Harmony Backed Into a Pier Docking in Jamaica This Morning

[smokeybandit]

Doesn't matter if it was the pilot or captain or anyone else. The fact is no one on the bridge realized they were way of course.

[joeyancho]

Sounds like someone messed with the rear view window.  It happens in my car all the time.  

[Jimbo]

4 minutes ago, smokeybandit said:

Doesn't matter if it was the pilot or captain or anyone else. The fact is no one on the bridge realized they were way of course.

Someone must have turned down the volume when the back end was getting close and didn't hear the beeps and wasn't using the back up video cameras.

[chengkp75]

2 hours ago, Tagsalong said:

What a video shot!!!.  All speculation is now over.  Nice knowing you Captain.  Hope you like your new job - or retirement.

How wrong you may be.  If it is found that the Captain followed all procedures and protocols outlined in the company's ISM Code (International Safety Management), then no blame will be assigned.  The maritime industry has moved past the "blame" culture of management, and uses the root cause analysis method, where the object is to find the reason for the incident and modify policies and procedures to prevent it from happening again.  It is found that if no blame is assigned, you get more truthful statements from those involved, and a better understanding of the dynamics of the situation.

1 hour ago, Jimbo said:

Might be Suspended Captain now until Further Notice.

See above.

1 hour ago, smokeybandit said:

They were 100 feet off course. Wind wouldn't cause that. Plus there was no evidence they even knew they were off course. They plowed right into it.

You've got good eyes to judge that distance from a phone video.  But anyway, you know what was being discussed both at the aft mooring station and the bridge, to know they had no idea there was a problem, or that they were doing something about it.

[chengkp75]

7 minutes ago, smokeybandit said:

Doesn't matter if it was the pilot or captain or anyone else. The fact is no one on the bridge realized they were way of course.

And you know this how?  From your years of conning large vessels?

[Tagsalong]

17 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

How wrong you may be.

Probably not.  This Captain (Patrick) has made two serious/expensive gaffes this year.  He's toast.

[smokeybandit]

28 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

And you know this how?  From your years of conning large vessels?

 

I know you defend your fellow mariners, but common sense says no one realized what was about to happen or if they did, they made a lot of poor decisions in attempting to dock.

Edited May 27, 2022 by smokeybandit

[Biker19]

3 minutes ago, smokeybandit said:

 

I know you defend your fellow mariners, but common sense says no one realized what was about to happen.

Or, they knew it was about to happen but the controls didn't work?

[Jimbo]

🍿

 

Or, the Sun got in their eyes?

Edited May 27, 2022 by Jimbo

[John&LaLa]

28 minutes ago, Tagsalong said:

Probably not.  This Captain (Patrick) has made two serious/expensive gaffes this year.  He's toast.

 

Was he the Captain for the scrubbed SpaceX launch🤔

[Merion_Mom]

6 hours ago, Saab4444 said:

One thy bring aboard?

The local pilot.

[GJustice]

Did ANYONE get pictures of the damage to the ship and mooring post it hit? The videos are great, but pics of the aftermath would be even better.

[BND]

2 minutes ago, GJustice said:

Did ANYONE get pictures of the damage to the ship and mooring post it hit? The videos are great, but pics of the aftermath would be even better.

There is a video that shows very, very minor cosmetic damage to Harmony.  The mooring point, not so much.

[Ptroxx]

3 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

 

Actually, they do "drive", if by that you mean they "have the conn" (i.e. give orders).  Most places require a pilot by law, and he is given authority to conn the ship by the Captain and by the country.

As a non-employee of the cruise line, the pilot (and they are rarely "Captains") is not allowed to touch any control on the ship.  However, the Captain rarely handles the helm or engine telegraph either, except when closely alongside the dock.  One person on the bridge "has the conn", meaning that person is allowed to give orders to the bridge crew for steering, propulsion, etc.  The pilot and Captain typically work together, as the pilot has local knowledge of the harbor, and the Captain has the knowledge of the ship and its handling characteristics.  The Captain has the responsibility, but whoever has the conn has the authority.  This is just like when the Captain is not on the bridge while underway, the officer of the watch "has the conn" and the authority to handle the ship.

 

Again, many, many pilots "drive" ships they are not familiar with in all sorts of situations.  If the Captain feels the pilot is in error, they can discuss it if there is time, or the Captain can relieve the pilot of the conn and assume it himself.

see I thought they did ….    It’s been bugging me all day.   Lol.  
thank you.   And I trust your answer lol.  

[mac_tlc]

Should be an interesting Captains Corner this week.

 

mac_tlc

[bobmacliberty]

12 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

 

Actually, they do "drive", if by that you mean they "have the conn" (i.e. give orders).  Most places require a pilot by law, and he is given authority to conn the ship by the Captain and by the country.

As a non-employee of the cruise line, the pilot (and they are rarely "Captains") is not allowed to touch any control on the ship.  However, the Captain rarely handles the helm or engine telegraph either, except when closely alongside the dock.  One person on the bridge "has the conn", meaning that person is allowed to give orders to the bridge crew for steering, propulsion, etc.  The pilot and Captain typically work together, as the pilot has local knowledge of the harbor, and the Captain has the knowledge of the ship and its handling characteristics.  The Captain has the responsibility, but whoever has the conn has the authority.  This is just like when the Captain is not on the bridge while underway, the officer of the watch "has the conn" and the authority to handle the ship.

 

Again, many, many pilots "drive" ships they are not familiar with in all sorts of situations.  If the Captain feels the pilot is in error, they can discuss it if there is time, or the Captain can relieve the pilot of the conn and assume it himself.

 

Captain Johnny was asked "who drives when the pilot comes aboard" at a Captain's talk in April.  He said that the pilot is there for local knowledge but that he (the Captain) is always in charge.  I don't remember the exact words that he used but he left me thinking that he always has the conn.  The pilot could tell Johnny to do something but Johnny would make the ultimate call and decide what commands to give.  He may have meant that he always has the responsibility, like you pointed out.  Johnny did say that there were a very few exceptions where the pilot is actually in charge (has responsibility??), like going through the Panama Canal.  He then joked that in many cases the pilot just watches then hands him a bill that he signs and the pilot leaves. 

 

Edit: Does this vary by Master?  Could it be that Captain Johnny has a lot of experience and never wants to give up the conn unless required to by law, whereas a different captain may be more willing to give up the conn to the pilot in certain ports?  

Edited May 27, 2022 by bobmacliberty

[chengkp75]

1 hour ago, bobmacliberty said:

Edit: Does this vary by Master?  Could it be that Captain Johnny has a lot of experience and never wants to give up the conn unless required to by law, whereas a different captain may be more willing to give up the conn to the pilot in certain ports? 

This is certainly the case, which is delineated during the Master/Pilot conference, and even when the pilot has the conn, if the Captain is not real comfortable, he will have the bridge officers look at him after the pilot gives an order, to see if the Captain agrees.  NCL's Captains and Staff Captains on the POA have received pilotage (USCG license to pilot a ship in certain ports) for all the Hawaiian ports, so that they don't have to have a pilot ever.

 

In the Panama Canal, or when a ship is entering/leaving a drydock, the Canal Authority or the shipyard assume full financial responsibility for the ship, so their pilot/docking master takes the conn.  The Captain still retains the authority to relieve the Panama Canal pilot, but if he does, the ship will be stopped in the Canal for an investigation before it can proceed, so this is extremely rare.

[CruisinFinsUp]

Captain Johnny is on vacation per his Twitter feed.  @HarleyCaptain
 

So another Captain was on the bridge.   

[Ptroxx]

I seem to always get lucky and have a balcony right on top of the door that they use to jump aboard from the pilot boat.  Always fun to watch them try and get close enough to make the transfer.   

[Tagsalong]

14 hours ago, John&LaLa said:

 

Was he the Captain for the scrubbed SpaceX launch🤔

Yes

[Oceansaway17]

15 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

How wrong you may be.  If it is found that the Captain followed all procedures and protocols outlined in the company's ISM Code (International Safety Management), then no blame will be assigned.  The maritime industry has moved past the "blame" culture of management, and uses the root cause analysis method, where the object is to find the reason for the incident and modify policies and procedures to prevent it from happening again.  It is found that if no blame is assigned, you get more truthful statements from those involved, and a better understanding of the dynamics of the situation.

 

this is good to hear because everywhere the blame game is on the rise.  Things happen on ships and the poor captain can not take the blame if he did follow procedures.

And make note, the Captain was Johnny who has many years with the company and was part of early design and testing teams for Voyager and Freedom class ships.   

[Oceansaway17]

29 minutes ago, CruisinFinsUp said:

Captain Johnny is on vacation per his Twitter feed.  @HarleyCaptain
 

So another Captain was on the bridge.   

oh I stand corrected then I thought he was still on.

[not-enough-cruising]

34 minutes ago, CruisinFinsUp said:

Captain Johnny is on vacation per his Twitter feed.  @HarleyCaptain
 

So another Captain was on the bridge.   

Anyone know when he returns to Harmony?

[mac_tlc]

8 minutes ago, not-enough-cruising said:

Anyone know when he returns to Harmony?

I don’t know the exact date but he said he would be there for our 8/14 sailing, and I believe at least the prior week.

 

mac_tlc

[Ptroxx]

9 minutes ago, not-enough-cruising said:

Anyone know when he returns to Harmony?

I beat once they fix the ship.  Lol.  JK.  
 

I’ve been hunting all over and can’t find any pics of the damage.