Natural immunity and no vaccine shot

[Hangman115]

R

Read the new updated CDC guidebook. Cannot find the answer. Maybe someone can share some advice.

millions and tens of millions who had covid and lived. Science and a few of my doctors saym those who had covid now have buikt up a natural immunity. Sorta like the chicken pox. They do not need a vaccine shot. No science has shown getting a vaccine shot will get them double immunity.
 

So all I see is you MUST get a shot and prove it with you CDC shot card. These tens of millions will not have a card and will not have the shot. So will my two friends be denied boardiing since they have built up natural immunity, according to their doctor?I looked again and still do not see this. What about the n

 

[Flatbush Flyer]

4 minutes ago, Hangman115 said:

R

Read the new updated CDC guidebook. Cannot find the answer. Maybe someone can share some advice.

millions and tens of millions who had covid and lived. Science and a few of my doctors saym those who had covid now have buikt up a natural immunity. Sorta like the chicken pox. They do not need a vaccine shot. No science has shown getting a vaccine shot will get them double immunity.
 

So all I see is you MUST get a shot and prove it with you CDC shot card. These tens of millions will not have a card and will not have the shot. So will my two friends be denied boardiing since they have built up natural immunity, according to their doctor?I looked again and still do not see this. What about the n

 

Fortunately, they will be denied.

Follow the science.

[CruiserBruce]

First, I would do some proof reading.

 

Then I would do some reading of the science. There is evidence that "natural immunity" is far more limited and inconsistently lasting than immunity earned by the vaccine. By the way, this is true in a number of other diseases as well. You have not seen anything in the CDC "guidebook" because there is no science in favor of natural immunity being somehow more beneficial than vaccine provided immunity.

 

What is "double immunity"?

 

You will not get special dispensation by having actually had Covid.

[navybankerteacher]

Can he prove he has COVID?   It is probably a whole lot easier to get the shot than to find, and get, some test to prove that he has that "natural immunity'.

[capriccio]

1 hour ago, Hangman115 said:

Science and a few of my doctors saym those who had covid now have buikt up a natural immunity.

 

If only a few (the minority, I gather) of your doctors are saying you needn't get the shot, why aren't you taking the recommendations of the majority of your doctors?

 

Anecdotally, I know a handful of people who have gotten Covid with cases ranging from mild to serious.  Every single one of them has been told by their respective physicians to get the vaccine. 

[SelectSys]

The virus, if you believe the scientists, is rapidly mutating.  As such, the disease you are exposed to isn't necessarily the same one you had before.  Common sense suggests that a vaccine for a new variant might well be a good idea.

 

Were it starts to get fuzzy for me is when science intersects with commerce. Big pharma is talking about annual booster shots with no end in sight.   Pfizer is talking about "durable demand"  for COVID vaccines like those associated with the flu.

 

While I am most certainly going to follow my doctor's recommendations, it is always curious when science intersects with commercial interest.   

 

Well, it's certainly clear that every crisis creates winners and losers.  COVID is probably the best thing to happen to Pfizer since "V" and is expected to account for 1/3 of all company revenues this year!   

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/business-56979406

Pfizer said it was expecting "durable demand" for the vaccine, in a similar way to flu vaccines.

In the first three months of 2021, the vaccine generated revenues of $3.5bn (£2.5bn) as governments scrambled to try to contain the pandemic.

Revenue from the treatment is expected to hit $26bn this year - accounting for more than one third of Pfizer's sales.

The forecast is based on already-signed contracts for 1.6 billion vaccine doses to be delivered this year.

Pfizer said it expected to sign more deals this year, and was in supply talks with several countries for 2022 and beyond.

 

Edited May 13, 2021 by SelectSys

[Hangman115]

5 hours ago, Flatbush Flyer said:

Fortunately, they will be denied.

Follow the science.

 

 

Thank you to all for your prompt replies.

According to multiple libensed and trained medical professionals. Those who follow the science and save people over many years. They all say the natural immunity is much better than the shot. Remember they FOLLOW the SCIENCE.

I have asked three of my personal doctors. My friends asked their doctor who treated them for covid. I also contacted medical professional friends of mine. Licensed trained medical professionals. One even practing medicine and treating patients for over 30 years. They all agree. Natural immunity is more effective than this shot.

 Yes, the shot is good. Good for those who have not had and survived Covid. That is what the science says.

Tank you all again for your prompt replies. 

[wowzz]

26 minutes ago, Hangman115 said:

 

 

Thank you to all for your prompt replies.

According to multiple libensed and trained medical professionals. Those who follow the science and save people over many years. They all say the natural immunity is much better than the shot. Remember they FOLLOW the SCIENCE.

I have asked three of my personal doctors. My friends asked their doctor who treated them for covid. I also contacted medical professional friends of mine. Licensed trained medical professionals. One even practing medicine and treating patients for over 30 years. They all agree. Natural immunity is more effective than this shot.

 Yes, the shot is good. Good for those who have not had and survived Covid. That is what the science says.

Tank you all again for your prompt replies. 

The only way to get natural immunity, is to become infected with CV19! I'm glad I've gone down the vaccination route.

https://www.immunology.org/news/immunity-and-covid-19-what-do-we-know-so-far

I would change my personal doctors if I were you! 

[sparks1093]

While having COVID might give some immunity, if one wants to participate in an activity where vaccines are a requirement for participation then they would either need to get the vaccine or forego participation.

[Honolulu Blue]

I'm going to tread lightly here...

 

There are a few places around the world that will let people in and/or avoid quarantine if they have either an antibody test or proof of a past positive test.  Unfortunately, I haven't seen any cruise lines accept this alternate proof.

 

I've seen studies that those who have recovered from COVID-19 and received ONE shot get a much bigger boost to their antibody production than people who were never infected and received both shots.  No cruise line accepts this either, but maybe they'll get around to it someday.

[BoozinCroozin]

I am one against worrying about covid from the start. I still think everything should be open 100%, no restrictions. If you leave your home, you know the risk you are willing to take. If you don't want to take it, stay at home. With that said, NCL can make their own rules. Currently, those rules state 100% vaccinated cruises. Like it or leave it, that is their plan. There is no natural immunity.

 

With the CDC's updated guidance, the cruise lines should not be responsible for knowing who is vaccinated and who is not once onboard. There are two separate sets of rules that have to be followed. This would require individual passengers needing to be policed whenever they are out of their cabin. I don't see the cruise lines accepting that expense. It will be easier to have just one set of rules and that is vaccinated passengers. If the CDC changes their stance and not have separate rules, then everyone goes unrestricted.

[ontheweb]

4 hours ago, Hangman115 said:

 

 

Thank you to all for your prompt replies.

According to multiple libensed and trained medical professionals. Those who follow the science and save people over many years. They all say the natural immunity is much better than the shot. Remember they FOLLOW the SCIENCE.

I have asked three of my personal doctors. My friends asked their doctor who treated them for covid. I also contacted medical professional friends of mine. Licensed trained medical professionals. One even practing medicine and treating patients for over 30 years. They all agree. Natural immunity is more effective than this shot.

 Yes, the shot is good. Good for those who have not had and survived Covid. That is what the science says.

Tank you all again for your prompt replies. 

Note that the 45th President of the US had Covid, but then was vaccinated.

[mjkacmom]

My family all had covid and are vaccinated, my daughter works in healthcare, plus a couple of my kids’ colleges are mandating it. I haven’t heard or read a single thing that says natural immunity lasts, heck no one has said the vaccines last.

[Joebucks]

There's no use debating this. At the moment, there is little to no evidence that people who had COVID are at any risk of getting reinfected while at the same time, littler to no evidence on the vaccine's longevity. It is now "science" to give the vaccine the benefit of the doubt. Yet, as I post this, quite a few people have already opened Google, chomping at the bit to find any iota of an hint that the vaccine is superior in every way, in every instance. Maybe it is the case that the vaccine is superior. Right now, the long-term evidence just isn't there.

[cruisemom42]

5 hours ago, Hangman115 said:

I have asked three of my personal doctors. My friends asked their doctor who treated them for covid. I also contacted medical professional friends of mine. Licensed trained medical professionals. One even practing medicine and treating patients for over 30 years. They all agree. Natural immunity is more effective than this shot.

 

Then they are flying in the face of recommendations of not only the CDC and WHO but also from the American Medical Association and the American College of Physicians.

 

Are you sure they are licensed to practice medicine? 

[Hlitner]

There are still many questions to be answered about natural immunity and vaccine immunity.  Antibody testing has already shown that neither type of immunity is long lasting, but we will just have to wait and see as the length of the various vaccines and natural immunity.  I did see one study that indicated that the antibodies from natural immunity last at least 8 months.  But since many entities (airlines, countries, cruise lines, etc) want some kind of proof of immunity (i.e. vaccine record) the problem is how to satisfy this requirement with natural immunity.  Antibody tests (this is a blood test that must be analyzed in a professional laboratory) have some major limitations.  The Points Guy (he is one of the top commercial airline experts) recently put this to a test and got himself two antibody tests (at two different locations/labs).  One test was positive and one was negative!  

 

I do think there is a good argument that folk should able to use an "appropriate' antibody test in lieu of proof of vaccination.  But until authorities can agree on a low cost fast antibody test that is accurate it is not going to happen.  Just saying you have had COVID and are immune is not going to satisfy any official.

 

Hank

[happy cruzer]

Should a person who has the antibodies from previous infection use up a shot that could be given to someone who hasn't?  I think all these issues and questions being discussed in many threads are not as clear as many think. 

[Flatbush Flyer]

2 hours ago, Honolulu Blue said:

I'm going to tread lightly here...

 

There are a few places around the world that will let people in and/or avoid quarantine if they have either an antibody test or proof of a past positive test.  Unfortunately, I haven't seen any cruise lines accept this alternate proof.

 

I've seen studies that those who have recovered from COVID-19 and received ONE shot get a much bigger boost to their antibody production than people who were never infected and received both shots.  No cruise line accepts this either, but maybe they'll get around to it someday.

Let’s hope not. 
No vaccine (both shots and necessary boosters - TBD)? No Cruise!

[Flatbush Flyer]

6 hours ago, Hangman115 said:

 

 

Thank you to all for your prompt replies.

According to multiple libensed and trained medical professionals. Those who follow the science and save people over many years. They all say the natural immunity is much better than the shot. Remember they FOLLOW the SCIENCE.

I have asked three of my personal doctors. My friends asked their doctor who treated them for covid. I also contacted medical professional friends of mine. Licensed trained medical professionals. One even practing medicine and treating patients for over 30 years. They all agree. Natural immunity is more effective than this shot.

 Yes, the shot is good. Good for those who have not had and survived Covid. That is what the science says.

Tank you all again for your prompt replies. 

Sorry but - you and your docs haven’t got a clue:

https://www.ucsf.edu/news/2021/01/419691/covid-19-vaccine-fact-vs-fiction-expert-weighs-common-fears
 

[TheOldBear]

7 minutes ago, Hlitner said:

There are still many questions to be answered about natural immunity and vaccine immunity.  Antibody testing has already shown that neither type of immunity is long lasting, but we will just have to wait and see as the length of the various vaccines and natural immunity.  I did see one study that indicated that the antibodies from natural immunity last at least 8 months.  But since many entities (airlines, countries, cruise lines, etc) want some kind of proof of immunity (i.e. vaccine record) the problem is how to satisfy this requirement with natural immunity.  Antibody tests (this is a blood test that must be analyzed in a professional laboratory) have some major limitations.  The Points Guy (he is one of the top commercial airline experts) recently put this to a test and got himself two antibody tests (at two different locations/labs).  One test was positive and one was negative!  

 

I do think there is a good argument that folk should able to use an "appropriate' antibody test in lieu of proof of vaccination.  But until authorities can agree on a low cost fast antibody test that is accurate it is not going to happen.  Just saying you have had COVID and are immune is not going to satisfy any official.

 

Hank

Antibodies are part of the immune system's short term response.

 

The 'T' and 'memory B' cells are part of the long term immune response.

 

Google 'sars-cov-1 cross reactivity' and your results should include several papers from the NIH about serologic [t & b cell] responses to corona virii.

 

Two bits on longevity of the 'memory b' cells.

Survivors of sars-cov-1 [the original SARS] have shown strong immune responses / lower infection rates for the current sars-cov-2 [covid-19] virus. That's about 18 years against a similar virus.

Back in the 1990s [need to reach again and bookmark] Spanish Flu survivors still demonstrated cellular reactivity to the virus. Thats 70+ years for the same virus.

 

[autocorrupt keeps changing 'sars' to 'cars']

 

[evandbob]

Hangman (the OP) cites 3 anecdotal cases where professional medical people claim no extra vax is needed if a patient has had COVID.

 

I can cite 5 anecdotal instances of folk I know who have had COVID and were advised to get either of the 2 shot vaccines by their doctors. 

 

I had also heard some reports that claimed COVID patients only needed one shot of either Moderna or Pfizer, but their doctors told them to get the normal 2 step vax for better all around variant protection.

 

Then of course, there's the majority of virologists who also advise that those who had COVID get vaxxed.

 

One can find a minority opinion somewhere amongst the internet, FB or the particular echo chamber they live in, but I prefer to go with the cautious majority recommendations on public health issues.

[CruiserBruce]

44 minutes ago, happy cruzer said:

Should a person who has the antibodies from previous infection use up a shot that could be given to someone who hasn't?  I think all these issues and questions being discussed in many threads are not as clear as many think. 

There is no shortage of vaccine, at least in the US.

[LHT28]

7 hours ago, Hangman115 said:

 

 

Thank you to all for your prompt replies.

According to multiple libensed and trained medical professionals. Those who follow the science and save people over many years. They all say the natural immunity is much better than the shot. Remember they FOLLOW the SCIENCE.

I have asked three of my personal doctors. My friends asked their doctor who treated them for covid. I also contacted medical professional friends of mine. Licensed trained medical professionals. One even practing medicine and treating patients for over 30 years. They all agree. Natural immunity is more effective than this shot.
 

I guess the only way to know if your friends  have immunity is to get tested regularly  to check for antibodies

I have read  that  the natural antibodies  maybe diminish over time   I am not an expert  so I would get regular testing to be sure their antibodies are still effective

As for cruising  if the cruise line are asking fully vaccinated pax/crew at this time  it may be another year or more before that requirement is relaxed

 

Here in Canada our doctors are recommending even those that survived Covid get at least 1 shot of vaccine

 

Do what works best  for you

JMO

[happy cruzer]

1 hour ago, CruiserBruce said:

There is no shortage of vaccine, at least in the US.

True, but aren't we supposed to share with the world 🙂

 

There should be thousands of vaccines available for other countries if we weren't giving them to people who have the antibodies.  Just joking to prove the point that there are so many ways of looking at things.  What we know at anyone time seems to change with more time.

[CruiserBruce]

6 minutes ago, happy cruzer said:

True, but aren't we supposed to share with the world 🙂

 

There should be thousands of vaccines available for other countries if we weren't giving them to people who have the antibodies.  Just joking to prove the point that there are so many ways of looking at things.  What we know at anyone time seems to change with more time.

Depending on what additional producers get approved, we could be providing up to 800 million doses to others. About the same amount we will be using within the US, give or take a few tens of millions.