An Issue with Celebrity’s Plan?

[ATLfuzzy]

Is Desantis, the Florida governor going to block this Edge sailing,  or is this just a scandalous headline?  I would cancel my Symphony sailing tomorrow to book and sail on Edge if I knew it was going to sail. 
 

https://www.miamiherald.com/news/business/tourism-cruises/article251706998.html

Edited May 27, 2021 by ATLfuzzy
Typo

[jagoffee]

No, the Governor of Florida is not going to block the Edge.  Whether the legislation created and approved by the Florida legislature will apply to cruise ship will need to be determined.

Personally I do not think that it will, but many people seem to think so.  I guess we will know fairly soon.

[iamaqt2]

I highly doubt that if the cruise lines are requiring vaccines that DeSantis is going to try and enforce his mandate.  Good luck with that, and they'll move on to other port friendly states.
 

 

[FlyerTalker]

45 minutes ago, cantstopingcruising said:

Doesn't he realize that the huge cruise industry will take their business elsewhere.

 

Yep...those Caribbean cruises from Massachusetts will go over big with the public.

[cscurlock]

16 minutes ago, iamaqt2 said:

I highly doubt that if the cruise lines are requiring vaccines that DeSantis is going to try and enforce his mandate.  Good luck with that, and they'll move on to other port friendly states.
 

 

He will try and it will fail in court.  There needs to be harm first before a lawsuit will be filed in court to overturn this.  So celebrity will ask for vaccination status.  Someone will erupt and get kicked out of the terminal and their money will be refunded which will trigger the fine. At that point the law will be shot down in court and people will realize it was all political posturing.  Same thing for the law against banning people for breaking internet company rules and getting kicked off their platform.  That will get shot down in court as well.  Companies have a 1st amendment right to make the rules to use their private platform.  If you don't like the rules just don't use the platform.  Been that way for a long time because the constitution and previous rulings make it pretty clear.

[gotrichard]

25 minutes ago, cscurlock said:

He will try and it will fail in court.  There needs to be harm first before a lawsuit will be filed in court to overturn this.  So celebrity will ask for vaccination status.  Someone will erupt and get kicked out of the terminal and their money will be refunded which will trigger the fine. At that point the law will be shot down in court and people will realize it was all political posturing.  Same thing for the law against banning people for breaking internet company rules and getting kicked off their platform.  That will get shot down in court as well.  Companies have a 1st amendment right to make the rules to use their private platform.  If you don't like the rules just don't use the platform.  Been that way for a long time because the constitution and previous rulings make it pretty clear.

Will take months in court and there goes the summer sailing season! 

[cscurlock]

Just now, gotrichard said:

Will take months in court and there goes the summer sailing season! 

I doubt it.  Its just fines, they can just keep accruing till the lawsuit is complete.  Again the lawsuit will fail on its merits because the constitution is clear.   At a minimum they can sail out of Louisiana or Texas which don't have such restrictions if it's a cariibbean sailing. 

[Honolulu Blue]

1 hour ago, ATLfuzzy said:

Is Desantis, the Florida governor going to block this Edge sailing,  or is this just a scandalous headline?  I would cancel my Symphony sailing tomorrow to book and sail on Edge if I knew it was going to sail. 
 

https://www.miamiherald.com/news/business/tourism-cruises/article251706998.html

 

The headline seems legit by modern media standards.  No, I can't imagine DeSantis is going to physically block Celebrity from sailing or doing what they feel they need to do.  But the $5k per violation (by almost all the passengers on the ship) is a pretty powerful incentive for Florida to enforce this and a deterrent for other cruise lines to violate the law.  I expect, if a deal is not brokered, for the state to send Celebrity/RCG a bill, and for a lawsuit to be filed to collect when it's not paid.

 

The state could win this.  Technically, no one on the route is requiring vaccines - not the CDC, not the U.S. government, and not any of the ports involved.  Only Celebrity is requiring proof of vaccination, and maybe that's not good enough.  It's something to keep an eye on.

Edited May 27, 2021 by Honolulu Blue

[cscurlock]

13 minutes ago, Honolulu Blue said:

 

The headline seems legit by modern media standards.  No, I can't imagine DeSantis is going to physically block Celebrity from sailing or doing what they feel they need to do.  But the $5k per violation (by almost all the passengers on the ship) is a pretty powerful incentive for Florida to enforce this and a deterrent for other cruise lines to violate the law.  I expect, if a deal is not brokered, for the state to send Celebrity/RCG a bill, and for a lawsuit to be filed to collect when it's not paid.

 

The state could win this.  Technically, no one on the route is requiring vaccines - not the CDC, not the U.S. government, and not any of the ports involved.  Only Celebrity is requiring proof of vaccination, and maybe that's not good enough.  It's something to keep an eye on.

absent an express statement FROM CONGRESS to include a foreign flagged vessel as subject to a federal statute they are exempt from any and all laws that would purport to impact their operations.  So unless congress passes a law stating that cruise lines cant require vaccinations the state of Florida can't make any laws in that regard that will impact the cruise line.

[Blackduck59]

2 hours ago, Blauelini said:

I'll take that bet. It's the law and it's 5k per violation (per passenger asked). Cruiseline cannot ignore state law while in port or in state waters. 

 

State waters??? I don't know for sure but I think you will find that all tidal waters are under federal jurisdiction.

[gotrichard]

Even if they do sail...their terms are insane. This is taken from the ACTUAL booking page for the 1st sailing. You must agree to this and it is legally binding, no matter what their PR says. 

 

COVID-19 Policies and Procedures. Passenger understands that Carrier’s COVID-19 Policies and Procedures may or will include (but are not be limited to): (1) providing an accurate, truthful and complete health questionnaire in a form and containing any and all health or travel-related questions as required by Carrier in its sole discretion, for each Passenger prior to boarding; (2) pre-embarkation and/or periodic testing and temperature checks of each Passenger; (3) modified capacity rules for activities (including but not limited to restaurants, gyms, and entertainment events onboard and for shore excursions) which may limit or eliminate the ability of Passenger to participate in particular activities; (4) mandatory use by each Passenger (except where medically contraindicated) of face coverings in most locations outside of the Passenger’s cabin while onboard, during embarkation, disembarkation and shore excursions; (5) mandatory social distancing of Passengers at any/all times while on board and during embarkation, disembarkation, and shore excursions; (6) additional restrictions during shore excursions depending on local conditions, including but not limited to denial of disembarkation at destinations unless participating in only Carrier-approved shore excursions; (7) mandatory hand-sanitizing by Passenger upon entry or exit of any public areas; (8) confinement of Passengers to cabins, quarantine or emergency disembarkation of Passenger if, in Carrier’s sole discretion, such steps are necessary to prevent or slow the spread of COVID-19; (9) the required completion by Passenger in a timely manner of any written authorizations or consent forms required for Carrier to carry out its COVID-19 Policies and Procedures (including but not limited to medical information, medical privacy, or personal data privacy consent forms), and; (10) other policies and procedures deemed by Carrier in its sole discretion to be necessary to reduce the risk of spread of COVID-19. Passenger acknowledges that: (i) Carrier’s Privacy Policy for Health Protection Measures (“Health Privacy Policy”) is an integral part of Carrier’s COVID-19 Policies and Procedures; (ii) the Health Privacy Policy has been made available to Passenger; and (iii) Passenger agrees to the terms of the Health Privacy Policy.

 

 

 

 

[ipeeinthepool]

6 hours ago, ATLfuzzy said:

Is Desantis, the Florida governor going to block this Edge sailing,  or is this just a scandalous headline?  I would cancel my Symphony sailing tomorrow to book and sail on Edge if I knew it was going to sail. 
 

https://www.miamiherald.com/news/business/tourism-cruises/article251706998.html

 

It will happen.  Cancel the Symphony and book the Edge 

[Miaminice]

2 hours ago, gotrichard said:

Even if they do sail...their terms are insane. This is taken from the ACTUAL booking page for the 1st sailing. You must agree to this and it is legally binding, no matter what their PR says. 

 

COVID-19 Policies and Procedures. Passenger understands that Carrier’s COVID-19 Policies and Procedures may or will include (but are not be limited to): (1) providing an accurate, truthful and complete health questionnaire in a form and containing any and all health or travel-related questions as required by Carrier in its sole discretion, for each Passenger prior to boarding; (2) pre-embarkation and/or periodic testing and temperature checks of each Passenger; (3) modified capacity rules for activities (including but not limited to restaurants, gyms, and entertainment events onboard and for shore excursions) which may limit or eliminate the ability of Passenger to participate in particular activities; (4) mandatory use by each Passenger (except where medically contraindicated) of face coverings in most locations outside of the Passenger’s cabin while onboard, during embarkation, disembarkation and shore excursions; (5) mandatory social distancing of Passengers at any/all times while on board and during embarkation, disembarkation, and shore excursions; (6) additional restrictions during shore excursions depending on local conditions, including but not limited to denial of disembarkation at destinations unless participating in only Carrier-approved shore excursions; (7) mandatory hand-sanitizing by Passenger upon entry or exit of any public areas; (8) confinement of Passengers to cabins, quarantine or emergency disembarkation of Passenger if, in Carrier’s sole discretion, such steps are necessary to prevent or slow the spread of COVID-19; (9) the required completion by Passenger in a timely manner of any written authorizations or consent forms required for Carrier to carry out its COVID-19 Policies and Procedures (including but not limited to medical information, medical privacy, or personal data privacy consent forms), and; (10) other policies and procedures deemed by Carrier in its sole discretion to be necessary to reduce the risk of spread of COVID-19. Passenger acknowledges that: (i) Carrier’s Privacy Policy for Health Protection Measures (“Health Privacy Policy”) is an integral part of Carrier’s COVID-19 Policies and Procedures; (ii) the Health Privacy Policy has been made available to Passenger; and (iii) Passenger agrees to the terms of the Health Privacy Policy.

 

 

 

 

And the problem is?
Did you ever take time to read the fine print before?
With the exception of changes specific to Covid, like masks etc., this is nothing really new or surprising.

[pl281]

1) Here is the bill / statute - https://flsenate.gov/Session/Bill/2021/2006/BillText/er/HTML 

Line 1121 is where the vaccine documentation is

 

2) I believe as someone else post - for the cruise lines,  your are entering into a contract and I think it even spells out where if there is a dispute where it would be resolved. Also in my opinion you are not getting service / entry to a Florida Business - while you are embarking there - you are getting on a foreign flagged ship. 

 

I'm sure this will be challenged at some point - so it will be interesting to see what happens

[JsMom2]

3 hours ago, gotrichard said:

Even if they do sail...their terms are insane. This is taken from the ACTUAL booking page for the 1st sailing. You must agree to this and it is legally binding, no matter what their PR says. 

 

COVID-19 Policies and Procedures. Passenger understands that Carrier’s COVID-19 Policies and Procedures may or will include (but are not be limited to): (1) providing an accurate, truthful and complete health questionnaire in a form and containing any and all health or travel-related questions as required by Carrier in its sole discretion, for each Passenger prior to boarding; (2) pre-embarkation and/or periodic testing and temperature checks of each Passenger; (3) modified capacity rules for activities (including but not limited to restaurants, gyms, and entertainment events onboard and for shore excursions) which may limit or eliminate the ability of Passenger to participate in particular activities; (4) mandatory use by each Passenger (except where medically contraindicated) of face coverings in most locations outside of the Passenger’s cabin while onboard, during embarkation, disembarkation and shore excursions; (5) mandatory social distancing of Passengers at any/all times while on board and during embarkation, disembarkation, and shore excursions; (6) additional restrictions during shore excursions depending on local conditions, including but not limited to denial of disembarkation at destinations unless participating in only Carrier-approved shore excursions; (7) mandatory hand-sanitizing by Passenger upon entry or exit of any public areas; (8) confinement of Passengers to cabins, quarantine or emergency disembarkation of Passenger if, in Carrier’s sole discretion, such steps are necessary to prevent or slow the spread of COVID-19; (9) the required completion by Passenger in a timely manner of any written authorizations or consent forms required for Carrier to carry out its COVID-19 Policies and Procedures (including but not limited to medical information, medical privacy, or personal data privacy consent forms), and; (10) other policies and procedures deemed by Carrier in its sole discretion to be necessary to reduce the risk of spread of COVID-19. Passenger acknowledges that: (i) Carrier’s Privacy Policy for Health Protection Measures (“Health Privacy Policy”) is an integral part of Carrier’s COVID-19 Policies and Procedures; (ii) the Health Privacy Policy has been made available to Passenger; and (iii) Passenger agrees to the terms of the Health Privacy Policy.

 

 

 

 

Apparently you’ve never read your cruise line contract!

[JsMom2]

8 hours ago, Blauelini said:

I'll take that bet. It's the law and it's 5k per violation (per passenger asked). Cruiseline cannot ignore state law while in port or in state waters. 

I doubt they will wait until people are in the terminal to request vaccine status.  This can easily be uploaded during online checkin. And if the request is sent from the Wichita call center….

[Laurab23]

8 hours ago, FlyerTalker said:

 

Yep...those Caribbean cruises from Massachusetts will go over big with the public.

I would book it.

 

[baggal]

8 hours ago, FlyerTalker said:

 

Yep...those Caribbean cruises from Massachusetts will go over big with the public.

Pre-COVID, cruise ships left from NYC and NJ for the Caribbean every week during the winter for 10 day Caribbean cruises.  Even though you spent a total of 3-4 days in less than tropical weather you were still on a CRUISE SHIP.  There's a huge market here in the Northeast for these cruises, especially for people who don't want to fly.  As an example, a family of 4 can drive down from Massachusetts to NYC in under 5 hours.  So yes, cruises from the Northeast are very popular with the public.

[CHEZMARYLOU]

I would sail from New Jersey in a heartbeat.  I'm actually hoping my October cruise gets repositioned.

[Jeremiah1212]

An interesting take that I thought was a bit far fetched initially, but maybe not so much?

 

The law says documentation cannot be ''required'. So don't require it. If the passenger wants to volunteer it, that's their choice. I'll happily show them my card. But if you can't produce a vaccination record at check-in, you're set aside until they verify they have space in that 5% window to allow you on. If that 5% is full? Deny boarding due to the CDC guidance and/or the ticket contract that basically says they can deny you boarding whenever they want.

Edited May 27, 2021 by Jeremiah1212

[Ken the cruiser]

8 minutes ago, Jeremiah1212 said:

An interesting take that I initially thought was a bit far fetched initially, but maybe not so much?

 

The law says documentation cannot be ''required'. So don't require it. If the passenger wants to volunteer it, that's their choice. I'll happily show them my card. But if you can't produce a vaccination record at check-in, you're set aside until they verify they have space in that 5% window to allow you on. If that 5% is full? Deny boarding due to the CDC guidance and/or the ticket contract that basically says they can deny you boarding whenever they want.

I like it!!

[graphicguy]

2 hours ago, Miaminice said:

And the problem is?
Did you ever take time to read the fine print before?
With the exception of changes specific to Covid, like masks etc., this is nothing really new or surprising.

Agreed.  And, I just heard they are dropping the mask mandates for those who are fully vaccinated.  Plus, they’re dropping the age to 12 years old as a requirement for the COVID vaccine.

 

Can you imagine the scene at the port if the National Guard were called when the passengers are asked for proof of the COVID vaccine?  What a nightmare scenario that would be.

[graphicguy]

14 minutes ago, Jeremiah1212 said:

An interesting take that I thought was a bit far fetched initially, but maybe not so much?

 

The law says documentation cannot be ''required'. So don't require it. If the passenger wants to volunteer it, that's their choice. I'll happily show them my card. But if you can't produce a vaccination record at check-in, you're set aside until they verify they have space in that 5% window to allow you on. If that 5% is full? Deny boarding due to the CDC guidance and/or the ticket contract that basically says they can deny you boarding whenever they want.

And, if they are part of that 5%, they’ll be tagged and required to wear a mask per the guidelines.  Won’t that be fun for them.

[paulh84]

Those whole guise of privacy and fairness is absurd. I can't afford to sail in an Iconic Suite? Totally unfair, right? What if I lost my job and can't afford to vacation at all? Totally unfair? 

 

Then take a look at our 'privacy' as you leave for your cruise. 

 

They can subpeona your Uber ride to the airport, your flight information, your credit card and bank information, they know which Starbucks you got coffee at in the airport, video surveillance of you pretty much anywhere, they have your passport information, they know your allergies, they know any special needs or requests, they know your friends who linked their reservation to yours, they know who you slept with along with when you entered and left your cabin.

 

But knowing my vaccine status? That's it! That's where we cross the line! 🙄

 

[K.T.B.]

10 hours ago, FlyerTalker said:

 

Yep...those Caribbean cruises from Massachusetts will go over big with the public.

 

Carnival Liberty had many cruises out of NYC, so there are ports available.