So called “Service Dogs” on board ships

[Miki_moto]

10 minutes ago, knittinggirl said:

I would think the dogs would be charged a full fare like passengers.  But I guess they could get in under the kids cruise free promotions.  But then they're not kids . . .

Service dogs are considered medical equipment and I depend on my dog as much as I depend on my wheelchair, and I don’t expect to pay to bring that along.

 

It it would be easier if service dogs were universally certified like they are in British Columbia, Canada.  I know the arguments why they aren’t but it makes things so straightforward.  If anyone questions me I just provide my ID.

Edited October 11, 2019 by Miki_moto

[knittinggirl]

23 minutes ago, Miki_moto said:

Service dogs are considered medical equipment and I depend on my dog as much as I depend on my wheelchair, and I don’t expect to pay to bring that along.

 

It it would be easier if service dogs were universally certified like they are in British Columbia, Canada.  I know the arguments why they aren’t but it makes things so straightforward.  If anyone questions me I just provide my ID.

Do you have a special ID to travel w/ the service animal?

 

I'm terribly afraid of dogs, and think it will latch onto my ankle and not let go.   DH thinks if the dog bites, there's something really wrong w/ the dog.

 

 

Edited October 11, 2019 by knittinggirl

[3rdGenCunarder]

44 minutes ago, knittinggirl said:

Do you have a special ID to travel w/ the service animal?

 

I'm terribly afraid of dogs, and think it will latch onto my ankle and not let go.   DH thinks if the dog bites, there's something really wrong w/ the dog.

 

 

 

Sadly, in the US you can buy all kinds of ID and service dog vests on ebay and it means nothing. We don't have a universal or national registry/certification of service dogs. For cruises, there is paperwork that a vet must provide about vaccinations, etc because the dog is traveling to other countries. 

 

I'm inclined to side with your DH. Most dogs don't bite unless provoked. Service dogs are trained to be calm in all sorts of environments. I live near Morristown, home of the Seeing Eye. Trainers are always out and about with the dogs getting them accustomed to new places and new people. 

 

Edited October 11, 2019 by 3rdGenCunarder

[TiogaCruiser]

3 hours ago, Miki_moto said:

It’s also good for constipation!

 

If your dog has diarrhea, the soluble fiber in canned pumpkin will help absorb the excess water, resulting in firmer stool. For a pet that is constipated, the high water and fiber content in the pumpkin will help add bulk and soften the stool, acting as a natural laxative and making the stool easier to pass. - 1800petmeds.com

 

Feeding your dog a little bit of pumpkin with his food is a great way to prevent and cure constipation. Pumpkin is high in water content and a great source of fiber. You can either puree fresh pumpkinor use canned pureed pumpkin.  - dogtime.com

Thanks for the explanation. I’m going to keep a can on hand - just in case.

Thankfully our 115lb “Golden Retriever” has not had those issues yet.😳

(I would say “thank God for small miracles, but, you get the idea....)

 

And now, back to our main event.

[TAD2005]

Part of the problem of people trying to quality their dog as a "comfort animal" is the airlines insane policy of charging anywhere between $100 and $250 EACH WAY to carry a small pet in the cabin with you, in a soft side carrier.   Sometimes the cost of the round trip fees for the pet exceed the fare that the human pays, and the dog doesn't even get a Coke and a bag of chips !!   

Also, many planes have metal boxes under the seat in front of you for the in-flight entertainment system.   This metal box will prevent you from placing your pet carrier under the seat in front of you, as required, and you have no idea if the seat you select has that obstruction until you board.   Even Seat Guru dot com doesn't inform you of obstructions under a seat in front of you.   The pet carrier with the pet count as your ONE allowed carry-on item, so on some airlines, if you also have a carry-on with a laptop, medicine, etc, you have to pay for the 2nd carry-on.

All of these issues are part of the reason that many people try to sneak their pets on planes as comfort animals to bypass the expense and hassles of a pet carrier.

[GUT2407]

3 hours ago, Miki_moto said:

Service dogs are considered medical equipment and I depend on my dog as much as I depend on my wheelchair, and I don’t expect to pay to bring that along.

 

It it would be easier if service dogs were universally certified like they are in British Columbia, Canada.  I know the arguments why they aren’t but it makes things so straightforward.  If anyone questions me I just provide my ID.

With that I totally agree, I really struggle with the whole no certification concept, surely most service dogs come from an accredited organisation and could be automatically certified, and those that are self trained could be required to pass a pretty basic obedience test, sit down, stay, food refusal and heel perhaps at a very small charge. In fact I would suggest most obedeniece trial groups would be happy to be involved and even offer classes as they already do for the general population.

[SetAnOpenCourse]

28 minutes ago, TAD2005 said:

Part of the problem of people trying to quality their dog as a "comfort animal" is the airlines insane policy of charging anywhere between $100 and $250 EACH WAY to carry a small pet in the cabin with you, in a soft side carrier. 

 ...

It seems that it would be better if they charged less, or much much more.  I don’t see viability in the growing trend of more animals on planes and cruises.

Edited October 11, 2019 by SetAnOpenCourse

[slidergirl]

22 hours ago, knittinggirl said:

I would think the dogs would be charged a full fare like passengers.  But I guess they could get in under the kids cruise free promotions.  But then they're not kids . . .

I don't know if the cruise industry's version of ADA is like the ADA  the respect.  At a hotel, we can charge a nightly rate for the family pet and set a size/weight limit.  But, we cannot charge or have a size/weight limit for a service animal. 

[chengkp75]

3 hours ago, slidergirl said:

I don't know if the cruise industry's version of ADA is like the ADA  the respect.  At a hotel, we can charge a nightly rate for the family pet and set a size/weight limit.  But, we cannot charge or have a size/weight limit for a service animal. 

Absolutely right.  A service dog is a medical appliance, and you cannot charge for that, any more than for a wheelchair, as noted above.

[kazu]

A true service dog is a gem.  They are the epitome of a perfect dog.  They are a non issue to anyone as they are “working”.

 

The phoney one is a plague - unruly, unbehaved and doesn’t know what working is.

 

I recall one time I was at a hotel when a man had a dog with the service dog vest.  The dog would barely sit still and was barking to beat the band.  He invited me to pet it.  It’s one of the biggest no no’s of service dogs.  I had to bite my tongue to keep from saying what I wanted.  But, I refused the offer to pat saying I realized his dog was “working”.  

My kazu, although not certified was the caliber of a working dog.  I could take him to the busiest mall to help raise money for the SPCA with escalators, elevators and people coming up stairs and he would just sit perfectly.  People WERE allowed to give him a pat or treat if they made a donation and he was temporarily released.

 

As good as he was, he would never go with me on a cruise.  Unless the dog is really “needed” I think it’s cruel to them.  I know he was much happier at his home away from home with his brother and sister 😉  and so are my two M & M dogs now 😉 

[lindaler]

2 hours ago, slidergirl said:

I don't know if the cruise industry's version of ADA is like the ADA  the respect.  At a hotel, we can charge a nightly rate for the family pet and set a size/weight limit.  But, we cannot charge or have a size/weight limit for a service animal. 

Why would you want to charge someone for their service dog when without that dog they can not even get out and enjoy life like you or most people do? It's like a piece of medical equipment for them that allows a quality of life that is nearer to normal like a wheel chair or hearing aids.  None of us want to "need"  our medical equipment but without our service dogs we would be lost and to know that you are mad that you can not charge us really is upsetting.

[GUT2407]

4 hours ago, lindaler said:

Why would you want to charge someone for their service dog when without that dog they can not even get out and enjoy life like you or most people do? It's like a piece of medical equipment for them that allows a quality of life that is nearer to normal like a wheel chair or hearing aids.  None of us want to "need"  our medical equipment but without our service dogs we would be lost and to know that you are mad that you can not charge us really is upsetting.

Because it seems many here don’t understand, or maybe don’t want to understand, what service dog can do for someone.

 

But then I find that elsewhere to, and so many people think the only service dog is a seeing eye dog.

[RuthC]

5 hours ago, lindaler said:

Why would you want to charge someone for their service dog when without that dog they can not even get out and enjoy life like you or most people do? It's like a piece of medical equipment for them that allows a quality of life that is nearer to normal like a wheel chair or hearing aids.  None of us want to "need"  our medical equipment but without our service dogs we would be lost and to know that you are mad that you can not charge us really is upsetting.

I didn't read any of that in slidergirl's post. I read her reporting facts of what is and is not allowed in land based hotels. Nowhere in her post did I read an opinion that she wanted to have a charge for service animals, nor did I read anger in her post. 

I have read many posts from slidergirl, and find she is not at all reluctant to post an opinion; she does not hold back. If she were posting an opinion that she wants to charge, or is mad that she can't, it would have been crystal clear. 

[lindaler]

7 hours ago, slidergirl said:

 At a hotel, we can charge a nightly rate for the family pet and set a size/weight limit.  But, we cannot charge or have a size/weight limit for a service animal. 

I do apologize if I read this wrong. I thought she was saying it wasn’t fair to not be able to charge for a sd. I just got back from a trip where I ran into that kind of anger because I could bring my dog into a restaurant and they had to leave their dogs in the car. 

Edited October 13, 2019 by lindaler
Spelling

[RuthC]

7 hours ago, slidergirl said:

I don't know if the cruise industry's version of ADA is like the ADA  the respect.

Even though not in the form of a question, the comments preceding the sentence you quoted could certainly be interpreted as a question. That is how I read it: "Is there a difference between the cruise industry's version ... ." 
I don't expect precise English in posts on a message board, and read the post simply as imprecise. 

[slidergirl]

1 hour ago, RuthC said:

Even though not in the form of a question, the comments preceding the sentence you quoted could certainly be interpreted as a question. That is how I read it: "Is there a difference between the cruise industry's version ... ." 
I don't expect precise English in posts on a message board, and read the post simply as imprecise. 

It was a major mistype on my part.  I meant to have a complete sentence of "I don't know...with respect to service animals onboard."   Thank you for pointing it out for me.  I try my best to type correctly.   

 

For the posts who thought I was being critical:  I absolutely was not.   I was merely stating the law that we cannot charge for a service animal staying at the hotel.  I do not want to charge for a service animal.   If some unscrupulous hotelier wanted to charge, he CANNOT charge.  

 

Now, charging for small children - I say an additional $100/child under 12...  I DO NOT like getting the call at 10:45pm (after our housekeeping has gone home) that the bed linens need to be changed because the little one puked or peed on the bed.  Guess who gets to do that cleanup?  Yup.  

[knittinggirl]

We had a lady give a speech about see eye dogs in our Toastmaster's Club, and she said, same as Kazu, petting a dog while on duty was a huge no-no.  If they're wearing the jacket, they're on duty, and it can really confuse them.  Now, if they're not wearing the jacket, then it's o.k. to pet them.

 

Not sure how many hours a service dog is "on duty" before it must take a break.

 

We had a lady at our local office depot that had a dog w/ the jacket, and she said it was for her asthma.  She brought the dog with her when she showed me where one of the products was.  Strange enough, I don't know what happened, because I never saw her after that.

Edited October 13, 2019 by knittinggirl

[GUT2407]

16 minutes ago, knittinggirl said:

We had a lady give a speech about see eye dogs in our Toastmaster's Club, and she said, same as Kazu, petting a dog while on duty was a huge no-no.  If they're wearing the jacket, they're on duty, and it can really confuse them.  Now, if they're not wearing the jacket, then it's o.k. to pet them.

 

Not sure how many hours a service dog is "on duty" before it must take a break.

 

We had a lady at our local office depot that had a dog w/ the jacket, and she said it was for her asthma.  She brought the dog with her when she showed me where one of the products was.  Strange enough, I don't know what happened, because I never saw her after that.

Another who made assumptions she shouldn’t have made, indeed should have known better, not all working dogs wear a jacket, there is absolutely no need that they do so. Indeed I have never seen a seeing eye dog with a jacket as far as I can recall, for that particular service the “give away” is the particular harness.

[Copper10-8]

I've always gone by the general rule that you don't pet any dog you don't know and that's with a handler and/or owner, regardless of vest wearing, without first asking permission of that handler/owner. I was a police K-9 handler for five years and that rule definitely applied to my/our dog(s), but it should also apply to any dog you don't personally know 

[Caribbean Chris]

7 hours ago, knittinggirl said:

We had a lady give a speech about see eye dogs in our Toastmaster's Club, and she said, same as Kazu, petting a dog while on duty was a huge no-no.  If they're wearing the jacket, they're on duty, and it can really confuse them.  Now, if they're not wearing the jacket, then it's o.k. to pet them.

 

Not sure how many hours a service dog is "on duty" before it must take a break.

 

So true that guide dogs should not be petted unless the dog is off duty and the handler has made the offer.

 

It’s actually the harness with hard metal handle that signifies “on duty” to the guide dog himself. My friends with visual impairment remove the harness when the dog is going to be offered treats and petting, or to relax on a bed in the handler’s office. I recently observed a handler on HAL who removed it before his dog hopped in the relief box. and as he placed the dog beneath his chair during a show in the Music Walk. His dog knew he was off duty.

 

Other types of assistance dogs (not guide dogs) wear a jacket (no handle) to signify “on duty” to the public.   Hearing dogs like mine actually are on duty 24/7 - for example, my dog is trained to wake up and alert me to a door knock even at 2 a.m. - jacket or no jacket.

 

I don’t mind being approached with a polite request, and often will command the dog to sit, and then  “say hello.” I enjoy talking to people about the dog when we’re just relaxing in a lounge on a cruise. The key is that any handler is able to retain control of the dog and situation, reinforcing the dog’s training.

 

I would never approach a guide dog in harness. And anyone with a service dog can tell you stories of people coming up from behind and grabbing at the dog, trying to pet it, a distraction which could be dangerous for a blind person. 

 

 

 

Edited October 13, 2019 by Caribbean Chris

[3rdGenCunarder]

9 hours ago, Copper10-8 said:

I've always gone by the general rule that you don't pet any dog you don't know and that's with a handler and/or owner, regardless of vest wearing, without first asking permission of that handler/owner. I was a police K-9 handler for five years and that rule definitely applied to my/our dog(s), but it should also apply to any dog you don't personally know 

 

Excellent rule. I grew up around big dogs and because I loved them so much my parents realized I needed to know that I couldn't run up to any dog and assume it was my friend  (especially after I tried to run into the ring at a dog show to be with what I somehow thought was our airedale).  I always ask if a dog is friendly or if it's OK for me to greet it. And even with a friendly dog, I offer the back of my hand for it to sniff first because that's how I was taught to introduce myself to a dog. 

 

3 hours ago, Caribbean Chris said:

 

So true that guide dogs should not be petted unless the dog is off duty and the handler has made the offer.

 

It’s actually the harness with hard metal handle that signifies “on duty” to the guide dog himself. My friends with visual impairment remove the harness when the dog is going to be offered treats and petting, or to relax on a bed in the handler’s office. I recently observed a handler on HAL who removed it before his dog hopped in the relief box. and as he placed the dog beneath his chair during a show in the Music Walk. His dog knew he was off duty.

 

Other types of assistance dogs (not guide dogs) wear a jacket (no handle) to signify “on duty” to the public.   Hearing dogs like mine actually are on duty 24/7 - for example, my dog is trained to wake up and alert me to a door knock even at 2 a.m. - jacket or no jacket.

 

I don’t mind being approached with a polite request, and often will command the dog to sit, and then  “say hello.” I enjoy talking to people about the dog when we’re just relaxing in a lounge on a cruise. The key is that any handler is able to retain control of the dog and situation, reinforcing the dog’s training.

 

I would never approach a guide dog in harness. And anyone with a service dog can tell you stories of people coming up from behind and grabbing at the dog, trying to pet it, a distraction which could be dangerous for a blind person. 

 

 

I understanding a kid not recognizing the difference between a working dog and a pet, but I'm surprised at how many adults don't know that you shouldn't pet a dog that's on duty. 

 

A neighbor had a large dog (Irish wolfhound, IIRC) that was very protective of her. When she walked him and someone wanted to say hello, she would tell him to sit. That was their code for "this person is okay." 

 

[3rdGenCunarder]

Article in the travel section of the newspaper today about new rules for emotional support dogs on airplanes. The DOT is starting to look at ways to reduce the number of "incidents" with dogs, and they are encouraging airlines to use these new rules. I don't know if cruise lines will look at these rules and do anything with them. 

 

According to this article, 481,000 emotional support dogs flew in 2016. In 2017 that number had grown to 751,000. On average, that's over 2000 times every day! 

 

I was surprised that the DOT considers an emotional support animal to be a kind of service animal. I think that muddies the distinction. 

 

One rule is that the airline may refuse to allow any animal (service or support) onto a plane if it is too large to be accommodated or too young (under 4 months old), or if it is disruptive or a safety risk. Of course, the 4 month rule doesn't matter to a real service animal, as no animal that young is ready to go to work.

 

The rest of the rules/guidelines were about emotional support, not true service animals. What surprised me is that the article said that the airline is not required to fly an emotional support animal unless the passenger provides documentation of their need. This one surprised me, as I thought medical privacy rules would prohibit asking. So I went to DOT and yes, this says the airline may ask. 

 

https://www.transportation.gov/individuals/aviation-consumer-protection/service-animals-including-emotional-support-animals

 

[chengkp75]

 

2 hours ago, 3rdGenCunarder said:

I was surprised that the DOT considers an emotional support animal to be a kind of service animal. I think that muddies the distinction. 

It's not that the DOT decided to consider ESA's as "essential" to travel, it is that the "Air Carriers Accessibility Act" (AACA) allows ESA's to travel in the airplane cabin.  Probably something the DOT did not want.  Congress frequently muddies the distinction.

[knittinggirl]

No worries.  I'm not going to pet any dog with or without harness. 

 

I hate it when dogs jump in my lap or go for my legs.    Dogs used to always jump in my mother's lap, and the owner just sat there.

[knittinggirl]

1 minute ago, chengkp75 said:

 

It's not that the DOT decided to consider ESA's as "essential" to travel, it is that the "Air Carriers Accessibility Act" (AACA) allows ESA's to travel in the airplane cabin.  Probably something the DOT did not want.  Congress frequently muddies the distinction.

 Always wondered how safe it was for animals to fly in the cargo hold of a plane.  I wondered if they could get by w/ less oxygen than humans.