

 

You do not need an "official script" --- just an ability to think beyond your own narrow perceived (probably misperceived) interests.

 

Fair enough point. But understand that is hoping for an eradication or near eradication of the virus to protect those who are at risk of covid and cannot take a vaccine. When you think about where COVID came from, where it is now, and all of the variable, it's quite the goal. 

 

10 hours ago, ldubs said:

 

I responded to your comment about the flu vaccine.   You seem to think it is some kind of dramatic revelation that the flu vaccine is less than 100% effective and that it is modified to be responsive to the seasonal strain.  And now you seem to be saying that if everyone had the flu vaccine it would do nothing.   I am so sorry, but there is nothing subjective about the benefits of the flu vaccines.   Reality is against you on that one.   Anyway, if this drama is supposed to convince me to avoid the Covid vaccine --   No thanks.  

 

My point is that the vaccine is seen as the savior of return to normal life and we have evidence that it traditionally hasn't happened like that with highly communicable viruses. It is a fact that if everyone had the flu vaccine, the flu wouldn't go away. A strain or two might. A ~40% effective rate isn't an opinion that you can debate. The science changes at least annually. The debate is if making it "better" is worth the enforcement. That is the question as old as time.

 

1 hour ago, HxFx said:

This is why it's hard to have a real discussion. If anyone has any questions about the vaccines or COVID restrictions this is how they are labeled. Science requires debate.

 

It's pretty unreal. Remember that time when science was finalized and never debated again? Me neither.  Some need to pause right there and just stop if they can't accept that point. We rushed to get these vaccines and are already being told that they might not work on the new strains. That is a serious concern that we just brush off like it is nothing. How god awful am I for questioning it!? Many people seem conditioned to attack specific logic and concerns only to repeat the same lines.

 

I am not in the "anti-vax" crowd no matter how many times people think a debate slaps an absolute label on you. There are some I definitely agree with. There have been many times in the past where a vaccine has paid dividends. Inversely, there have been many times where a vaccine was unnecessary, and/or even left some unwanted side effects. I am absolutely not for rushing anything, or being first no matter how bad I want to enjoy a luxury. It's also quite unprecedented that we need everyone to take something for the off chance someone's immune system is so bad that they cannot risk getting COVID or the vaccine, but they can cruise. Like they are so deathly fragile but the flu, noro, etc are just fine? 

 

[c-boy]

well Joe from Ohio, things are looking up for ya.  At this rate you will be saving postage on sending out holiday cards to family and friends. 

[ldubs]

19 minutes ago, Joebucks said:

 

My point is that the vaccine is seen as the savior of return to normal life and we have evidence that it traditionally hasn't happened like that with highly communicable viruses. It is a fact that if everyone had the flu vaccine, the flu wouldn't go away. A strain or two might. A ~40% effective rate isn't an opinion that you can debate. The science changes at least annually. The debate is if making it "better" is worth the enforcement. That is the question as old as time.

 

 

OK, let's talk making it "better".  Since you are using the flu as a comparison, let's take a look at the following bullet points about the influenza vaccines from the CDC.  Pretty darn good results for something that is only 40% - 60% effective.  

 

• • Flu vaccine prevents millions of illnesses and flu-related doctor’s visits each year. For example, during 2019-2020, flu vaccination prevented an estimated 7.5 million influenza illnesses, 3.7 million influenza-associated medical visits, 105,000 influenza-associated hospitalizations, and 6,300 influenza-associated deaths.
  • During seasons when the flu vaccine viruses are similar to circulating flu viruses, flu vaccine has been shown to reduce the risk of having to go to the doctor with flu by 40 percent to 60 percent.

 

The corona virus is several magnitudes worse than influenza.  If anything deserves a full court press this is it.   In fact since we exchanged posts yesterday another 3,000 American's have died because of it.   The COVID vaccine does not have to eradicate corona virus to be effective.  The benefit is saving lives, controlling the pandemic, and allowing us to return to some semblance of normal.  

 

I'm not sure I completely follow your comment about the debate being if the COVID vaccine is worth the enforcement.  Do you mean on cruise ships?  If so, yes I am among those that believe it is well worth the enforcement.   Beyond that, as things stand, folks may elect to not take the vaccine as long as they take responsibility for their decision.   

 

BTW, if you were referring to the influenza vaccine, I might not agree with your wording that the science changes every year, because that might imply there was something wrong with the science.  I think it more accurate to say the flu vaccine changes every year to match the expected strain of flu, as it should.

 

Anyway, in this case we might not agree, but I appreciate that we can keep a civil discussion.    

 

[Ride-The-Waves]

3 hours ago, HxFx said:

This is why it's hard to have a real discussion. If anyone has any questions about the vaccines or COVID restrictions this is how they are labeled. Science requires debate.

Science is factual.  Opinion requires debate.  

[kirtihk]

3 hours ago, Ride-The-Waves said:

For the anti-vaxxers and COVID deniers out there suggest read "tails from the pandemic" about a 30-y/o woman who played college soccer and has been infected with "long haul" COVID-19:

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2021/02/15/long-hauler-covid/?arc404=true

 

I caught this virus before anyone had even died in Illinois. That was like a century ago, right? Now we’re talking about Year Two, vaccines, new variants, a new administration, but for me it’s still exactly the same. I’m always in this bed. I’m always in this room. I’ve been sick for the last 330 days. I force myself to keep track because otherwise time doesn’t move. I feel like I’m in jail and putting tally marks on the wall.

I used to go to sleep thinking: Tomorrow. Tomorrow I’ll start to feel better. I don’t really do that as much anymore. I’m trying to come to terms with the fact that this virus isn’t something I’m about to get over. This might be it. Maybe this is who I am.

 

I wake up every morning, and I brace myself. What’s it going to be today? I’m what they call a “long-hauler,” where covid takes over your body and won’t go away. Doctors think there might be tens of thousands of us, but nobody really knows. It’s a medical mystery. It’s like a random grab bag of symptoms. You reach in, and you never know what you’re going to get. How about some nausea and severe dizziness? Or would you prefer a migraine with a side of joint pain? Some issues are constant, like body aches and head-to-toe fatigue, but the weirder ones seem to randomly come and go: ringing ears, sore ribs, heart palpitations, ear popping, numbness in my fingers, excessive mouth watering, lightheadedness, brain fog. My memory loss is so bad sometimes that it’s like I have amnesia. The other day, I woke up and wanted to put on running clothes. In my head, I thought I was going for a jog and then heading in to work, but as soon as I stood up, my heart rate started spiking, and it was like: Oh yeah. I can’t even walk around the block by myself. I don’t have a job anymore. I’m on disability. What am I thinking?

 

This virus has to be fought with everything we have.  Denying it exists, denying its voracity, denying its damage to humans just won't work.  It's not about getting to cruise again, in whatever form that implies, it's about survival.  It's about not knowing if you are next.  It is a horrible fate to be a "long hauler."  It affects all humans of all colors of all beliefs of both genders.  Let's work together to rid humanity of this scourge.  I've had my two shots.  You?

 

Do your part: get the vaccine, use PPE, social distance and wash hands regularly.

 

 

 

"and wash hands regularly" - I have no idea why this statement just started circulation last March.  Seriously, it is what one learns from birth day after day, isn't it?  We were supposed to laugh at the Jack's character in "As good as it gets", and now all of a sudden we are addressed to as little kids ("wash your hands, wash your hands, wash your hands, ...").  It appears as hypocrisy.

 

"social distance" - to turn away and keep away from the society; perhaps, physical distance, or just distance 

[seejay43]

Definitely - already vaccinated.  Would not wish to travel with un-vaccinated passengers as even with vaccines there is still a risk. Vaccines not necessarily 100% effective.

[ldubs]

4 hours ago, HxFx said:

This is why it's hard to have a real discussion. If anyone has any questions about the vaccines or COVID restrictions this is how they are labeled. Science requires debate.

 

I think it is unfair for anyone asking a question to be attacked.  Though that seems to be the nature of forums.  The problem with asking a question about the vaccine on a forum is that the answers will be across the board and probably should not be relied upon.  

 

If by questioning you mean expressing doubt about the vaccine, I think it depends.  I understand some may be concerned about vaccine side effects and there are some friendly discussions about that.  And I have to admit some not so friendly ones too.   Sadly there are some off-the-wall theories from the foil hat crowd that serve no useful purpose.  I'm tired of hearing that stuff.  

[ldubs]

57 minutes ago, kirtihk said:

"and wash hands regularly" - I have no idea why this statement just started circulation last March.  Seriously, it is what one learns from birth day after day, isn't it?  We were supposed to laugh at the Jack's character in "As good as it gets", and now all of a sudden we are addressed to as little kids ("wash your hands, wash your hands, wash your hands, ...").  It appears as hypocrisy.

 

"social distance" - to turn away and keep away from the society; perhaps, physical distance, or just distance 

 

Perhaps it happened in March because of the world-wide pandemic. 

 

Movies are for entertainment.   Not to be confused with real life guidance from CDC.  

 

I don't understand your comment about social distance.   

[navybankerteacher]

4 hours ago, HxFx said:

This is why it's hard to have a real discussion. If anyone has any questions about the vaccines or COVID restrictions this is how they are labeled. Science requires debate.

Yes - “...Science requires debate.”

 

  And who more competent to conduct that debate than the competent and educated scientists who virtually universally have concluded the safety of the vaccines and the necessity of heaving them applied as widely and as soon as possible.

 

Of course, they did not discuss their conclusions with the contributors to the supermarket tabloids and anonymous websites which support the Luddite antivaxers.

[tosteve1]

All in favor of hard science and have already had the vax. I wonder, though, if any COVID models predicted a 75% drop in cases in one month. I expected cases to decline but not quite so dramatically!

[TheOldBear]

26 minutes ago, tosteve1 said:

All in favor of hard science and have already had the vax. I wonder, though, if any COVID models predicted a 75% drop in cases in one month. I expected cases to decline but not quite so dramatically!

The tests may not quite be the same - for example the PCR test cycle threshold may have been adjusted lower making the test less sensitive.

 

[Toofarfromthesea]

6 hours ago, gmjc2 said:

My husband and I have had both Moderna shots. He has had no reactions at all. I had a mild reaction to the first shot. Nausea and dizziness for about 20 mins at the pharmacy. No reaction to the second shot on Saturday.

 

We get our flu shots every year and neither one of us has ever had the flu in all these years.

 

I have 5 different medical issues and would not dream of passing on the vaccine. Those that cannot take the vaccine need to be protected by us taking the vaccine. It is a no brainer! 

 

Yet they are telling us that just because you are vaccinated that doesn't mean you still can't infected someone else (hence the continuing requirements of masks and social distancing) .  So if that is correct, people getting the vaccine are not protecting those who cannot get the vaccine, because they can still infect them.

There is also the inconvenient fact that if a ship has 2,000 pax and every single one is vaccinated you still may have 120 covid cases emerge, since the most optimistic measures show 94% effectiveness.

[Toofarfromthesea]

2 hours ago, Ride-The-Waves said:

Science is factual.  Opinion requires debate.  

 

How is that possible in a post-modern world where we are told that facts, even self-evident ones like 2 + 2 =4, do not exist?

And even if THAT were not the case, there are far too many things throughout history that were embraced as 'facts' by science that turned out to be completely wrong.  E.g., does your Dr. still bleed you to rectify the humors?    There is a big difference between what science can say, i.e., that this is the state of our current understanding, and claiming to be factual.  

[ontheweb]

1 hour ago, tosteve1 said:

All in favor of hard science and have already had the vax. I wonder, though, if any COVID models predicted a 75% drop in cases in one month. I expected cases to decline but not quite so dramatically!

Part of that drop is of course people getting vaccinated. But the magnitude of the drop is also a reflection of the drop was from an all time high. The all time high was predicted and came about because of holiday travel.

[tosteve1]

2 hours ago, ontheweb said:

Part of that drop is of course people getting vaccinated. But the magnitude of the drop is also a reflection of the drop was from an all time high. The all time high was predicted and came about because of holiday travel.

Yeah, but....don’t think anybody predicted it. If you have a link to a model that predicted a drop like this,  I’d love to see it. Very curious about the models that inform public health decisions. Of course, nothing is perfect. That’s science.  But the only predictions I’ve ever seen suggest that things will get worse. Forever.  

[Daniel A]

1 minute ago, tosteve1 said:

Yeah, but....don’t think anybody predicted it. If you have a link to a model that predicted a drop like this,  I’d love to see it. Very curious about the models that inform public health decisions. Of course, nothing is perfect. That’s science.  But the only predictions I’ve ever seen suggest that things will get worse. Forever.  

Isn't meteorology science too?  They state they can accurately predict what the weather will be like in 10 years but they still get tomorrow's weather wrong.  In my next life, I want a job where I continue to have the job even when I keep getting it wrong.  😄