Will you cruise if vaccination is mandatory in order to board?

[sverigecruiser]

7 hours ago, Charles4515 said:

 

There have been 56,000,0000 doses given in the USA and no one has died. Reported Covid cases in the USA are 27,000,000 with 485,000 deaths. Seems obvious where the risk is but maybe you are in the Flat Earth society? 

 

I did say "There are now signs of that right now" so I absolutely agree with you. Why do you think that I'm in the Flat Earth society when I say that there seems to be no major risk with the vaccine?   

[LCWatson]

Not right now. 
Maybe eventually...but not for at least a few years. 
I know this isn’t the popular answer, but know that many people are in agreement who don’t want to respond since it is a touchy subject and they don’t want arguments from strangers. Neither do I, so please don’t leave nasty responses or try to argue..I won’t engage with that. I assume we are all adults here & should act as such. This is my opinion after doing my own research and I am entitled to it.

I suffer from long term side effects from inhalers given to me as a child that weren’t tested properly and subsequently damaged my airways and connective tissue before being pulled from the market with no proper explanation...so I research things fully & am skeptical of new vaccines or medications.  

The RNA Messenger Vaccine is still in experimental stages, and has not been something that has been mass tested in humans up until now. RNA, yes...but NOT RNA messenger. It also does not even fit the definition of a vaccine, and is really a gene therapy, and has not been proven to stop the spread of Covid, only “possibly” lessen symptoms if you catch the disease. 
https://thevaccinereaction.org/2021/01/who-fauci-warn-covid-19-vaccines-may-not-prevent-infection-and-disease-transmission/

This was Fast tracked in a matter on months, when it should take 7-10 years of testing before being released on the masses...so we do not know what the long term side effects will be. 
Anyone getting this vaccine now is willingly taking part in the experiment & would not have been able to be given informed consent by a physician, since long term side effects in humans are unknown...we only know that in animal studies that animals died upon re-exposure to the disease after this type of vaccination, which is why the RNA Messenger Vaccine for SARS-COV1 never made it to human trials.

 
Until long term side effects & efficacy are known, it should NOT be something that is required or pushed on people for travel, shopping, schooling, medical care, events, etc...Especially for younger people in child bearing years or younger who have long lives ahead of them. If people are fearful or high risk of Covid, they should continue taking extra precautions until then (including the vaccine if they choose to), & not try to push this amongst the masses who may not feel comfortable partaking in this Vaccine while this is so new. 

I hope everyone stays safe & well! Please do your research and be careful. 

[Joebucks]

19 hours ago, Charles4515 said:

 

There have been 56,000,0000 doses given in the USA and no one has died. Reported Covid cases in the USA are 27,000,000 with 485,000 deaths. Seems obvious where the risk is but maybe you are in the Flat Earth society? 

 

It's not always about instant death. There is no such thing as medicine that is side-effect free. Very few outlets actively parade side effects of anything. Big pharma doesn't allow that beyond what is legally required.

 

They are already talking about having to tweak the vaccines to cover the different variants. So what happens if you get vaccinated and another strain hits the cruise just like highly-contagious viruses act? We have multiple vaccines from multiple companies, all with mere months of testing. Do we need to get an updated shot for every new strain? Sorry if I am a nut not waiting first in line to inject myself with it. For as much as I want to cruise, that desperation in wanting the old life back and the fear in the numbers you posted isn't enough to convince me I want this yet.

 

To have any concern makes you a science denier and flat earth society. Never mind the decades of evidence we have with the flu vaccine. It has not eradicated the flu. It cannot account for all of the strains that change constantly. Hundreds of thousands still die every year from a disease we know a lot about and have a vaccine for. Proponents of the COVID vaccine can't wait for you to finish your argument about the flu vaccine so they can completely ignore it as something that has no bearings on anything. 

[cruisemom42]

24 minutes ago, Joebucks said:

Never mind the decades of evidence we have with the flu vaccine. It has not eradicated the flu.

 

Why does it have to be like the flu? Coronavirus is not the same as influenza virus.

 

Vaccines that do not need to be taken annually:

• Measles, mumps and rubella (MMR) -- given as 2 doses in infants/young children
• Diphtheria, tetanus and pertussis -- given as 5 doses across childhood, booster in adolescents
• Chickenpox/varicella -- 2 doses, given in childhood 
• Polio -- 4 doses, given in childhood
• Haemophilus influenzae type b (Hib) -- 3-4 doses in infants/young children
• Meningococcal disease -- 1 or possibly 2 doses during teenage years
• Hepatitis A/B -- Depending on series can be 3 shots (2 HepA only; 3 for Hep A/B combo)
• Rotavirus -- 2 doses or 3 doses in infants
• Pneumococcal -- 4 doses in infancy or 1 in adults
• Shingles -- 2 doses in those 50+ years 

 

It's a shame we couldn't have eradicated COVID-19 by collective lockdowns in the early days, in which case it would be much less likely that we would be in this situation and dealing with variants. But many virologist are still hopeful that a) variants will continue to emerge slowly (unlike the seasonal flu) and that vaccines will, for the most part, be effective against them. 

 

Here, a couple of excerpts from an interview with an expert whose lab is involved in helping the state of California detect new variants:

 

SARS-CoV-2, like other coronaviruses, is generally slow to mutate thanks to built-in error-correcting proteins that fix most mistakes in replication. It generally accumulates one or two mutations per month, but the vast majority of mutations do not change the properties of the virus, such as its transmissibility.

 

Chiu said it’s very unlikely that the current vaccines will not be effective against the new variant. The two mRNA vaccines from Pfizer and Moderna produce the entire spike protein, meaning someone who is vaccinated will usually generate a variety of antibodies that target different locations on the spike. “So essentially you would need to have mutations everywhere along the protein for a variant to elude all potential neutralizing antibodies,” said Chiu.

 

(For those who can't read double-negative, that means it is very likely that current vaccines will be effective, albeit there is a chance that they will be "slightly less effective" than against the original strains.)  👍 This seems especially true for the mRNA vaccines vs. traditional ones.

 

And for those who are in "wait and see" mode regarding vaccination, he also said:

 

"The longer the pandemic lasts, the more time the virus will have to acquire additional mutations. “The key question is can we control the pandemic in time to prevent the virus from becoming even more infectious, more deadly, or more resistant to existing therapies and vaccines,” said Chiu.

 

https://www.ucsf.edu/news/2021/01/419561/how-worried-should-you-be-about-new-coronavirus-variant

 

[evandbob]

The debate about vax safety can occur shoreside as anyone serious enough not to get vaxxed can't board.

 

Enjoy your debate while only vaxxed people set sail.  I'll feel better on board and so will the non vaxxed on land, what's the issue?  Sounds like a win/win.

[tosteve1]

15 hours ago, Momma Mojito said:

Yes and I feel it should be a requirement for everyone who is on the ship

I’m hoping it will be a requirement for other activities as well. Concerts, most forms of travel etc. I’m currently contemplating a party for our business office...proof of vaccine required!

[clo]

3 minutes ago, tosteve1 said:

I’m hoping it will be a requirement for other activities as well. Concerts, most forms of travel etc. I’m currently contemplating a party for our business office...proof of vaccine required!

And masks and social distancing, right?

 

[kirtihk]

7 minutes ago, cruisemom42 said:

 

Why does it have to be like the flu? Coronavirus is not the same as influenza virus.

 

Vaccines that do not need to be taken annually:

• Measles, mumps and rubella (MMR) -- given as 2 doses in infants/young children
• Diphtheria, tetanus and pertussis -- given as 5 doses across childhood, booster in adolescents
• Chickenpox/varicella -- 2 doses, given in childhood 
• Polio -- 4 doses, given in childhood
• Haemophilus influenzae type b (Hib) -- 3-4 doses in infants/young children
• Meningococcal disease -- 1 or possibly 2 doses during teenage years
• Hepatitis A/B -- Depending on series can be 3 shots (2 HepA only; 3 for Hep A/B combo)
• Rotavirus -- 2 doses or 3 doses in infants
• Pneumococcal -- 4 doses in infancy or 1 in adults
• Shingles -- 2 doses in those 50+ years 

 

It's a shame we couldn't have eradicated COVID-19 by collective lockdowns in the early days, in which case it would be much less likely that we would be in this situation and dealing with variants. But many virologist are still hopeful that a) variants will continue to emerge slowly (unlike the seasonal flu) and that vaccines will, for the most part, be effective against them. 

 

Here, a couple of excerpts from an interview with an expert whose lab is involved in helping the state of California detect new variants:

 

SARS-CoV-2, like other coronaviruses, is generally slow to mutate thanks to built-in error-correcting proteins that fix most mistakes in replication. It generally accumulates one or two mutations per month, but the vast majority of mutations do not change the properties of the virus, such as its transmissibility.

 

Chiu said it’s very unlikely that the current vaccines will not be effective against the new variant. The two mRNA vaccines from Pfizer and Moderna produce the entire spike protein, meaning someone who is vaccinated will usually generate a variety of antibodies that target different locations on the spike. “So essentially you would need to have mutations everywhere along the protein for a variant to elude all potential neutralizing antibodies,” said Chiu.

 

(For those who can't read double-negative, that means it is very likely that current vaccines will be effective, albeit there is a chance that they will be "slightly less effective" than against the original strains.)  👍 This seems especially true for the mRNA vaccines vs. traditional ones.

 

And for those who are in "wait and see" mode regarding vaccination, he also said:

 

"The longer the pandemic lasts, the more time the virus will have to acquire additional mutations. “The key question is can we control the pandemic in time to prevent the virus from becoming even more infectious, more deadly, or more resistant to existing therapies and vaccines,” said Chiu.

 

https://www.ucsf.edu/news/2021/01/419561/how-worried-should-you-be-about-new-coronavirus-variant

 

COVID-19 could become a seasonal illness like the flu, experts say - ABC News (go.com)

 

The global society overnight (in March 2020) became the satirical representation of the war-like question "the right way to open a boiled egg - from the big or little end?".

[ldubs]

14 hours ago, sverigecruiser said:

 

I did say "There are now signs of that right now" so I absolutely agree with you. Why do you think that I'm in the Flat Earth society when I say that there seems to be no major risk with the vaccine?   

 

Yeah, I don't quite understand some of the responses to your original comment.  If there were evidence of vaccine risk, I would also consider which risk I would want to take.  Especially if I were younger.  But there is no hint of risk right now, so it isn't a choice I have to make.   Not really controversial.  I think folks may be misunderstanding.   

[Toofarfromthesea]

21 hours ago, clo said:

What we don't know yet is how often we're going to be vaccinated. Four times a year perhaps?

 

Did the studies even evaluate potential problems with getting the vaccine repeatedly?

[cruisemom42]

21 hours ago, clo said:

What we don't know yet is how often we're going to be vaccinated. Four times a year perhaps?

 

Why would you think it would be so frequent?

[NikiPinkston]

There have been several comments here about animals being vaccinated and later dying when exposed to covid, which makes no sense to me, and the only link I could find is this one debunking that:

https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-factcheck-mice/fact-check-a-2012-study-did-not-use-mrna-vaccines-or-result-in-animals-dying-from-disease-idUSKBN2A22UW  So, where did this info come from?

I've also read here several times that "500 people have died" after being vaccinated.  I'd love to see a link to that, also.  BTW, I'm on the list and am just waiting for a call to be vaccinated and, yes, I hope the vaccine is required for cruising and all other forms of travel.

[Sky616]

Nope not a chance.  Not being a guinea pig.  They will lose tons of business especially younger people. Never got the flu shot in my life as well.

Edited February 15, 2021 by Sky616

[Sky616]

22 hours ago, Charles4515 said:

 

There have been 56,000,0000 doses given in the USA and no one has died. Reported Covid cases in the USA are 27,000,000 with 485,000 deaths. Seems obvious where the risk is but maybe you are in the Flat Earth society? 

Do  you have proof of that or is that what CNN told you?

[ldubs]

1 hour ago, Joebucks said:

 

 

To have any concern makes you a science denier and flat earth society. Never mind the decades of evidence we have with the flu vaccine. It has not eradicated the flu. It cannot account for all of the strains that change constantly. Hundreds of thousands still die every year from a disease we know a lot about and have a vaccine for. Proponents of the COVID vaccine can't wait for you to finish your argument about the flu vaccine so they can completely ignore it as something that has no bearings on anything. 

  

I'm so tired of this argument primarily because it is not an argument for anything.  As a whole we are incredibly better off having the flu vaccines.  Thank god we have the science to respond to the changing flu strains annually.   Like most things in life, that they are not 100% effective does not mean they should be avoided.  It just doesn't make sense.    

 

 

 

[clo]

10 minutes ago, cruisemom42 said:

 

Why would you think it would be so frequent?

I could have sworn I read that but not finding it. So I apologize. They simply don't have the data but I saw no mention of vaccinations that oftene.

[clo]

4 minutes ago, Sky616 said:

Never got the flu shot in my life as well.

So you don't have grandkids, do you? I wasn't religious about it until the first one was born. We do it for them now.

[HxFx]

26 minutes ago, cruisemom42 said:

 

Why would you think it would be so frequent?

On another thread (CDC today says no need to quarantine after vaccine if exposed to Covid) it  was posted that the CDC is considering rules that if you are "within 3 months following receipt of the last dose in the series" you won't have to quarantine. That would seem to indicate they see possibly taking the vaccine 4 times a year. This is the link posted: https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/covid-19/info-by-product/clinical-considerations.html

[cruisemom42]

1 minute ago, HxFx said:

On another thread (CDC today says no need to quarantine after vaccine if exposed to Covid) it  was posted that the CDC is considering rules that if you are "within 3 months following receipt of the last dose in the series" you won't have to quarantine. That would seem to indicate they see possibly taking the vaccine 4 times a year. This is the link posted: https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/covid-19/info-by-product/clinical-considerations.html

 

I'm fairly sure the reason given for the short time frame is because we do not AS YET have proof of long-term protection. But most experts expect to see it.

 

CDC is being cautious, in other words. And this period will probably be extended when they have the proof.  Causing COVIDiots everywhere to lose their collective minds and say CDC has changed their minds YET AGAIN....

[donaldsc]

30 minutes ago, Sky616 said:

Nope not a chance.  Not being a guinea pig.  They will lose tons of business especially younger people. Never got the flu shot in my life as well.

 

Looking at it from a business viewpoint, I would guess that the cruising population is skewed to the older population group.  Most of this group will get their shots as soon as they can and will not cruise if vaccinations are not required.  Also, many of the younger group will also get their shots ASAP and will probably feel that vaccinations should be required.  If these assumptions are true, the cruise companies are better off financially just writing off your business as opposed to catering to your group and writing off the older and also the vaccinated younger population.  The business that they will get from your group is just marginal.

 

DON

[Daniel A]

40 minutes ago, HxFx said:

On another thread (CDC today says no need to quarantine after vaccine if exposed to Covid) it  was posted that the CDC is considering rules that if you are "within 3 months following receipt of the last dose in the series" you won't have to quarantine. That would seem to indicate they see possibly taking the vaccine 4 times a year. This is the link posted: https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/covid-19/info-by-product/clinical-considerations.html

The CDC link you provided also states "These quarantine recommendations for vaccinated persons, including the criteria for timing since receipt of the last dose in the vaccination series, will be updated when more data become available and additional COVID-19 vaccines are authorized."

 

In effect, the CDC is saying they are keeping an open mind as they watch the full effect of the vaccines, especially in the area regarding the timing since getting the last shot.  Right now all they know is 3 months because for the most part they only have 3 months worth of data to examine.  As time goes on it is likely that 3 month figure will be subject to change.

[sverigecruiser]

1 hour ago, ldubs said:

 

Yeah, I don't quite understand some of the responses to your original comment.  If there were evidence of vaccine risk, I would also consider which risk I would want to take.  Especially if I were younger.  But there is no hint of risk right now, so it isn't a choice I have to make.   Not really controversial.  I think folks may be misunderstanding.   

 

Since I will have to wait for some more months before I will be offered the shot I don't have to decide now but as it looks now I see no reason not to get the shot when it's offered. No signs of any major risks yet, as I said.  

[sverigecruiser]

15 hours ago, sverigecruiser said:

 

I did say "There are now signs of that right now" so I absolutely agree with you. Why do you think that I'm in the Flat Earth society when I say that there seems to be no major risk with the vaccine?   

 

Of course I meant to write "There are no signs of that right now" as I did in the post I quoted.

[Mike45LC]

I am concerned about the rush to get these vaccines to market and the tremendous social pressure being brought to force people to get the shots.  I am told that many reports of adverse reactions to the vaccines have been suppressed -- I don't know if this is true or not, but it is certainly consistent with other (verified) reports of various discussions being suppressed by Big Tech.  These shots are serious medical procedures.  Is it wrong to want medical reports on possible adverse effects?

 

How many of us here are old enough to remember thalidomide?  A supposedly safe and non-addictive sedative (that was as popular as valium and Miltown --remember the Stones' "Mother's Little Helper"?)  in the late '50 and early '60s, until it was determined to cause "flipper babies".  How horrible to the mothers (and the rest of the families) to realize that the "safe drug" their doctors prescribed did that to their babies??  It was all about the science then too!

 

I am sure we all remember fen-phen, a very safe weight-loss regime that caused heart valve problems.  Again, where was the "science" for the millions of ladies who damaged their hearts from the "safe" weight-loss drugs?   

 

So the animosity and anger (misplaced fear?) towards people who want a longer history of use of these vaccines and who do not want to be part of the early-test trials, is not warranted.  Dial it back!  

[clo]

1 hour ago, sverigecruiser said:

 

Since I will have to wait for some more months before I will be offered the shot I don't have to decide now but as it looks now I see no reason not to get the shot when it's offered. No signs of any major risks yet, as I said.  

So have you decided that you'll cruise if masks are required? I seem to remember your being quite adamant about that. Since all the current advice is, even with vaccination, continue with masks and social distancing.