vaccines and cruising

[KEN W]

I received the survey and said yes. My wife and I received the second dose today. We also get the flu shot every year. Better safe than sorry. You have to make the decision yourself if you get the shot. If someone get sick and dies because they didn't get it, that's on them. BUT you do not have the right to give it to someone else so they get sick and die.

 

Looking forward to getting back on a ship again. Especially if it was right now.....

 

We live in Minnesota and the air temp tomorrow morning is supposed to be -30. Even colder north of here.

[clo]

40 minutes ago, navybankerteacher said:

Perhaps you should define “mandatory”.  Does it mean that everyone must have it;  or does it mean that if someone wants to cruise, he must have it?

That IS the point. IMneverHO of course.

[jeremyosborne81]

I love vaccines.

Give me all of them. An immunologist confirmed my immunity to Measles as I was preparing for a trip to SE Asia and wasn't sure about my vaccine status.

I wish they were still giving Smallpox vaccines. I'll take that too.

[clo]

44 minutes ago, jeremyosborne81 said:

I love vaccines.

Give me all of them. An immunologist confirmed my immunity to Measles as I was preparing for a trip to SE Asia and wasn't sure about my vaccine status.

I wish they were still giving Smallpox vaccines. I'll take that too.

I'm like you, I think. Got #2 of the Pfizer today. YAY!

[mom says]

2 hours ago, navybankerteacher said:

Given your apparent degree of certainty on this point :

 

“...no chance in hell... .Zero.”,

 

would you say that at least 81% of the population are certain that far less than 81% would be in favor of mandatory vaccines?

 

Perhaps you should define “mandatory”.  Does it mean that everyone must have it;  or does it mean that if someone wants to cruise, he must have it?

Did you not understand that Joebucks was referring to the OPs post? 

The OP stated 81% were in favor of mandatory vaccination. Period. Full stop. 

First- that would be 81% of the respondents to the survey,  not the population as a whole. And no, one should not take it as a representative sample of the population as a whole, given the limitations of the survey.  

Second, the OP gave misinformation in her first paragraph, since the question was actually about requiring COVID  vaccination as a condition of cruising only. 

 

And given the current polls by actual, professional, pollsters (and not just a writer for CC), Joebucks would be correct that there is no way that 81% would be in favor of mandatory vaccination for all. The actual result of the survey was that 81% were in favor of required vaccinations for cruising. Big difference. And given that the survey was a small  convenience sample of avid cruise fans (and not the average cruiser who doesn't even know about CC),  who are desperate to cruise, the numbers are pretty much meaningless anyway.

Edited February 14, 2021 by mom says

[2wheelin]

7 hours ago, clo said:

Countries? Maybe. Cruise and air lines? No. 

So, you will never fly or cruise again? Figuring out what we need to do means figuring out how to adhere to any imposed requirements. They either do that or don’t operate. Airlines have done a pretty darn good job so far on their own.

[2wheelin]

14 hours ago, jwattle said:

Wow! Your version of "facts" is ... interesting. You do realize that your "immunity" is not proven to be permanent yet? It has been shown that the "immunity" wears off and people have caught COVID again. Also, in people who do NOT have underlying conditions, it can be far worse than the flu. COVID is random in who it attacks, who it becomes "bad" in, who it kills. I'm not just listening blindly; I have had the dubious pleasure of working the emergency response to COVID. 

And how permanent do you think the vaccine produced immunity is? It’s appalling how many people brag that they just recovered from the infection and are now getting the vaccine when so many people who really need it cannot get the vaccine.

 

 

4 hours ago, Ride-The-Waves said:

So much misinformation...  

 

Getting the vaccination helps you AND helps reduce transmission and infecting others.  Period!

 

You are not "naturally immune."  Many people have had COVID-19 multiple times.  Thirtyish woman in the news recently caught COVID-19 in March and has suffered half a dozen relapses.  

 

There is also something called "long COVID."  Person continues to suffer from COVID for months just to has bad as first caught.

 

Yes, so much misinformation! Not proven that the vaccine reduces transmission although it is hoped so.

Have you heard the term urban myth? A few people have had more than one variant but the claim of individuals getting multiple reinfections is just not backed up by science.

Anyone can have a relapse of any disease or condition and that does not indicate even a lack of immunity. Their body is just still fighting the single infection. People go into remission from many diseases and then relapse. That is not considered a new infection. 

 

[Ride-The-Waves]

5 hours ago, 2wheelin said:

And how permanent do you think the vaccine produced immunity is? It’s appalling how many people brag that they just recovered from the infection and are now getting the vaccine when so many people who really need it cannot get the vaccine.

 

 

Yes, so much misinformation! Not proven that the vaccine reduces transmission although it is hoped so.

Have you heard the term urban myth? A few people have had more than one variant but the claim of individuals getting multiple reinfections is just not backed up by science.

Anyone can have a relapse of any disease or condition and that does not indicate even a lack of immunity. Their body is just still fighting the single infection. People go into remission from many diseases and then relapse. That is not considered a new infection. 

 

[capriccio]

5 hours ago, 2wheelin said:

Have you heard the term urban myth? A few people have had more than one variant but the claim of individuals getting multiple reinfections is just not backed up by science.

Anyone can have a relapse of any disease or condition and that does not indicate even a lack of immunity. Their body is just still fighting the single infection. People go into remission from many diseases and then relapse. That is not considered a new infection. 

 

What is absolutely certain is that new data is being discovered daily.

 

From yesterday's Washington Post:  First known patient reinfected with South Africa coronavirus variant is in critical condition (https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2021/02/13/reinfection-south-africa-variant/)

 

A man in France is critically ill with the coronavirus variant first identified in South Africa four months after he was previously infected with the virus — the first recorded reinfection case involving the contagious mutation, according to his doctors.

 

The authors wrote that cases of reinfection like this “remain rare albeit probably underestimated,” urging further investigation into cross-immunity between variants and the effectiveness of vaccines against them.

[ilikeanswers]

It might be your body but it is not your cruise line, airline, tour company or when going to another country even your country😆. They have the right to place any rules that they believe will be best for running their institutions. If they impose vaccines and you don't like it then you will have to seek out alternate forms of entertainment. Travel is not a right and no one and nothing is obligated to guarantee your access to travel.

[evandbob]

Hopefully the cruise lines will make COVID vax a requirement for booking and boarding.  All passengers should have to show proof of vax or they aren't allowed on the ship.  Not 100% guarantee for a safe, carefree sailing, but darn close.

 

If someone doesn't want to be vaxxed, then they don't sail, period.  I'm way in favor of that option.  I don't want a cruise I'm on to get diverted, delayed, rerouted or locked down, and the ports visited don't want unvaxxed persons roaming their countryside, potentially infecting locals.

 

Cruising is voluntary, but if you plan to cruise, get vaxxed, not only for COVID, but also flu, dmpt & possibly pneumonia or any disease endemic to a visited port.  If there was a vax for Noro all cruisers should take it.  Allow enough time precruise for antibodies and immunities to form.

 

JMO, YMMV

[Nic6318]

Hi Cocco

 

I just wondered which set of information has you believing that whatever immunity you currently think you have will last for more than a few months. I haven't read anything to suggest that. Maybe you can share so we can all make a similarly informed decision.

 

Personally I haven't had Covid 19 and unlike you I don't see the benefit to your having been sick. I would much rather get a vaccine that might prevent me from ever getting sick. That's the purpose of developing a vaccine in the first place. I would also like to remind you that since you did get sick once, it could happen again. One may think that you survived it once and you could very well do so again. I have to throw out the possibility that your body apart from getting older may not be able to cope as well if there is repeated exposure. This is certainly true of many other ailments. What information have you read that says you will necessarily fare better if you are reinfected. My understanding has always been that you are far better off not getting sick in the first place. 

[Joebucks]

 

15 hours ago, NikiPinkston said:

In response to the OP's question, I received an email from Cruise Critic with a survey asking if I thought that the vaccine should be required for cruising, to which I replied in the affirmative. I later received another email with the results that 81% of CC members agreed with me. The survey was only for cruising, not mandatory vaccines for all.

 

And this is how "polls" work. Amazing how many people think they are scientific and/or unbiased. It is so incredibly easy to take any point you want to make and say "look, everyone agrees, so should you". Not saying that is what happened in this poll, but also not going to say it did not happen.

 

11 hours ago, navybankerteacher said:

Given your apparent degree of certainty on this point :

 

“...no chance in hell... .Zero.”,

 

would you say that at least 81% of the population are certain that far less than 81% would be in favor of mandatory vaccines?

 

Perhaps you should define “mandatory”.  Does it mean that everyone must have it;  or does it mean that if someone wants to cruise, he must have it?

 

The definition of mandatory is consistent in any application of the word. You are confusing definition and context. 

 

There are obviously people that don't want to take the vaccine. I would disagree with anyone that tells me that is only 19% of the population. There are even people who want the vaccine, but still don't believe it should be mandatory. 81% for it is complete and utter disinformation. Even some of the people "for it" are only in that position because they feel a pressure vs an actual agreement. That is a conversation for another day. 

[NikiPinkston]

12 hours ago, Toofarfromthesea said:

 

FWIW, I never received the survey.  Maybe it was sent out to a random sample of folks on CC?

I think you're right, it was probably just a  random survey.😊  

[c-boy]

16 hours ago, clo said:

Countries? Maybe. Cruise and air lines? No. 

well now hold on there Debbie. Wouldn't it behoove the industry to take steps that ensure it's future ?

Edited February 14, 2021 by c-boy

[Charles4515]

11 hours ago, clo said:

I'm like you, I think. Got #2 of the Pfizer today. YAY!

 

Since I travel a lot I got the Hepatitis vaccine.

[NikiPinkston]

1 minute ago, Charles4515 said:

 

Since I travel a lot I got the Hepatitis vaccine.

Yup, me too - hepatitis, flu vaccine every year, pneumonia & shingles vaccines, & I just had my TDAP booster.  I've had pneumonia & it sucks.  Why take the chance of getting sick?

[clo]

9 hours ago, 2wheelin said:

So, you will never fly or cruise again? Figuring out what we need to do means figuring out how to adhere to any imposed requirements. They either do that or don’t operate. Airlines have done a pretty darn good job so far on their own.

Poster was talking about TRUST. I wouldn't put a for-profit corporation in the list of most trusted. We WON'T cruise if the vaccine isn't required. We likely would fly as for 8 to 10 hours we can keep ourselves pretty safe.

[navybankerteacher]

2 hours ago, Joebucks said:

 

 

And this is how "polls" work. Amazing how many people think they are scientific and/or unbiased. It is so incredibly easy to take any point you want to make and say "look, everyone agrees, so should you". Not saying that is what happened in this poll, but also not going to say it did not happen.

 

 

The definition of mandatory is consistent in any application of the word. You are confusing definition and context. 

Not at all - your using the word “mandatory” without specifying the context - of absolute or conditional (say as a prerequisite to cruising) is pointless in quantifying the percentage required. 

2 hours ago, Joebucks said:

There are obviously people that don't want to take the vaccine. I would disagree with anyone that tells me that is only 19% of the population. There are even people who want the vaccine, but still don't believe it should be mandatory. 81% for it is complete and utter disinformation. Even some of the people "for it" are only in that position because they feel a pressure vs an actual agreement. That is a conversation for another day. 

As a practical matter - the jury is still out.  If the educated scientists are correct in their estimates that 85% +/- is necessary to achieve herd immunity, and the infections continue, and enough people suffer and enough of life is disrupted the anti-vaxxers may start to think differently.

 

At this point the numbers currently seeking vaccination - with the education efforts just getting under way - is probably not that far below 81%.  

 

Let’s just see how things play out before stating absolute certainties about what is going to happen.

[Toofarfromthesea]

15 hours ago, cruisemom42 said:

 

 

Are you signed up to receive email from Cruise Critic?

 

Good question.  I don't know.

[Toofarfromthesea]

12 hours ago, mom says said:

Did you not understand that Joebucks was referring to the OPs post? 

The OP stated 81% were in favor of mandatory vaccination. Period. Full stop. 

First- that would be 81% of the respondents to the survey,  not the population as a whole. And no, one should not take it as a representative sample of the population as a whole, given the limitations of the survey.  

Second, the OP gave misinformation in her first paragraph, since the question was actually about requiring COVID  vaccination as a condition of cruising only. 

 

And given the current polls by actual, professional, pollsters (and not just a writer for CC), Joebucks would be correct that there is no way that 81% would be in favor of mandatory vaccination for all. The actual result of the survey was that 81% were in favor of required vaccinations for cruising. Big difference. And given that the survey was a small  convenience sample of avid cruise fans (and not the average cruiser who doesn't even know about CC),  who are desperate to cruise, the numbers are pretty much meaningless anyway.

 

Oh, stop.  You know very well that details like these don't matter in a sound bite world.

[pris993]

21 hours ago, clo said:

Countries? Maybe. Cruise and air lines? No. 

  cruises lines and airlines are following govt regulations, so what is the difference?

 

[clo]

27 minutes ago, pris993 said:

  cruises lines and airlines are following govt regulations, so what is the difference?

 

That you trust them.

[navybankerteacher]

Of course there is one wild card in the speculation about percentage of people getting COVID shot — the fact it is free for everybody removes the penny-pinching motive which must play some part in some peoples’ reluctance to get shots.

[Roz]

12 minutes ago, navybankerteacher said:

the fact it is free for everybody....

 

Is it, in fact, free?  I haven't been able to schedule an appt. yet, but friends, family, and co-workers who have told me they needed to show an insurance card.